ignition timing
 

I just learned a valuable lesson this weekend concerning ignition timing. Using a well known website's information I set the timing on my '29 Coupe. As the car was new to me and had sat many years since it last ran I didn't have a good feel for its correct sound or power. I was also having many issues with overheating even during idle which I attributed to the 2 row, 10 fins per inch radiator.
Before dropping a lot of coin on a new radiator I decided to make a simple, cheap (free), ignition pointer and mark TDC so that I could varify full advance and retard timing with an adjustable timing light. I was shocked. Full retard was about 35-40 degrees ATDC. Full advance was exactly TDC. The instructions that I followed to the letter had me setting the points to begine to break where the trailing edge of the rotor contact was even with the #1 pin in the distributor body when the spark rod was at full retard. When the rod is moved to full advance the leading egde of the contact is even with the #1 pin. I believe this is a misprint in the instructions and that you'd want the leading edge of the rotor contact to be even with the #1 pin with the spark rod at full retard. Here's a link to the instructions I followed:
http://www.abarnyard.com/workshop/timing.htm
By trial and error, I finally got the timing adjusted so that full advance is at 30 degrees BTDC and full retard is about 5 degrees ATDC, as it should be. Wow, what a difference! The car now has much more power and will actually travel faster than the steering will allow within my comfort zone. I can take the $$$ I was going to spend on a new 3 core radiator and rebuild the steering box and have money left over for other things.
I wonder how many people have done this same thing? Please note that I am not trying to make anyone look bad but wanted to raise awareness to this issue. Without the timing marker I would have never have known.

Re: ignition timing
 

Henry's Instruction Book that came with the Model A tells how--A screwdriver a 1/2 open end and 2 minutes---never fails.

Re: ignition timing
 

I think you should read that web site again. As far as I can see it is right. But if your timed at 30 degrees BTDC at full advance you should be ok.

Re: ignition timing
 

Does your distributor have original style or modern points??

Bob

Re: ignition timing
 

I think maybe you are confused about dealing with the backlash

Re: ignition timing
 

As Mitch said, don't forget about the backlash! It really gave me a run for my money until I figured it out.

Re: ignition timing
 

That's why the NuRex tool is so cool, takes backlash out of the picture.
Paul in CT

Re: ignition timing
 

Also do you know that the rotor turns CCW?
I know Marco doesn't have a mistake in the timing procedure he posted on his website.

Re: ignition timing
 

Yes, CCW and also original style points. His method gets you close but it seems to me there's no way to know for sure if your timing is right, unless you have enough experience with a Model A to know just by how it runs, without a pointer and a strobe type timing light. You more experienced guys are at an advantage :D

Re: ignition timing
 

You can get it right on using a testlight to adjust the cam...

Re: ignition timing
 

I will just add that I have followed both the Ford procedure in the Owners Book, and Marco's , and they are both accurate, but I still find that business with the setting and locking-down the distributor cam to be very fussy / fiddly. I was always uncertain whether I had really gotten it set "right".

I think experience is a big help...

I have used the low-voltage test light as Mitch suggested on other older engines (flat-head MoPar sixes, and Stovebolt Chevies with the pointer and steel ball in the flywheel).

Mcorrell - do you have any pics of your pointer set-up ?


Frank

Re: ignition timing
 

Yup it is not a big deal. You can also use a feeler gauge say .002 tell it just goes in to tell you when you are close. The light is the best way.

Re: ignition timing
 

Here's the pointer. I got the idea and design from a video posted online. The pointer is attached under the RF engine mounting bolt. I painted the marker on the pulley and also filed a very small notch in the pulley for a more permanent marker. I thought this would look better than a fancy billet pointer set-up. Obviously you have to use an adjustable timing light with this set up.
When I set the points/cam I used a breaker light that I've had for 30+ years that I used to use on old dirt bikes, tractors etc. When I tested my initial settings I was dead on TDC when the spark rod was at full retard which is where I set the cam. I first thought I misunderstood the directions and that I should have had the rod at full advance or had the rotor button at the dashed position when setting the cam.
My advice for anyone experiencing overheating is to do this and check your timing before buying a new radiator. I hope to know soon if this cures my overheating and lack of power issues.

Re: ignition timing
 

I have one of these on my engine:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/FORD-MODEL-A...16.m2516.l5255

Re: ignition timing
 

Very clean and simple job on the timing-tab... I think I could do this. :)

I had to go to Google about the adjustable timing light, though... :o

What will they think of next ? :rolleyes:

Re: ignition timing
 

In the thread I had posted about my electronic ignition questions, this was what was confusing me since I didn't have a spark rod with the electronic ignition. I didn't know what full retard would be with my setup and it was confusing if this type of timing routine would work or not on my truck.

I don't know if all the methods will work or if one is actually better than the other. The timing light is probably not practical out in the field though and away from a garage where it would be more readily available.

https://youtu.be/nLzUpQUTU6Y

Re: ignition timing
 

Maybe I am completely off here but adjusting the points cam in the field shouldn't be necessary once it is set. Even if the points are changed, gapped correctly the timing should be very close.
When you state the electronic ignition doesn't have a spark rod, I assume the electronic ignition has a built in (digital) advance or is it a mechanical (centrifugal) advance? i thought about installing an electronic ignition but kind of like the original setup and adjusting the advance manually.

Re: ignition timing
 

I just use a dot on the t-cover and a dot on the pulley.. No pointer or scale needed when using an adjustable timing light.. It's incogneato that way...

Re: ignition timing
 

I honestly do not know as this is the first time for me in dealing with this setup and I do not know anything about it at all.

Re: ignition timing
 

Wrapping up this thread I'll say I had hoped the overheating issue would be gone with corrected timing but that isn't the case. Top speed is about the same at 50 mph... possibly a little more if I had more space. Power was slightly better as was acceleration but it quickly overheats on long grades in top gear at say 35-40 mph. I guess the 2 row radiator will have to go.