The rest of the story
 

From time to time I have made comments here on the FB about a '37 Ford 4dr sdn that my brother owns.. The car is a very nice "survivor" which my brother has owned since about 1974.
When my brother bought the car it was in excellent shape, obviously it had been repainted an original tan color and the interior appeared to be fairly new mohair.. The engine was a 24 stud flat-head, appearing to be original. The one unusual thing about the car was the brakes, they were '39-41 with original '37 wheels and hub caps.
When my brother moved to another state in 1981 taking the car with him, a certification of the serial number revealed that the number on the frame, a correct '37 number did not match the number on the title. The number on the title was also a correct '37 number.
It was obvious that an undocumented vehicle had been matched up with a title from unknown sources.
As time has passed my brother has convinced himself that the car is an original "barn find" with a very special "factory optioned hydraulic brakes".
Now the rest of the story:
I was at a car show yesterday, the first of the season in the area. While walking around the show I encountered a man, "Delbert", that I had not seen for almost twenty years. The man is very well known in the area, he loves Early Ford V8's, that is all he has driven in the fifty plus years that I have know him.
I made mention that my brother still owns the '37 Ford sedan which my brother had bought from him. Without any prompting on my part, Delbert told me the history of the '37 Ford.
"Delbert" bought the car from a man that had bought it, the car was a very low mileage car with just 50K on the odometer. The man did some mechanical work to the car, installing the hydraulic brakes, repainting the exterior and installing new mohair interior.
"Delbert" paid $1000. for the car, which was less that what the upholstery work had cost. "Delbert" gave the car to his wife, a school teacher, she drove the car to work, etc., every day for many years.
After about 10K of use the engine developed problems so "Delbert" pulled it out, since it was an early 21 stud engine, "Delbert" said he decided to replace it with a rebuilt 59AB engine using earlier unmarked heads so that it would look like a '41 or earlier 24 stud engine.
The new engine worked very well, especially with the 3.54 gear ratio in the rear end. "Delbert" told me that he drove the car in excess of 70 mph on many occasions.
The only reason that "Delbert" sold the car was because my brother had a very nice '36 Ford pickup that "Delbert" wanted.. They traded cars.

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Kinda' reminds me of the guy a few years ago that was trying to pass of an McCullough blown F1 ('48, I think) as a rare factory supercharged prototype.

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So what was the outcome of the title / serial number mismatch? Around here (admittedly 25 yrs later, different times) I think they'd confiscate the car! Is "Delbert" the one who used the wrong title?

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For what it's worth, a buddy of mine bought a trailer and some years later was contacted by a another guy who had also bought a trailer at the same dealership.

As it turns out, as far as the paperwork was concerned, they each owned each other's trailer. Kind of like a baby switched at birth!

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During the course of my conversation with "Delbert" on Sunday the question about the title came up. "Delbert" remembered that I had contacted him on behalf of my brother when the mismatched number issue came up in 1981.
"Delbert" had claimed in 1981 that he had any knowledge of there being a problem with the serial number (s), at the time the he owned the car, he had no need to check the numbers on the frame and/or title.
On Sunday "Delbert" was again mystified about the numbers issue. "Delbert" did not elaborate on how well he knew the man he had bought the car from, he did mention the man's name, but did not offer any info about if the man, as to if he would, or had, "married" the undocumented vehicle to a title with doubtful parentage.
My brother was able to prove via registration slips that he had owned the car for almost twenty years, cool heads prevailed, the state of Idaho accepted the number on the frame as being the correct number, this number or the number on the CA title did not show up in any data base, so the CA title was destroyed by the state and a new title issued with the frame number..
Foot note:
Had either of the '37's been been reported as stolen, and not recovered, or if there had been a lien recorded against them, which had not been cleared, the serial numbers would have been in a data base somewhere, that is how stolen cars/vehicles are now being recovered twenty-five to thirty-five years after the fact..

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Sounds like a nice old survivor with sensible upgrades and modifications made back in the day.

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Yes, the '37 is a survivor.. The average person, even a well versed Early Ford V8 person would never pickup on the few abnormalities.. Probably only a "concourse inspector" would even note the hydraulic brakes, and my brothers claim that the brakes were a special factory opinion would be accepted.
The later model engine would be very easy to overlook, earlier heads, correct paint color and accessories would do the trick.. Pretty hard to get a pencil on the front of the engine when it's down in the engine compartment..
I seem to recall an article that I recently read about a '37-38 Ford that was converted to hydraulic brakes by one of the Ford's, might have been Edsel..

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Bill......I'm trying really hard to wrap my head around your point, because it doesn't take a "concourse inspector" to notice the difference between a 21 stud engine (original to 1937) and a 24 stud 59A with "early" 24 stud heads. In addition, early "wide five" (1937-'39) drums work perfectly well with later, hydraulic backing plates. People do that swap all the time so that they can keep the authentic looking '37 wheels and hub caps......not a RARE re-do at all. The interesting question with that combination would be how the master cylinder was mounted, and whether or not the original pedal assembly was used, or if a '39 or '40 pedal assembly was substituted? Of course, if the pedals were substituted for the '39s or '40s, the pedals would have their corresponding LATER numbers emblazoned (forged) in the pedal arms, easily detectable by anyone with just a little knowledge of that sort of trivia. Hydraulic backing plates stand-out like a sore thumb compared with the '37 cable-operated backing plates. It sounds like ol' Delbert embellished his own easily-accomplished backyard mods, trying to possibly impress your brother, and it sorta sounds like ol' Delbert pulled it off quite convincingly. So, what am I missing? I don't see any rocket science involved on this one. DD

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I would like to ask the state paid buerocrates how a law passed in the mid 1990's can be applied to cars maufactured thirty to fifty years prior? I worked 30 years on the line at Ford. Up untill the Twin Towers first bombing, numbers were only a sugestion. If the line was running, and a number was mistakenly put on two frames, do you understand what would happen? NOTHING! Because it would mean to stop the line. If the engine was missing, you still dont stop the line. An engine can be put in later. Number one, DONT EVER stop the line. Screw the numbers. In defense of Ford; after the first bombing in New York City at the Twin Towers, new equipmant was brought in. Within hours, work was taken off a job to be sure the units had the correct serial numbers. Today, its a different world.

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How about a Photo? Would love to see it.

I own a 1937 Survivor too.
All original 1937 Ford parts except the generator/voltage reg/battery.

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I guess V8COOP-- Does not read to well.. In my original story I said that the '37 originally had a 21 stud engine (very typical for an early car). When the engine failed it was replaced with a 24 stud 59AB engine. Earlier unmarked 24 stud heads were used on the engine, "so that it would look like a '41 or earlier engine"..
The brakes on the car are a complete set of '39 brakes. I stated that the wheels, hubcaps were original '37's. The peddle assembly is a '39 unit.
I used the term "concourse" because the average person would be clueless as to what he was looking at. I can't for the life of me think that someone would take the time to crawl under the vehicle, checking the peddles to see what code number was stamped into them. (91A-2155 for '39) Most people would also not take the time to crawl under the car checking to see if the brakes were rod or cable operated.
As we all know, or should know, the '37's have an under dash hand brake in lieu of the floor lever like a '36 and earlier. The '37's also have a battery mount on the firewall in the engine compartment, therefore the battery does not interfere with a hydraulic master cylinder..
The point of my story is; If you retell a story often enough, it, in the mind of the telling party becomes fact. I have no intention to tell my brother about the recent info I have became privy to about his car, he is the kind of a guy that would not believe me, the whole subject would just end up in a big argument with him stomping off in a big huff.

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Post a photo-- would love to see your brother's car.

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I'll have to look through my photo albums to see if I can find a pix of brothers car..

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Great story
Thanks for sharing.

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Another great story. Heres mine, around 1970 I bought from a local
used car dealer a black 4dr 1936 ( no dings or rust) just a unmolested
used car for $400 and drove it away. He gave me the origional engine,
it was replaced with a 8BA. Drove it to work for 7 yrs and a local haunt
twisted me to sell it to him for $1000. I then bought a local 1941V8 2 dr
sedan for $150 bucks drove that one 5yrs and here comes my haunt again
sold it to him for $1100 I kick myself til this day This SOB had them
sold before he bought em from me. Then early 80's I came upon the
36 at a swap meet. While I'm checking it out this dispicable woman shouting &
proclaiming about no bondo and was school teacher car. So I say, where is the
drivers door window garnishing. She doesnt know. I say I got it cause this
was my car and I aint no old lady teacher. She wanted 5 grand for it. Till
this day that window surround hangs on the wall in our shop. Now at my
age, the 1970s was the other day, ya right a turn key 36 for 400 bucks.
Worst yet one of my classic failures. I traded a set of Ludwig drums for
a one owner low mile split window vett 327 FUEL INJECTED mint mint and
got only $950 in trade for a new 1970 coupe deville in which turned into a
turd with a pretty face that I drove directly to Lincoln Mercury and bought
a new Lincoln. Yes, a 25 yr old dope. Been retired for 15yrs and I'd kill
for a 1933-34 2 or 4 door = that aint going to happen with my monthly check period. So back to the machine shop I go. You think retiring means
boats & fishin poles, cold beers? forget it thats TV talk... So to get my
head screwed on right,I buy a 1923 Ford and now nobody going to talk me
out of it. Hmmm I maybe buried in it. thinkin out loud again

sam

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So your brother still thinks he has a very rare car with factory hydraulic brakes? Installed two years before Ford started putting them on ALL the other cars?

Classic.