Open driveline on Model A
 

One time at the North West regional I saw a fellow selling kits to convert the Model A to an open driveline. Does anyone know his name?

Thanks,

John

Re: Open driveline on Model A
 

More importantly why?

Re: Open driveline on Model A
 

Why not? I plan on using an automatic transmission and it will make the installation easier.

Re: Open driveline on Model A
 

Perhaps a question that should be asked in the Hot Rod section.

Re: Open driveline on Model A
 

Speedway has one.

http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Ford-O...-Kit,3770.html

Joe

Re: Open driveline on Model A
 

The conversion to a 5 speed Muncie transmission requires an open driveline.

The people that build the kits might be able to help with just the drive line.

LINKS http://munciekokomo.citysearch.com/p...torations.html


http://lainefamily.com/ModelAFiles/ModelAT5.htm

Re: Open driveline on Model A
 

John, Hi from NZ, Hotrod works & speedway motors do one, Some smaller tractors use a 6 spline PTO coupler for drive to to impliments, seen them used , In order to create a cheap seal on orig rear bango you can cut the end of orig torque tube & fit seal inside, , Hope this helps, Cheers Derek.

Re: Open driveline on Model A
 

I have not tried it, but I have heard that the F-1 pickup pinion shaft will interchange. With that you
can put on an external U-Joint. And I don't care why you are doing it. :)

Re: Open driveline on Model A
 

John, i dont know if this will help but here is another site. Mark.
http://www.flat-o.com/carproducts/flatomatic.htm

Re: Open driveline on Model A
 

Steve Becker just completed an open drive line A rear end for me. Bert's Model A in Denver 800/321-1931

Re: Open driveline on Model A
 

John;
Remember you can contact Art Moore down in Upland, I believe he has 5 "A"'s with open drive lines, auto trans adaptors also, call him at 909-982-7790, you can tell him I sent you!

Re: Open driveline on Model A
 

I have seen this many times before. Someone asks a question about a mod that many are interested in and another poster tries to direct him/her to the hot rod board like they are in the wrong place. I wonder why this is when not a soul even mentioned the hot rod board when this string came up, http://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=16638 .

Kind of a one sided way of looking at things. I don't know why some are singled out to be berated and pushed toward the hot rod board and some are ignored when they are doing something that is obviously hot rod related.

Comments?

Re: Open driveline on Model A
 

The torque tube is an important part of the rear....If its removed another form of locating the rear end is needed to keep the rear end from twisting....

Re: Open driveline on Model A
 

Most of this was over my head. I hadn't heard this kind of Model A "modification" discussed before. What are the advantages of removing the torque tube? And like brokenspoke says, aren't you now allowing the whole rear end to "float" more and sending thrust and rear axle twisting/torque loads into areas where they weren't intended by design to go?

How do the benefits outway the risks?

Forgive the time-worn cliche, but Henry designed it that way - with a torque tube - for a reason! (in MOST cases, anyway... - when he wasn't doing things just to save a penny). He could have saved a lot of time and pennies by eliminating the torque tube! - but he didn't!

Earle

Re: Open driveline on Model A
 

The speedway motors looks like a good way to go. Thanks everyone for the input. Just for the record I have some subscribers that have requested we look into installing an automatic transmission because of health reasons they can not drive a manual transmission car and want to continue in the Model A hobby.

Re: Open driveline on Model A
 

John

I'm working on my second A without a torque tube. The wish bones are easily modified with a 1/4" by 1" strap welded on both edges to the bottom seam of the wishbones. This was necessary to install a T-5 transmission. There is another piece that bolts to the crossmember where the shifter tower is located. Note the master cylinder location using the stock cross piece.

I often wonder if Edsel got a ration from the old man when made modifications to his Fords?

Re: Open driveline on Model A
 

Earle: Many people have(or are) converting to open drive when replacing original transmission with 3 spd synchro out of late model ford trucks (w? o/drive) and many have gone to 5 speeds out of chevys. Yes you need to stabilize the rear end, either with a 3 or 4 pt connection to frame or "splitting" the rear wishbones and mount to frame. Actually the orig A wishbones are a little week so modifications are necessary.
Paul in CT

Re: Open driveline on Model A
 

Check with Steve at Bert's in Denver. I seem to remember he mentioned doing a couple of automatic changes for customers that could no longer shift. They used MoPar automatic transmisions. I don't remember that they had to have an open driveshaft, but don't know about that for sure.

Re: Open driveline on Model A
 

are you going to use a stock engine? or hopped up model a flathead? Ive wondered if any one was running automatics, but had never seen one with a model a engine before.

Re: Open driveline on Model A
 

Sometimes we say things without knowing all the facts. I have been supplying product and service to individuals with disabilities for close to 30 years. Thru my shop thousands of people can now get around, report to work, cruise/tour with their friends and etc. And for those that are able to drive, an auto trans is their salvation. Previously I covered hand controls and manual transmissions so I wont bore you with those details.

My wife and I have had personal "mechanical" problems that has required modifications to our yet to be completed Panel Delivery. Without these non-standard additions we will not be out there with our friends. The addition of a automatic transmission may make it possible for one of ours to continue to drive and enjoy their Model A. Lets encourage them to do what ever they need to continue to be with us!

Re: Open driveline on Model A
 

No it doesent....I'm adding a 5 speed and keeping the torque tube

Re: Open driveline on Model A
 

John, I forgot about another link that looked good.This is for change to auto
Trans for model A and B. I have heard they are good.



http://www.transmissionadapters.com/

Re: Open driveline on Model A
 

I'm working on a Model A based traditional hot rod. (I'm not molesting a restorable car- look at my avatar picture.) I generally ignore this board 'cause I have been made to feel not welcome. The Early V8 group is somewhat more forgiving and many would respond to putting an open driveline in an A. (By the way, is that an A rear end you want to modify? If so, you might want to consider going to a rear with at straddle mounted pinion.)

Re: Open driveline on Model A
 

It will be installed with the new Burtz engine but kept relatively stock, high compression head and downdraft carb or fuel injection. I plan on using an original rear end and will come up with a way to support it and maintain the position.

Re: Open driveline on Model A
 

John, I have spoken with them, they will build an adapter for the Ford C-4 transmission. I tried to meet up with them at SEMA but didn't connect. I plan on calling them this week to get that started.

Re: Open driveline on Model A
 

Yes, callcoy, John L. and 1931flamingo, and others, - thanks for the explanations. I can now see the reason that many are wanting to yank the torque tube and change over to auto. transmissions. I agree that this is a great way to allow folks with medical limitations to continue enjoying their A's. The reason wasn't mentioned in the opening message.

It's also good to see that folks are making the necessary structural cahnges to insure the safety and original stability of the critical rear-end set-up.

And, "...original Model A wishbones were a little weak" (?). I don't recall a rash of rear wishbone failures in the literature or on this site. Do they fail under "normal" driving conditions or when abused in some way? What's the "failure mode"?

I learn something every day in the Barn.

Thanks, Gents.

Earle

Re: Open driveline on Model A
 

Well said Steve!!! I agree completely!!

Eighty

Re: Open driveline on Model A
 

Earle: re: "weak wishbones". If splitting and mounting to frame and putting MUCH more HP to the drive train is what I was referring to. Sounds like john is just trying to "refine" "orig" A with an automatic.
Paul in CT

Re: Open driveline on Model A
 

Giving fellow barners the benefit of the doubt, I ascribe it not to some sort of "orginal A snobbery" but to a genuine spirit of helpfulness.

Let's face it, there's a higher likelihood that your post will be seen by someone who has made this type of change on the "rod" side of things than here. That's because a lot of rodders make changes like this when switching over to a different motor, transmission and rear end--so possibly the majority of the members of those boards have something relevant to say. On this particular forum, I'd guess that this type of modification has been done by a very small percentage of members.

That's not to say that these types of questions can't/shouldn't be asked here, just that you're more likely to get useful information from the forums where more folks have first-hand knowledge.

But that's just my rose-colored-glasses view. ;)

Re: Open driveline on Model A
 

denis4x4 – “Note the master cylinder location using the stock cross piece.”

I really like that idea of moving the master cylinder to the other side, even though my Model A and Model T will stay with stock brakes. That modification has to make it a lot simpler installation.

Re: Open driveline on Model A
 

The OE wishbones are completely adequate in conjunction with the OE torque tube. If the torque tube is removed, however, the wishbones are called upon to do much more work than they were designed for, even with a stock engine.

Joe

Re: Open driveline on Model A
 

John, Dick Sparks is building a slant window with open driveline and posted a number of photos on the old Fordbarn. He had a design issue with his four-bar setup which was identified by Marco and others, and later posted that he had figured out a better design. He might have a lot of info for you.

He's registered on the new FB as Dick Sparks, but has posted only some ads so far as I can tell. You should be able to PM him.

Joe

Re: Open driveline on Model A
 

JoeWay: That's what I was trying to say about removing the torque tube, then the wishbones aren't up to the job at hand. Thanks for completing my thought.
Paul in CT

Re: Open driveline on Model A
 

I have an open drive line on my 28 Model A Speedster. She has a hopped up A motor, F150 O/D tranny coupled to an open driveline. The drive line adaptor to the Banjo is adaptor from Speedway Motors. To accomodate the transmission in this case the center crossmember was completely removed and a new adaptation was put in 6 inches further back - actually a piece of 14 ga. C purlin welded to the upper lip of the frame rail. A piece of 2 x 2 angle iron was used to creat a lower center crossmember - making a "V" under the tranny. A new radias rod jiont was built into this new crossmember to take the place of the one on the original torque tube. Angle iron 1 1/2 x 1 1/2 inch was welded to the radias rods to strengthen them.

So far she has performed beautifuly. I have run in three F.A.S.T. Hillclimbs. She runs in the middle of the flathead pack but no wins YET.

Maybe someday I will get around to taking pictures and learning how to post them. Ken