Navel gazing & the future of the car hobby
 

When I exercise, I watch reruns of TV car shows. This morning I was watching Chasing Classic Cars and one segment was about taking Steve Jobs' BMW Z-8 with 15,000 miles to auction. Lots of documentation plus a flip phone with the BMW logo. Car sold for $295,000 plus a $35,400 premium.


There was some discussion that the demographics are such that younger people are just not interested in cars, period. The sales price of the BMW wasn't that much more than one owned by Joe Lunchbucket.


I'm well aware that there will be some "barners" that give examples of their grandchildren who were playing with wrenches in their playpens at two years old.



Last week I got my SEMA magazine with some interesting statistics indicating that from a business point of view, catering to the UTV, truck, off-road and late model imports was the profitable way to go.


Food for thought when it's time to considering selling or passing on your Model A's.

Re: Navel gazing & the future of the car hobby
 

Well Ford decided to stop building cars for a reason.....and I agree the younger crowd is not that interested in cars.
I was at a show a few weeks ago and the average age of participants and visitors looked to be about 60. Plus, about 2/3 of the cars were rodded up, so not much interest in the original look.
I did here a 20 year old complain once at a show about all the 50s music..lol. It's as ancient to them as flapper music from the 20s was to us.

Re: Navel gazing & the future of the car hobby
 

Re: Navel gazing & the future of the car hobby
 

Denis, my thoughts on the Steve Jobs car while he was known celebrity, he was not considered of a status that would cause most people to get excited over. On the reverse side, had that BMW been owned by the present First Lady, I would have expected the bid results to be much different.


One other thought, while many younger people today are not interested in cars, many older people today who like/own collector cars were not necessarily interested in cars during their youth. Trends & fads always seem to have cycles, and what I have learning in the 50+ years around this hobby is that collectors cars have always been enjoyed by mostly the middle-age, -and older crowd. Ironically, when the 'old people' get too old to play with their autobile any longer, a younger 'old person' seemingly is ready to buy their car and go enjoy it.

Re: Navel gazing & the future of the car hobby
 

it ain't just cars! hit and miss engines ,cushman scooters. and motorcycles in general. everyone interested is 50+.there once was a time when every kid wanted a dirt bike. a guy i know owned a honda dealership and told me he once had to deliver 400 minitrails by christmas time. every one from harley on down has pretty much quit making entry level small bikes. some kids now only want some new electronic gadget, not a car or bike. i am friends with a couple of local bike dealers and hear them saying the mc business has peaked out.there is an interesting video on youtube about what is happening to harley, but i see the problems across the board with all brands. kids don't want to get their hands dirty, or skinned for that matter. i wonder if all the old care , gass engines, and vintage bikes may wind up in the junk because no one wants them.

Re: Navel gazing & the future of the car hobby
 

I have had brass era Fords, Cadillacs, Stanley Steam Cars and the like. The only time they have sold for a break even price has been to European buyers. As a result, I now only advertise on European sites and even recently a fellow purchased a number of my spare steam car engines and parts for what would be top end prices here. He was glad to get them because they were cheaper after shipping and import than buying them in the UK. Seems especially so with Model A era speed parts. Look at Model A prices in Europe and the UK. To me it represents a good alternative and they are appreciative at a younger age, at least that has been my experience.

Re: Navel gazing & the future of the car hobby
 

I would ad to that Denis, that bone stock Sedans don't bring as much interest, but something modified for performance yet 'traditional', like what Model A pep guys do here anyway, have a very good following here and abroad. Look at the Dirt Drags or Hot Rod Hill Climb, they seem to me to have attendance surpassing national club judging meets and the people their are having a ball.

Cheers,
geary

Re: Navel gazing & the future of the car hobby
 

Bought my Model A in January, I am 68. I emailed all the WA state clubs and into the lower part of BC, Canada describing what I wanted.
I received 4 replies and without doubt the emails expressed the same sentiments. I am down sizing, moving to a different location, kids don't want Dad's eccentric car or I am selling it sooner than later.
I think there will always be model A types, how ever I would not suggest putting a lot of $$$$ into one and expect to get it out. If one were to really want one, if one were to be patient and know what he / she wants they are out there or will be shortly.
Just my observation
Gerry Birch Bay WA

Re: Navel gazing & the future of the car hobby
 

I watched a show on History Channel the other night, all about trucks in America. It was interesting and led creedence to Ford's recent announcement about cutting back on car/sedan production in America. People want SUV's, Crossover vehicles, and trucks. And Ford as we know has been #1 in truck sales for 40 years in a row.

Pickups are really strong. They talked about the Ford Raptor, how it is in a class all by itself and GM, Dodge, Toyota don't even have anything that comes close to comparing to it.

I see old truck values really climbing. Pre-war Ford-Chevy-Dodge trucks in original not rodded condition bring some good money at sale time. And the market for 60's-'70's pickups, good ones, is pretty hot. 80's pickups are getting pretty popular too.

This may be the trend for antique vehicles, following what is happening with today's vehicles that people want. I'd guess a good 1930's Chevy Suburban would be pretty desirable:cool:

Re: Navel gazing & the future of the car hobby
 

It's interesting that Toyota, Honda and Hyundai can build a sedan and make a profit, but Ford can't, or doesn't want to. I say this as the owner of a 2013 Focus that is a great car, as trouble free a car as I have ever owned. I don't want my next car to be a SUV. but what do I know? I like driving 90 year old cars.

Re: Navel gazing & the future of the car hobby
 

It’s not just that the younger people aren’t interested in old cars, they are anti car all together. Many of them haven’t even driven a car by the time they reach 30 and don’t want to. With the change in lifestyle we are witnessing with a change to apartment living with little or no garage space, these people will never have the slightest interest in old cars and therefore, neither will their children. What deprived individuals they are!
On the apartment living, there has been action of dubious legality here by a group of inner suburban, apartment living people against what they see as the in humane treatment of hens in egg farms. They protest the living conditions of the chickens in cages stacked in rows where the chickens live, eat, sleep and work. I see it as rediculous that these people don’t realize that they have chosen to live in similar conditions in their apartments, stacked not only side by side but on top of each other as well. They live, eat, sleep and often work in their own cages.:rolleyes:

Re: Navel gazing & the future of the car hobby
 

Good point and yes there will be a lot of people who want cars not SUV's etc. My Mom was one of those.

Part of Ford's problem is the UAW. Last contract they inked they made a deal that every retiring Ford employee is paid a $75,000 cash bonus. Why Ford ever agreed to that is beyond comprehension. How many units do you have to sell, to make $75K, and then give it to an employee? On top of their regular pension and all.

The Asian car mfg. don't have all those legacy costs. Ford's only recourse is to build sedans in Mexico and China and bring them back in the US. I figured they would do that before they dumped the car lines. They are building cars in Europe and making money over there.

First time there is a hiccup in the gasoline systems like we've had before, and gas goes to $4 and $5 a gallon US, see how many trucks will get sold. Zilch.

I don't get it. Hope Ford knows what they are doing time will tell.

Re: Navel gazing & the future of the car hobby
 

Well, I'm 47 and have been going to car shows and fooling with cars for almost as long. I will say this, those DJ's at those car shows must only own 2 or 3 greatest hits of the 50's CD's for it's the same old tired songs played over and over. There is so much music from that time period, but jezz, how many times can you really hear Sixteen Candles before you never want to hear it again?

How about some Sun-era Elvis or Howlin' Wolf or Muddy Waters? Mix it up a bit.

Re: Navel gazing & the future of the car hobby
 

Ford shouldn't abandon their small car market. Most kids today who are hot rodding imports into tuner cars, could do some damage with that DOHC 4 Ford made (I forget the engine). I think they just need to market it better.

There is something to be said for a kid who can get 300+ hp out of junk yard 1.5L Honda using tons of boost and some other tricks.

Some folks just need to broaden their view. Tuner cars are no different than hot rodding an old Ford back in the day if you really think about it.

Re: Navel gazing & the future of the car hobby
 

Well because harley is riduculously overpriced on new and old and your paying for a brand. They are thier own greedy demise and i dont feel bad for em. I feel bad for the line workers though and the communities they support.

This all goes back to the root cause: younger generations do not have expendable income as they dont make anywhere near what most of you on here made at thier age and have 6 figure student debt to pay off and if they dont thier credit score is ruined so a 5 figure bike makes zero sense to own. Same reason they dont eat out, get married later, have less kids, dont buy a house(aka no garage to store toys tools or parts), dont buy diamonds, dont buy paper products, etc.

Ive thought alot about getting a atv or dirtbike. Closest off road park i can drive it is 2 hours away. Then pay a fee to ride it around. IL requires seperate insurance for it and title for it So yea uterly useless for me to own one.

Re: Navel gazing & the future of the car hobby
 

On my long boring drive back from IOLA the mind wanders. These crossover suvs are no different that your model a tudor or fordor. Square people compartment, no real trunk just people and cargo area, need to haul something slip in the hitch tray just like a luggage rack on an a!

The reason those 3 can make a car with a proffit is thats all theyve ever made is small compact cars. Sure toyota has made trucks but have gone virtually unchanged for 60 years and still cant handle salt. Honda is new to the truck market (i dont consider the ridgeline a truck) and hyundai used to be utter crap till they straightened thier act out in early 2000 and offering an unprececidented 10 year 100000 mile warranty as thier build quality went way up. Meanwhile thebig 3s standard warranty is 3yr 36k. Same as its been for years and building meh cars where if you want any creature comforts add 6k on the price. Last ford car i actually would buy was in the 80s. Ive driven a few foci from several generations and they are blah, no charachter or interesting features(so much road and engine noise). I absolutely cant stand my moms escape (focus underneath).

Re: Navel gazing & the future of the car hobby
 

Restore a Model A or any other car for the enjoyment of the hunt for parts, pleasure of working on the project and pride for the finished product......but not for the dream of making a profit on it because that rarely happens. If you buy a restored or even a daily driver Model A, don't expect it to be a money maker either. Just enjoy tinkering with it, driving it or just sitting and looking at it because that is what our hobby is all about. Lose money on your A in a declining market? So what. The pleasure you get from owning and driving is, for most of us, a willing price to pay for that enjoyment.

Glen

Re: Navel gazing & the future of the car hobby
 

Interesting thoughts, guys.

I'm now in my 40's and see my peers mimicking the mindset some of you mentioned. Some peers who live and work in cities don't even have a driver's license! They rely on public transportation and rides from services using their smartphone machines (Uber, Lyft, whatever). I live in the country and those around here learn to drive very young because it is necessary to do anything else. Different mindset from city to country living.

Also, Dave Ramsey says the rule of thumb is to not own anything with wheels or a motor that, all of their value totalled together, exceeds half of the total of your household annual gross income. Assuming the average income is $50,000 per year, you should not own more than $25,000 worth of cars (combined). My Model A 'collection' is worth more than my annual income by far. However, I am in Baby Step 7, so it doesn't matter. My peers who are in Baby Step 2 would be screwed.

Re: Navel gazing & the future of the car hobby
 

Ever been to a hot rod show? Or a ford mustang owners club? (why isn't there a club for the cars?) Who would want to wear puffy jackets and stand around listening to mustang sally for 6 hours? Or the same 3 elvis songs.
It's cringe worthily bad.

Re: Navel gazing & the future of the car hobby
 

I'm 37.
My wife and I have a 1997 Land Cruiser that we take off road.
I also have a 1931 Town sedan that I daily drive to work and out on weekends.
I can also say that I love the idea of autopilot cars, electric cars, Uber, mass transit, and everything in between. But there will always be a place for us gear heads.

I think there are different types of gear heads... but any gear head is a good one in my book. I don't think the "car hobby" is in trouble or in decline. There are so many different niches even in the Model A world. Fine point judging, touring class judging, daily driver, patina, and then break down into all the models.

I do think the greatest thing a Model A owner can do the for hobby is to actually drive the car. The more they are seen the more we can talk about them, explain them to younger men and women, and talk about how relatively affordable they are compared to other cars.