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Step-down 07-12-2020 04:10 PM

Off shore adjustable lifters
 

3 Attachment(s)
I know we have beat this to death on other threads but thought I would post couple pictures of how these off shore lifters fail .

Kube 07-12-2020 05:06 PM

Re: Off shore adjustable lifters
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Step-down (Post 1908508)
I know we have beat this to death on other threads but thought I would post couple pictures of how these off shore lifters fail .

I think it's nice of you to remind folks the common issues with these. Some folks may not have seen previous threads to this regard.
I am fortunate to have access to a hardness (Rockwell) tester.
The recent set I'd tested (form Red's) found three of sixteen very soft (junk) . They would not have held up for very long whatsoever.

51504bat 07-12-2020 05:20 PM

Re: Off shore adjustable lifters
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kube (Post 1908515)
I think it's nice of you to remind folks the common issues with these. Some folks may not have seen previous threads to this regard.
I am fortunate to have access to a hardness (Rockwell) tester.
The recent set I'd tested (form Red's) found three of sixteen very soft (junk) . They would not have held up for very long whatsoever.


What did Red's say?

GOSFAST 07-12-2020 05:55 PM

Re: Off shore adjustable lifters
 

3 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Step-down (Post 1908508)
I know we have beat this to death on other threads but thought I would post couple pictures of how these off shore lifters fail .

It's specifically for this reason we use/sell ONLY the original Johnson tappets, today they come from "Topline", the same mfr still as the old days!

I have trouble keeping these in stock all the time we sell so many.

I would just add a bit more info here while we're on the lifter subject. It's extremely important to use the proper break-in lube, we use ONLY "moly" lube here, on the lobes and the lifter faces. After the initial break-in it's also necessary to run some higher-end oil, not the kind you find in the typical Walmart type stores?

Thanks, Gary in N.Y.

P.S. Here's a few shots of the lifters and the lube. We just recently began supplying a small container of the lube with every 16 lifters!

Step-down 07-12-2020 05:56 PM

Re: Off shore adjustable lifters
 

I have to replace these lifters so the question is who’s .

earlyride 07-12-2020 06:26 PM

Re: Off shore adjustable lifters
 

Is there any damage to the cam lobes with the effected lifters?

Talkwrench 07-12-2020 06:46 PM

Re: Off shore adjustable lifters
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Step-down (Post 1908527)
I have to replace these lifters so the question is whoís .

Looks like you missed Gary's post by a minute.. as above ^^^^

Kube 07-12-2020 07:10 PM

Re: Off shore adjustable lifters
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by GOSFAST (Post 1908526)
It's specifically for this reason we use/sell ONLY the original Johnson tappets, today they come from "Topline", the same mfr still as the old days!

I have trouble keeping these in stock all the time we sell so many.

I would just add a bit more info here while we're on the lifter subject. It's extremely important to use the proper break-in lube, we use ONLY "moly" lube here, on the lobes and the lifter faces. After the initial break-in it's also necessary to run some higher-end oil, not the kind you find in the typical Walmart type stores?

Thanks, Gary in N.Y.

P.S. Here's a few shots of the lifters and the lube. We just recently began supplying a small container of the lube with every 16 lifters!

These (the ones that 3 of 16 were dead soft) were Johnson brand from red's.
Do you test the ones you use?

GOSFAST 07-12-2020 08:06 PM

Re: Off shore adjustable lifters
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kube (Post 1908552)
These (the ones that 3 of 16 were dead soft) were Johnson brand from red's.
Do you test the ones you use?

Hi Kub', would have to contact Paul at "Topline" and ask if they happen to supply Reds with lifters?? I can state with certainty that both Comp Cams and Isky get their Flathead lifters from "Topline".

Haven't had one single "bad" lifter so far from "Topline" so no real reason to check them. First time I have an issue that would change things really quick!

Thanks, Gary in N.Y.

P.S. I did just check Reds website, really doesn't state original "Johnson" lifters, it does however say Johnson "style" lifters . We've been warning customers for years now about buying/using Johnson "style" lifters. The few I've had come in here (supplied by customers) were definitely "off-shore".

Ol' Ron 07-13-2020 10:23 AM

Re: Off shore adjustable lifters
 

I used to buy my lifters from Collens & Lery in BP conn. One day I went into the shop and ordered a set. The counterman said"That will be 20 dollars" I said" at this rate they'll be 50 dollars before you know it". They had bee $12.50 set
I believe gary's lifters are the same as the originals, the only difference is the value of the money????????

19Fordy 07-13-2020 10:36 AM

Re: Off shore adjustable lifters
 

5 Attachment(s)
GOSFAST: I still have the old box my original Johnson lifters came in in 1970. Two wrenches
were included. Next time you order lifters from "Topline" please inquire as to whether they were formerly "Wolverine". Just curious. Would be neat to know. Is "Topline" located at the old Wolverine address or city?

35fordtn 07-13-2020 11:10 AM

Re: Off shore adjustable lifters
 

Why even fool with adjustables? Ford didn't use them, and original lifters rarely fail and weight a lot less.

For me I can grind valves for non adjustables much quicker than I can adjust those pesky adjustables.

Step-down 07-13-2020 11:38 AM

Re: Off shore adjustable lifters
 

No damage to cam (Max 1) check valve spring pressure seems good.

GOSFAST 07-13-2020 11:45 AM

Re: Off shore adjustable lifters
 

2 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by 19Fordy (Post 1908712)
GOSFAST: I still have the old box my original Johnson lifters came in in 1970. Two wrenches
were included. Next time you order lifters from "Topline" please inquire as to whether they were formerly "Wolverine". Just curious. Would be neat to know. Is "Topline" located at the old Wolverine address or city?

Back in the '80's Wolverine owned what is now "Topline", we had a "WD" with them for years. The entire conglomerate was owned by "The Sherlin Corp", at one point Crane Cams owned it all also!

We became good friends with Harry Krummery, the engineer at the Blue-Racer division of Wolverine! It's all a really long story!

Thanks, Gary in N.Y.

P.S. I put a couple shots below here of the catalog showing the Flathead lifter number, VT-2032, even back then we were buying the lifters by the trays, 92 to a tray, and the original "Johnson" tappet catalog! Hope you can make it out! These lifters back in 1994 cost us $3.70/ea. I still have much inventory on the shelf from them including the aluminum cam gears, part #TG-2702.

Ronnieroadster 07-13-2020 01:48 PM

Re: Off shore adjustable lifters
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Step-down (Post 1908508)
I know we have beat this to death on other threads but thought I would post couple pictures of how these off shore lifters fail .





Are you sure those solid body lifters are off shore? Reason I ask the only off shore lifters I have seen are hollow copies of the Johnson lifter. The solid lifters I recall were US made. Anyone else know for sure if the solid lifters are offshore?
Ronnieroadster

19Fordy 07-13-2020 02:05 PM

Re: Off shore adjustable lifters
 

GOESFAST, Thanks so much for taking the time and effort to answer my question. I feel better now, knowing Topline is an excellent replacement.

I don't remember if the original "Johnsons" were flat or did they have a slight crown.
Are the Topline lifters flat or crowned? I do still have an old set of Johnsons lifters that are ground with a slight radius. Is that good, bad or desirable only with certain cams?

Thanks, Jim in FL

Step-down 07-13-2020 02:25 PM

Re: Off shore adjustable lifters
 

Ronnieroadster
Donít know either way whoís lifters they are . When I saw the lifter face and after checking spring tension I draw to a fast conclusion ďMy bad ď
I donít see any sign of any wear on the cam lobe .
This lifters is flat on top , I thought they should have a slight dome , doesnít that create The lifter to spin or is it the cam lobe grind that make the lifter spin .


Hell I donít know just a old Harley Guy having fun with these Flathead

GOSFAST 07-13-2020 02:49 PM

Re: Off shore adjustable lifters
 

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by 19Fordy (Post 1908767)
GOESFAST, Thanks so much for taking the time and effort to answer my question. I feel better now, knowing Topline is an excellent replacement.

I don't remember if the original "Johnsons" were flat or did they have a slight crown.
Are the Topline lifters flat or crowned? I do still have an old set of Johnsons lifters that are ground with a slight radius. Is that good, bad or desirable only with certain cams?

Thanks, Jim in FL

They've always had the "crown" on the lifter face, it helps with two things, first, it helps to keep the lifters "spinning" for a constant oil supply and second, it helps keep the cam running into the unit. Sort of "threading" it into the block!

They also have the a radius on the adjusting nuts as well where they contact the valve stem. This is most likely done to keep the point-of-contact between the stems and the adjusting nuts to a minimum, makes it less important where "alignment" would be an issue??

Thanks, Gary in N.Y.

P.S. On side note almost all cam lobes are ground with a taper to correspond with the lifter radius! Again, this keeps everything "spinning" so to speak! The only lifters (I believe) without a radius were used on the old "Nailheads"?? One of the cam guys up here may know for sure? This photo from Isky's catalog may help understand what's occurring?

petehoovie 07-13-2020 02:54 PM

Re: Off shore adjustable lifters
 

https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/attac...3&d=1594669511

Ronnieroadster 07-13-2020 03:34 PM

Re: Off shore adjustable lifters
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Step-down (Post 1908772)
Ronnieroadster
Donít know either way whoís lifters they are . When I saw the lifter face and after checking spring tension I draw to a fast conclusion ďMy bad ď
I donít see any sign of any wear on the cam lobe .
This lifters is flat on top , I thought they should have a slight dome , doesnít that create The lifter to spin or is it the cam lobe grind that make the lifter spin .


Hell I donít know just a old Harley Guy having fun with these Flathead

Yes your correct the lifters do have a slight crown/radius to them. If you hold a set of new lifters face to face with light behind them you can see the radius. The good quality original lifters from Johnson even if used will have the radius. However considering the reduction and eventually the elimination of Zinc additives in most brands of engine oils since the 80's lifter wear like the set you have will happen. Extremely worn lifters will be flat when held face to face.
Ronnieroadster


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