Detroit Lubricator minutiae
 

Ok, a friend and I are looking to find some answers about these carbs. Specifically the early ones, the "elbow carbs". Why do we care--I guess it is just inquiring minds want to know!
Engine 18-I has one that on the bowl cover plate has a patent # 9000. As changes were made the last digit changed. We have in hand examples of elbow carbs with the last digit being 5. Our curiosity is what changed between 9000 and 9004? With service notes and direct observations, we pretty much have the changes identified between 5 and 6 and on. The letter before the 900x is the month, A=Jan etc.
IF ANYONE has one of these early examples with a last digit 1-4 we would LOVE to see pictures of it from all sides. Somewhere in this sequence the round lever on the passenger side changed to one that is flat, and the round lever had a guide that disappeared when the lever turned flat.
None of this is to brag to some judge or anything like that. Just plain curiosity. We also know that stuff got mixed and matched over the years.
Dave Cole never wrote a DL article that I could find and David Rehor's fabulous books don't cover the carbs in the kind of detail we are looking at. I understand why that is. Who Cares about something few are likely to ever see? All of this comes from one of us (not me) building a flange block display engine with all the early stuff like 4 bolt distributor (which is a whole 'nother story)
So if any of the heavy hitters out there that has one of these things in a display case, please consider shooting pictures of it so we can see what changed. Maybe the changes were inside like when the accelerator piston changed diameters but again, we are only looking for pictures of carbs 9001 to 9004 patent numbers, we have 5 and higher up into the 33s as far as 11.
If you have a DL, go look at the plate on the top and see what you have.
Thanks in advance for helping us gain useless knowledge!
You can PM me if you want to send pictures to an email account.

Re: Detroit Lubricator minutiae
 

If you study the illustration below (from the Service Bulletins and reprinted in the book) you can pretty much figure out the evolution of the carburetor that took place in a very short time (likely all in the month of March and early days of April, 1932). Not shown is the round accelerator pump rod that you mention, but it is implied given the notes regarding its replacement and the replacement of the other parts that changed to accommodate the stamped 18-9578 kicker (Ford terminology).

The die cast center section was changed several times during that evolution which is also inferred in the illustration (the change to the accelerator pump within), the change in the float valving, and the incorporation of the spring-loaded ratchet that was attached in the second version of the four float bowl cover versions (the first had none). (The third version of the float bowl covers is not shown; it was the same as the fourth version except it lacked the riveted on curved baffle on the underside of the cover.) Which of these changes correspond to the 9001 to 9004 progression of patent numbers, I know not.

A couple of years ago a cutaway example of the first version of the carburetor showed up on ebay. Likely it was one of a kind, at least in terms of survivors. I have photos of it, but I'm away from the computer that has them in its files.

The photo below is of the carburetor on the flange block engine in my early phaeton. While I do not remember what the patent number is on the float bowl cover, I'm pretty sure that the letter on the cover is 'C' for March, which makes sense as the engine was built on April 4th. Note that the float bowl cover is the third version mentioned above, which leads credence to my theory that most of the changes to the carburetors took place in March and early April. (It is only a theory as I have no documentation, but then I doubt that such documentation survived.)

Re: Detroit Lubricator minutiae
 

I guess you have searched at the USPO since you have the patent numbers.

Re: Detroit Lubricator minutiae
 

Thanks David. You will probably be hanging out in the Keys until the snow ends up at your other place!
We have a May bowl cover with no detents in the choke lever and other May covers that do. Somewhere in the service bulletins we saw where it said that changed in August so that is probably a mistake or typo.
Looking forward to seeing your cut away pictures and maybe close ups of the March carb and what # it was.
I hadn't thought of maybe some of the 1,2,3,4 changes were done en mass to prevent constant retooling the manufacturing. Maybe some of those numbers only exist on the engineering drawings and not on the float bowls. We are inquiring with the Detroit Public Library as they have records from DL from the 1800s until at least 1920. Maybe they have up into the 30s. Also going to check with U.M. library special collections. Can't hurt to ask.
We figured it was a bad sign that Dave Cole didn't snoop this out!
Thanks again,
Mike

Re: Detroit Lubricator minutiae
 

d r,
I have 3 DL carbs in the shop right now....2 with the exposed throttle shaft on the
side opp the linkage and 1 with that end closed. I have discussed these carbs and how best to get them to perform correctly thru the idle, driving and power range with
mixed ,at best, results. The other day I came across an ancient DYKEs Carburetion book and found an absolute excruciatingly detailed break down of the Ford DL carb....great phantom drawings showing fuel path during the 3 cycles. I'm guessing
this was written in perhaps 1934-5 or 6.
An aside here, the lingo and phrasing was certainly dated and reminded me of
listening to my grandfather 70 years ago.
My intention is to have this 4 page composition with drawings enlarged for

easier study. Anyone here interested ? I may not be able to do enlarge copies pro bono but happily at cost.
Charlie ny

Re: Detroit Lubricator minutiae
 

Charlie,


I would be interested in copies of what you have.


Sal

Re: Detroit Lubricator minutiae
 

I too would be interested. I don't have any running on either of my 32s or 33 but am intrigued by the "excruciating detail". Might shed some light on what I am trying to figure out sequence wise. PM me when you do this and I can Paypal you the money.
Sounds like you have 1 32 and 2 33s in the shop.

Re: Detroit Lubricator minutiae
 

Charlie,


Put me down for a copy, please. I'd gladly reimburse you for any expenses.


I agree with Mike that it sounds like you have two '33s and one '32, at least terms of the bases. Only late '32 and all '33 upper die castings have a lip to prevent the air cleaner from being mounted too low and '33 center sections have a larger diameter accelerator pump bore. (But then you probably know all that). Over the years, the re-builders mixed the bases with '32 throttle shafts showing up frequently in '33 bases.

Re: Detroit Lubricator minutiae
 

Put me down for a copy Charlie , I can post you money for the expenses. I was in touch with you through Emails a little while ago about these carburetors. Ian S N.Z.

Re: Detroit Lubricator minutiae
 

Charlie,
PLEASE PLEASE!! put me down for a copy! Thanks!

Re: Detroit Lubricator minutiae
 

I would like a copy also. Thank You Charlie

Re: Detroit Lubricator minutiae
 

Guys,
I will be at Office Max on Monday morning.


Charlie ny

Re: Detroit Lubricator minutiae
 

I found the cutaway photos after all.

Note that the center die casting appears to be slightly bent downward on the fuel bowl side. Perhaps someone dropped it along the way. Note also that the patent numbers are quite different from those cited above.

Re: Detroit Lubricator minutiae
 

WOW David, that is fabulous! That patent # appears to be alpha O 32900 The first character is clearly different from the last 2 so it is an alpha O not a zero. I wonder if that was from a Ford cutaway display engine/chassis or a DL cutaway for their own use? It never ceases to amaze me what shows up! Thanks a million for sharing those pictures!!

Re: Detroit Lubricator minutiae
 

I think that the patent numbers are the eight digit ones at the top and those five numbers and one letter below are not patent numbers, but rather the "type" number.

Re: Detroit Lubricator minutiae
 

David,
The 3 DL carbs in my shop have a flat steel linkage between the acc pump
plunger and the throttle arm and this flat steel linkage is configured differently than
the round more or less vertical linkage in your photo....any idea what it is that I have?
The one on my test motor has a .625 acc pump piston the other 2 are about .020
smaller as are the bores they fit in.




Charlie ny

Re: Detroit Lubricator minutiae
 

Charlie,


The larger diameter pump piston and accompanying larger bore center section are the '33 version.



The flat linkage between the throttle shaft and the plunger is characteristic of all but the extremely early '32 version (the cutaway version). Even the very early carburetor in my earlier photo (post #2) has the flat linkage

Re: Detroit Lubricator minutiae
 

Charlie
I would like to get a copy of the DL info you speak of so please add my name to the list!! Let me know the cost and I will get the $$$ in the mail.

Re: Detroit Lubricator minutiae
 

Charlie I’d like to get a copy also. Do you have any parts or the tools?

Re: Detroit Lubricator minutiae
 

Charlie:

I am another person interested in "your copy" and put me down as well! I have 2 DL's.

Henry