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Old Henry 11-23-2019 03:18 PM

47 generator rear bushing
 

Confused! The rear bushing on my 47 generator is worn out and needs replaced. As I read the official Ford "Repair Manual Generating and Starting Systems 1933-1947" it says "If the bushing is scored the brush and end plate assembly must be replaced. . . . NOTE: Do not attempt to remove the bushing from the brush end plate assembly as this bushing is not serviced separately." Yet, there seem to be several posts on the forum that discusses replacing that bushing, the "Green Bible" shows it as a part with its own part number, and I just bought the part from C&G.

So, what's the general consensus of opinion? Replaceable or not? If replaceable, how to remove the old one? That exact procedure I haven't found.

P.S. I have not been able to find just the brush end plate assembly for sale separately.

JSeery 11-23-2019 04:03 PM

Re: 47 generator rear bushing
 

No idea on the bushing Henry, but good to see you back on the Barn!

cas3 11-23-2019 04:14 PM

Re: 47 generator rear bushing
 

bushings in a hole like that can removed by threading a tap in and then extract it with a slide hammer or thread a nut onto the remaining threads of the tap and use a puller on that.

bobH 11-23-2019 04:28 PM

Re: 47 generator rear bushing
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by cas3 (Post 1824537)
bushings in a hole like that can removed by threading a tap in and then extract it with a slide hammer or thread a nut onto the remaining threads of the tap and use a puller on that.



Yes, bushings can be changed. Sometimes it's easier to find a swap meet generator that still has a decent end plate. In the past, I've been able to find old generators for 5 bucks, or one time, two for 5 bucks.
Welcome back Henry/Craig

koates 11-23-2019 04:50 PM

Re: 47 generator rear bushing
 

Hi Henry, nice to see you are still alive mate. Make sure you lube that new bush before you press it in the end housing. Sit it vertical on one thumb and fill to the top with engine oil and then press down on the top of the bush with your other thumb so that the oil comes through the pores of the bush to the outside. Or soak the bush in engine oil for at least 24 hours. The first method really gets the oil into it completely. If you don't do this then the bush will wear out quickly. Some bushes are just solid brass so that wont be able to get any oil through it in that case, depends what bush you have. Regards, Kevin.

flathead48 11-23-2019 05:11 PM

Re: 47 generator rear bushing
 

Old Henry, they are replaceable, you can carefully split the bushing and pull it out. Lube the new one after you press it in, chances are the front is wore and also should be replaced. The front one is easy just push it out and press new one in. I think C&G carry’s the parts.

B-O-B 11-23-2019 05:48 PM

Re: 47 generator rear bushing
 

Quote Old Henry;"I just bought the part from C&G."

Old Henry 11-23-2019 11:09 PM

Re: 47 generator rear bushing
 

1 Attachment(s)
Thanks for all the info.

Two more questions:

1. Since I don't have a tap to thread the bushing nor chisel to chisel it out, I wonder if this extractor for broken off plastic pipe could do the job.

2. If I'm not sure the new bushing is "Oilite" that allows the oil to soak through from the oil reservoir I wonder about drilling just the smallest hole through the bushing to allow the oil from the reservoir to enter the wear surface.

Ideas?

Old Henry 11-23-2019 11:15 PM

Re: 47 generator rear bushing
 

1 Attachment(s)
Or, one of these broken metal pipe extractors that are cheap at Home Depot?

alanwoodieman 11-23-2019 11:19 PM

Re: 47 generator rear bushing
 

borrow a tap and tap out the hole and use threads as a puller--it is by far the easiest way to remove the bushing

Old Henry 11-23-2019 11:21 PM

Re: 47 generator rear bushing
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSeery (Post 1824532)
. . . good to see you back on the Barn!

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobH (Post 1824545)
Welcome back Henry/Craig

Quote:

Originally Posted by koates (Post 1824552)
Hi Henry, nice to see you are still alive mate.

Thanks for the sentiments.

I'm still driving "Old Henry" daily and did two road trips in the last month, a 1,300 mile trip in three days to Virginia City, NV then Boise, ID then home and a 2,000 mile trip in 6 days to Santa Monica and San Diego, CA then Tucson, AZ and home.

cas3 11-24-2019 12:01 AM

Re: 47 generator rear bushing
 

yes, professor, glad to see you back, hope to hear of your future travels in the ford. if you dont have a tap, you can make one. a grade 8 bolt with 4 flutes cut into it with your 4"grinder, every growing boy has a grinder, right? a home made tool like this makes a great thread chaser to clean up old threads, and since we are talking brass bushings, it may be enough to cut threads. or, really, just go buy one, about 4 bucks at any hardware store. next we need the size. i forget the size of the armature end, but i presume you have a dial caliper, every growing boy must have that to play with cars also. they are about 10 bucks for the chinese thing and thats all you need until you get to graduate school. so, the reason to measure is to know what size the hole started out in life, and what size it has worn to. reason being, it may be worn to an odd size that you may want to buy a metric "in between"size, or drill the old bushing to the next size that fits to allow a full depth thread cut. machinist know it as the major and minor measurement of the thread, that being the widest part, and the thinnest part at the bottom of the threads. i know, too much info here, the bushing should not be much of a fight, its brass so not rusted in, and just a press fit, but i would try to get as deep of a thread cut as possible because failure usually means go to plan b. so, once you get a tap screwed in, i would waist half a day making some fancy puller never to be used again, or you could get two matching fine thread bolts with nuts, and clamp the tap in the vise at the correct length to match your bolts with nuts down flush to the end with all four of your hands. now, simply hold a wrench on the end plate side so you dont muck up the aluminum, and with another wrench turn the bolts (or nuts) a little bit on each side until it starts to pull out. hope this makes sense, you can do it

flathead48 11-24-2019 06:47 AM

Re: 47 generator rear bushing
 

Old Henry, it might be cheaper to just buy a small chisel, not a hard job to get them out been rebuilding these for years they split very easy.

cmbrucew 11-24-2019 01:38 PM

Re: 47 generator rear bushing
 

Welcome back Professor.


Bruce

Lawrie 11-24-2019 11:59 PM

Re: 47 generator rear bushing
 

Henry, look on ebay , I bought a nos end plate from there ,or fred at barnfind.
Lawrie

tubman 11-25-2019 04:40 AM

Re: 47 generator rear bushing
 

More specifically, "barnfind08" on here. Fred Wilner at "Southside Obsolete". I am only clarifying this as there is a "barnfind" on here who is NOT SSO.

glennpm 11-25-2019 07:54 AM

Re: 47 generator rear bushing
 

I replaced the bushing in my three brush generator a couple of months ago. I bought the bushing from Vanpelt and used a internal bearing puller to get the old one out. I supported the end plate on the top on my vise and used the slide hammer to pull the bushing out from below. It was stubborn at first, but then once moving came out easily.


http://www.vanpeltsales.com/FH_web/v...atalog2019.pdf


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Kerk 11-25-2019 08:42 AM

Re: 47 generator rear bushing
 

Drive it out using a wood dowel ground to just fit in bushing,. Fill bushing with grease and drive dowel in pushing out bushing out. Same as removing clutch pilot bushing from flywheel. kerk

Old Henry 11-25-2019 02:14 PM

Re: 47 generator rear bushing
 

4 Attachment(s)
The last couple of days the generator has come on and run for about 20 minutes with a slight noise. Then I started smelling a burning smell. About as soon as I did the generator went off for about another 20 minutes until it cooled down, then came back on. I wondered why.

When I took it apart today this is what I found. The bushing was pretty much worn clear out. It was nothing to pound a screwdriver between it and the cylinder to break it in two to pull out. I pounded the new one in then turned to the front one. As soon as I looked at the armature I realized why the cycling on and off with heat. The rear bushing was so worn that it let the armature hit the inside and rub on it enough to heat it up, burn off the insulation between the armature plates, and shut the thing down until it cooled down. I decided the generator was toast and ordered a rebuilt one off of ebay for $100.

koates 11-25-2019 05:48 PM

Re: 47 generator rear bushing
 

BOY Henry that armature is cooked. Did you not but a drop of oil in that end bush now and then which may have prevented this outcome. Hope your rebuilt generator is really rebuilt. Good luck, Kevin.

koates 11-25-2019 05:53 PM

Re: 47 generator rear bushing
 

Just another tip, don't have that generator drive belt too tight. About 1 1/2"play in the middle length. Too tight will wear that bush out and don't forget a drop of oil now and then. Regards, Kevin.

Old Henry 11-25-2019 06:31 PM

Re: 47 generator rear bushing
 

I always loaded the oil fitting at the back of the generator every thousand miles as recommended by Ford. However, I made two mistakes. First of all, not knowing how the oil got through the bearing to the shaft, I put in thick oil, SAE 95-140. The second mistake was, the last time I oiled the generator, The oil spout somehow popped off and was found laying on the top of the manifold at the end of my latest 1300 mile trip. I put the filler back in and pounded it down tight but I think the damage was already done. When I took the generator apart at that point, the bearing was totally dry but not particularly worn. Then, another mistake, again, because I didn’t know how the oil got through the bearing to the shaft. I loaded the bearing with grease, counting on it to lubricate if the oil didn’t. I then did my 2000 mile road trip. That apparently finished off the bushing. So, the problem was not lack of lubrication, it was too heavy oil, axle grease, oil filler falling off allowing the oil to evaporate and the bearing to dry out.

bobH 11-25-2019 07:14 PM

Re: 47 generator rear bushing
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by koates (Post 1825243)
Just another tip, don't have that generator drive belt too tight. About 1 1/2"play in the middle length. Too tight will wear that bush out and don't forget a drop of oil now and then. Regards, Kevin.



I'm still curious about the belt adjustment. As mentioned by Koates/Kevin, the belt adjustment should be quite loose, compared to modern belts/cars. I've made the same mistake, myself, prior to learning about this. And, possibly, a tight belt could have contributed here.

JSeery 11-25-2019 08:51 PM

Re: 47 generator rear bushing
 

The lubrication chart I have calls for using engine oil, which if specified as SAE 30 for summer and 20w for colder weather.

Old Henry 11-25-2019 10:40 PM

Re: 47 generator rear bushing
 

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by bobH (Post 1825259)
I'm still curious about the belt adjustment. As mentioned by Koates/Kevin, the belt adjustment should be quite loose, compared to modern belts/cars. I've made the same mistake, myself, prior to learning about this. And, possibly, a tight belt could have contributed here.

I personally don't overtighten the belt. I had an engine rebuilder do it once and I didn't loosen it before a road trip which resulted in the same thing but worse. See: https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=155331 post # 22.

Attached diagram shows ˝" play both directions for the belt. I always have more than that. Even still, the bushing wears out.

Old Henry 11-25-2019 10:41 PM

Re: 47 generator rear bushing
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSeery (Post 1825283)
The lubrication chart I have calls for using engine oil, which if specified as SAE 30 for summer and 20w for colder weather.

My lubrication chart calls for S.A.E. 20. Until I get some of that I'll go with my Mobile 1 10W-30.

Old Henry 11-30-2019 06:33 PM

Re: 47 generator rear bushing
 

1 Attachment(s)
What's this mystery weep hole?

As I'm trying to fill the oil reservoir for the rear bushing bearing, oil weeps out of that little hole in the side of the reservoir below the level of the bottom of the bushing. Is that how it's supposed to be? If so, it seems the oil in the reservoir below the bushing would remain below the bushing and not touch the bushing to be absorbed into it for lubrication. Or, should that hole not be leaking out oil?

koates 11-30-2019 07:06 PM

Re: 47 generator rear bushing
 

You can put too much oil in the generator oiler with the result being oil all over the brushes and commutator which will stop the gen working. Just a drop or two every thousand miles, that's ONE DROP OR TWO ONLY. Don't keep filling the oiler because you will see oil coming out of the drain hole. Regards, Kevin.

cas3 12-01-2019 12:04 AM

Re: 47 generator rear bushing
 

the weep hole is designed to do exactly what its doing, release excess oil. there should be a felt washer at the back which absorbs oil and slowly releases the vapors onto the shaft. you have a oilite bushing, so its oil impregnated, and therefor only needs a sip every now and then. i looked at the green book, and its not shown? in the parts numbers 10129 is the whole assembly, as you found, and 78 10128 is the bushing which shows as no longer available in 48! all the 101 numbers are for the rear end parts, they do talk about the felt washer on 3 brush genys, but it gets confusing on yours. but...i believe its there, and again with the oilite bushing a dab of light grease on assembly, and a few drops of motor oil at the recommended intervals is what your after. actually the 90wt you put in should have worked, your bushing was toast before you put it in

flatheadmurre 12-01-2019 04:33 AM

Re: 47 generator rear bushing
 

Isn´t it that the oil you put in goes around the oilite bushing...whatever isn´t absorbed the re at first ends up in an oilwick below as an reservoir...if you overfill that it weeps out.
The common feltwashers i´ve seen is usually in front with the open ballbearing.
The small amount of oil comming out the rear bushing is taken care of by centrifugal force.


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