Radial tires again
 

I just installed a set of American Classic 4.75/5.00 radial tires. My old Firestones tires were getting worn. The old tires wore perfectly even. The A never drifted or pulled either way. So I decided to bite the bull it and spend $$$ for new tires. The installation went very well. Went for a ride and it’s pulling to the right (dam it) I checked the toe in last year. I checked the toe in today and it’s off. It’s off so much that I have to remove the tie rod link and give it a turn on the left side. Have you ever heard of such of a thing? The old tires wore great :confused:

Re: Radial tires again
 

When you/I put new tires on its best to due an alignment !

Re: Radial tires again
 

Why would you remove the tie rod link - which I assume is the ball coupling at one end? The toe in is adjusted by turning the toe rod one way or the other. There is a right hand thread one end and a left hand one on the other. As for pulling right now, I also assume the tyre pressures are even?

Re: Radial tires again
 

Is there such a thing as radial tire pull on these type of tires? I know occasionally we would have move tires around to prevent it.

Re: Radial tires again
 

I know this is splitting hairs but with excessive toe-in and only the driver in the car while test driving, there is more weight on the drivers side front tire. It would make sense that it is pulling to the right. The left front tire with more weight on it is pushing the car to the right with excessive toe-in.

Dial the toe-in to about 1/16" and try it again. As Synchro909 said, loosen the tie rod end clamp bolts and rotate the actual tie rod only as the ends have left and right threads. It won't take much rotation of the rod to make a correction. 1/16" may be a bit light but your test drive will guide you as to the correct toe-in.

Before our last long road trip, I replaced my tires and wheels from 21" bias ply to 16" radials of equal diameter to the original tires on the rear and slightly smaller on the front. It became much more reactive to the steering wheel but less reactive to changing road surfaces. It took a bit of driving to get used to the difference.
Good Day!

Re: Radial tires again
 

I appreciate all the ideas but when I set the toe in on the LF to the the 1/6 that I need. Then I check the right front I have a 0 tie in. When I turn the tie rod to get 1/6 the LF becomes out of Specs. That’s why I think I have to turn the tie rod end.

Re: Radial tires again
 

How are you checking your toe in. You don't do one wheel at a time. Toe in is measured by measuring the distance between the tires in front of the axle and then behind the axle. The measurement should be 1/16 inch shorter in front of the axle. Take the measurements up about a foot on the tire.

Re: Radial tires again
 

If you are getting a difference in toe in - left to right the car must be on the ground or floor. The correct procedure to check/adjust toe in will not allow a difference from one side to the other due the to the mechanics of the steering system - the wheels need to be off the floor.

John

Re: Radial tires again
 

[QUOTE=aermotor;1900756]If you are getting a difference in toe in - left to right the car must be on the ground or floor. The correct procedure to check/adjust toe in will not allow a difference from one side to the other due the to the mechanics of the steering system - the wheels need to be off the floor.

John[/QUOTE

John, The instructions I have with my Ideal Wheel Aligning Gauge by Wheel-A-Matic Corp, instructs to have the weight of the car on the wheels.

Cut from the instructions.
WA0361 & WA0374 Toe Measuring Gauge Instructions
TO ASSEMBLE: – The RED screw, 2 1/2 inches from the scale is for packing only. When removing it hold some pressure on the end of the gauge to prevent the spring from snapping out. No tools are required for this.
Depress push button and insert tube into larger one. Holes are used to adjust for different width vehicle. The additional button and set of holes are for wide vehicles.

TO USE: – Pull vehicle forward at least 3 feet before placing gauge in position. Press out on front of wheels to take up play. Set the gauge in position between the tires at the front of wheels, with ends bearing on tires. Chains must just touch floor. Spring pressure will hold gauge in position on tires. Set movable scale so pointer is at Zero.
Leaving gauge between wheels, move vehicle forward until gauge comes into position at back of wheels with chains just touching floor. Pointer will then show amount of Toe-in.
To clean sliding tube, remove by taking out screw.


Good Day!

Re: Radial tires again
 

[QUOTE=Dave in MN;1900768]The car is on the ground. I switched the to front tires. Tomorrow I’ll go for a ride and hopefully my problem will go away

Re: Radial tires again
 

John, you didn't answer this question. I have always done the alignment (setting the toe in) using an alignment tool like the Ideal tool that was mentioned. I have an original Dubie alignment tool that works like the Ideal.


I have no idea how you would adjust each wheel separately.

Re: Radial tires again
 

Even if you could check each side independently, the two are forever related by the tie rod. One side reads 1/16" and the other reads 0 then the difference between the two would be 1/32" toe in.

I would raise the front and check for any sign of loose spindle bearings first & foremost. I'd then rotate each wheel and check for any sign of wobble due to a bent wheel. This kind of stuff can make it hell to try and properly adjust the toe in.

The caster and camber are harder to adjust without axle or wishbone bending tools but radials should do OK with factory settings as long as the axle & radius rod are still in good condition.

Re: Radial tires again
 

[QUOTE=Dave in MN;1900768]I just borrowed Ideal aligning gauge. I’ll get on level ground and do it the right way tomorrow

Re: Radial tires again
 

I use 2 framing squares. Park on concrete, one square against the inside of the sidewall of each front tire with the long leg of each square on the floor and pointed at each other. I usually do the front side of the axle first, for no particular reason.


Just measure the distance across the squares, outside to outside. Move the squares to the rear sides of the tires and compare your numbers. You can also pick a place on the tread to measure from , just be certain you measure to the same place on the front and back side of the tires.


I like to move the car backward a few inches and then back to the same place without moving the steering wheel to measure after I make an adjustment to the length of the tie rod. That way I'm sure I've eliminated the springiness/tension of the rubber against the floor giving me a false reading.


Using squares lets you measure at spindle height on any car no matter what the engineers put between the tires.

Re: Radial tires again
 

Oh yeah, if you're working by yourself, it's handy to clamp a 1 x 4 or a piece of metal flat bar to one or both squares. Helps make up for only having 2 hands.

Re: Radial tires again
 

Some folks use the spring tube types or trammel bars but some still just use a tape measure. The key is measuring at the same height off the floor on both the front and the rear and also the same place on the tires. Any method will get into the ball park as long as the wheels are true & bearings are tight.

Most of the toe gages are less than 100 bucks plus shipping so they don't break the bank.

Re: Radial tires again
 

I hate to rehash this issue but Les Andrews books states - 1. Jack the front end of the car up just enough to raise the front wheels off the ground. I have no issue with the various measuring procedures, however, I believe that tire friction could cause enough flex in the tie rod while the car is not in motion and on the ground to make a 1/16" difference one way or the other in the toe-in without "slip plates". Maybe these modern alignment tools and procedures are for rack and pinion steering?? I can't find a procedure in the Ford Service Bulletins for checking toe-in. As I said before the toe-in CAN'T be different from one side to the other with this steering geometry - discounting wear.

John

Re: Radial tires again
 

The car has to be set up for toe in the way that it's going to be going down the road which means that it has to have the full weight on the ground.

Re: Radial tires again
 

On my Cessna 180, a conventional gear airplane, toe in is critical. I have four 12"X12" steel plates. I place two under each wheel with grease between each set of plates. This relieves the strain from the tires and the spring steel gear legs. Then the toe in is measured with two framing squares as described by Ak Sourdough. I have done this on the Model A also with good results. I believe it gives a more accurate measurement.

Re: Radial tires again
 

I put a 2x4 on the outside of each front wheel, blocked up with bricks.
Put two tape measures across, under the car, hook both on same side- one front, one rear.
Read the front, rear to determine toe.

Start the whole process by rotating tires for runout. Where the 2x4s meet tires

Any questions?

Karl