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-   -   My condensers are making me depressed (https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=233067)

Ten1nis 11-11-2017 08:52 PM

My condensers are making me depressed
 

My recently purchased condensers are all failing. During the last three months I have been left on the side of the road. I replace it with another and it lasts a hundred miles or so then it fails. Any ideas?

Railcarmover 11-11-2017 09:31 PM

Re: My condensers are making me depressed
 

low base voltage,check your popout/key switch and wiring..

Larry Jenkins 11-11-2017 09:31 PM

Re: My condensers are making me depressed
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ten1nis (Post 1551166)
My recently purchased condensers are all failing. During the last three months I have been left on the side of the road. I replace it with another and it lasts a hundred miles or so then it fails. Any ideas?

Pertronics

Kevin in NJ 11-11-2017 09:35 PM

Re: My condensers are making me depressed
 

Burn out proof from A&L.

1930-Pickup 11-11-2017 11:01 PM

Re: My condensers are making me depressed
 

What is your battery voltage at cruising RPM?
Are you using a 6v battery?
What is your generator charge rate set at?
Are your points burning faster than what you would expect?

I do suggest that you find the source of the problem before you replace too many things. That way you can be sure you actually fixed it.

Could be related to voltage too high. Railcarmover's idea of low voltage could also be the case, although I'm not very familiar with this (would lkie to know more...).

SSsssteamer 11-12-2017 12:27 AM

Re: My condensers are making me depressed
 

Change to another source of condensers. I had the same experience with the condensers repeatedly failing that I had purchased from a re-pop source. I changed suppliers and haven't had a problem since. Usually, with the old stock condensers I can easily get 25+ years out of them. That won't happen is this modern world with off their shore parts.

Kurt in NJ 11-12-2017 12:57 AM

Re: My condensers are making me depressed
 

I have been using the A&L condenser for 25+ years ---the same one, have tested it with red hot exhaust manifolds more than once, before that I had condenser problems and was quick at changing them.

Charlie Stephens 11-12-2017 01:03 AM

Re: My condensers are making me depressed
 

Go with A&L or Bratton's. I think they have two quality levels available. It goes without saying pay the higher price and get the best they have.

Charlie Stephens

Tom Wesenberg 11-12-2017 02:30 AM

Re: My condensers are making me depressed
 

Also make sure the thick insulating washer is under the screw head on the condenser brass post. If it's missing, the screw can bottom out and spin the brass condenser terminal before the screw is tight to the bus bar.

midgetracer 11-12-2017 10:54 AM

Re: My condensers are making me depressed
 

I use Snyders burn out proof condensers which I think are from A&L and have had zero problems. I had lots of NORS condensers from swap meets and they are mostly junk. Not worth the chance of being left at the side of the road.

Keith True 11-12-2017 11:46 AM

Re: My condensers are making me depressed
 

What am I missing on the voltage thing? I thought there was no such thing as a 6 or 12 volt condenser.I know they are different on microfarad rating,but I thought the condenser didn't care about the voltage.If you are using modern type points and condenser I have seen a lot of troubles with the new condensers.Ask the Mustang boys about the trouble they have been having in the last few years.For me,working on old tractors and such,I'm not changing a condenser unless it is a problem.I have more faith in a 30 year old one than a new one.If you buy new ones right from Ford you are going to get the same one you would get from Tractor supply,Steiners,Napa,or any other vendor.

Fordestes 11-12-2017 12:01 PM

Re: My condensers are making me depressed
 

Are the Mallory 400 condensers any good? I like most of what Mallory has produced almost all their parts seem to last, I never used their condensers though, as for now I am going to follow Bubbas' advice and purchase the current ones from Napa, I am just wondering if the Mallory 400 condensers are of good quality, Just for future reference.
Thanks Ford Barners for your advice.
Derral Estes

Tom Endy 11-12-2017 02:20 PM

Re: My condensers are making me depressed
 

1 Attachment(s)
Photo comparison of good and poor quality condensers. The one with three dots on the grounding strap is the good quality condenser. Most of the better suppliers carry them. I believe that the three dots are stake weld marks that attaché the strap. The other condenser has the strap soldered on.

In 30 years of driving a Model A almost daily I have experienced only one condenser failure and that was years ago when the engine overheated and the solder on the condenser strap melted and the strap sprung away from the base and the condenser lost its ground.

Condenser failure on a Model A is a thing of the past. The good quality condensers last forever. What I believe is being interpreted as condenser failure is actually an intermittent coil failure. There are poor quality reproduction coils around. What happens is the coil gets hot, the fine wires in the secondary winding expand with heat and short out. When the engine cools down the short goes away. However, by then the owner has installed a new condenser and is convinced that the problem was a bad condenser.

A couple years ago I bought a condenser checker on line that reads out the actual value. It was very inexpensive. It is called a Honytek model A6013L. Nominal condenser value is .287 micro farads

Tom Endy

Tom Endy 11-12-2017 02:34 PM

Re: My condensers are making me depressed
 

1 Attachment(s)
Attached is an article about the Honeytec condenser checker that appeared in the Victoria Bustle newsletter a while back,

Tom Endy

Kevin in NJ 11-12-2017 03:14 PM

Re: My condensers are making me depressed
 

So the meter you are showing tells you the value of capacitance.

Unfortunaltly that is useless.

I have had failed capacitors show correct values with one of those.
The capactors are 2 thin layers of foil separated by thin treated paper. This paper drys out and chemically changes with time and heat. They also do not work so well when they get warm. The better the chemistry of the divider the better the cap works. Often any new caps like the V8 ones people are getting are hit or miss depending on what the factory in China is using that day. For a few pennies more you can put a much better chemistry that can take lots of heat and still be happy.

Now what I use around the house. I like to fix stuff. I do board level repairs on electronics like pinball machines and arcade games. I even have a 1953 Seeburg Juke box, you get to learn about caps in those.

The ESR Meter shows the effective resistance of the capacitor in operation. As the cap drys out the "resistance" goes up. You get strange effects as the caps are starting to go bad. Some of you may have experienced weird memory problems with your older computers. That is likely the caps filtering the power there going bad. I have been fixing some computers from the 2008 time frame with bad caps. They start bludging on the top and you know they are bad, but get flaky before then.

The Sprage capacitor tester is a relic from the Tube days. It accurately shows value and condition of the capacitors. It has proved problem caps a few times for me in the past. They were just out of spec and causing odd operation.

Finally the tool that every club should have. This one is a Snap On coil tester. It is a bit harder to use as it does not have a capacitor test point separate. You have to know how to slip it in circuit. I like the others (my brother has them at his place right now) which let you put a condensor right on some terminals and check them.

In any case, you need to check a condensor at tempurature if you want to be sure it is good. Often they check bad when cold anyway.

Quite frankly I have not done much testing these days. The A condensers I tested regularly so there were known good ones under the seats of the A's we owned. Just put the A&L units on and never worry again.
For electronics I just replace capacitors cause I the ones that are bad or will be bad and do not waste time checking.

duke36 11-12-2017 08:31 PM

Re: My condensers are making me depressed
 

If coil issues as stated in post 13, oil filled coils are supposedly no longer made in the US due to EPA issues, evidently due to oil manufacturing costs, other mitigations. Most now made overseas , China, Brazil, India, etc. I have a new one that oil sloshes around inside. We've been told that epoxy coils don't dissipate heat very well (varying discussion about this) and the oil filled coils should be installed with terminals up, not down because the oil is not full in the coil and can't cool the secondary coil completely.

glenn in camino 11-12-2017 08:41 PM

Re: My condensers are making me depressed
 

Your problem is probably something other than the condenser.

Crankster 11-12-2017 09:00 PM

Re: My condensers are making me depressed
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin in NJ (Post 1551503)
So the meter you are showing tells you the value of capacitance ... Unfortunately that is useless.
For electronics I just replace capacitors cause I the ones that are bad or will be bad and do not waste time checking.

Pretty close to useless. Capacitors (condenser is the old name) need to be tested at their rated voltage, in this case probably 600 volts DC. An ohmeter or capacitance value tester won't do this. The older automotive tube radios had a "buffer" capacitor in the power supply, to smooth out the vibrator waveform iirc. It was rated at 1000 volts. I don't think they saw anywhere close to that, but that was the voltage rating they had to use for reliability, because of the materials they had to use. You can be sure if they could have got away with a lesser rated 400 volt part, they would have used it.

The waxed paper & foil capacitors used for coupling and bypass found in vintage electronics too are well known to cause trouble, they are always shorted or "leaky" to ground by now. I don't bother testing them on my Eico capacitor bridge either except for amusement.

What's interesting though is automotive condensers must have been made to a higher standard or used better materials. I have a half dozen or so of 50s and 60s era Echlin, Standard, and OE manufactured condensers and they all test perfect for leakage at 500 volts and spot on for value.

Jeff/Illinois 11-12-2017 09:42 PM

Re: My condensers are making me depressed
 

A&L condensors and Diode Cutouts, two good quality parts to hit the market.

JD 1931 11-13-2017 09:50 AM

Re: My condensers are making me depressed
 

I have a modern plate in my A and use NAPA' S best condenser . They might have original types too....(ecklin)


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