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-   -   Those were the days.... (https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=288115)

Steve Plucker 10-03-2020 05:44 PM

Those were the days....
 

As I am cleaning up around here I came across a box of upholstery that I used in restoring my 1929 Standard Coupe back in 1980.

In it was the receipt. The product was from Le Barron Bonney from December 1980. It was 2 yards of Plain Brown Cloth used for the door panels, quarters, back, seat back, roof rails, windshield header, and package tray. Very nice quality. The cost at the time was $14.00/yard.

I wonder what that same material is valued at today?

Pluck

Sunnybrook Farm 10-03-2020 08:54 PM

Re: Those were the days....
 

The dollar is worth a tenth of what it was back in the 70s so you would have to put it in today's money I guess. When the Model A was new the money was backed by gold and silver, that is why coins would get worn down, they were constantly circulated because they had lots of value back then, now they just get thrown in a jar and have no wear.

katy 10-03-2020 11:05 PM

Re: Those were the days....
 

$14 in 1980 is worth $44.16 today

https://www.in2013dollars.com/us/inf...was%2013.50%25.

700rpm 10-03-2020 11:06 PM

Re: Those were the days....
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sunnybrook Farm (Post 1937831)
The dollar is worth a tenth of what it was back in the 70s so you would have to put it in today's money I guess. When the Model A was new the money was backed by gold and silver, that is why coins would get worn down, they were constantly circulated because they had lots of value back then, now they just get thrown in a jar and have no wear.

Those gold coins were also filed on their edges to create gold dust. Not enough to make the coins non-negotiable, just enough to build up a small pouch of dust over time.

Bruce of MN 10-04-2020 05:58 AM

Re: Those were the days....
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by katy (Post 1937858)

Ha, the ratio is darn near Pi !

kbinde2 10-04-2020 06:16 AM

Re: Those were the days....
 

Pi not round.. Pi r square..! I couldn't resist. kb

shew01 10-04-2020 07:00 AM

Those were the days....
 

Macís sells its Cartouche Victoria upholstery kit for $2150.95.

https://www.macsautoparts.com/ford_m...-material.html

And that obviously does not include labor.

What makes the fabric so expensive?

I see the kit includes interior panels (cardboard and fiberboard are not that expensive), some padding, some felt, hog rings, etc. $2150 just seems a tad steep for what it would likely cost to produce. Maybe Iím missing something.

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katy 10-04-2020 09:17 AM

Re: Those were the days....
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by 700rpm (Post 1937859)
Those gold coins were also filed on their edges to create gold dust. Not enough to make the coins non-negotiable, just enough to build up a small pouch of dust over time.

That's why they put the little ridges around the edge.

McMimmcs 10-04-2020 11:27 AM

Re: Those were the days....
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by shew01 (Post 1937898)
Macís sells its Cartouche Victoria upholstery kit for $2150.95.

https://www.macsautoparts.com/ford_m...-material.html

And that obviously does not include labor.

What makes the fabric so expensive?

I see the kit includes interior panels (cardboard and fiberboard are not that expensive), some padding, some felt, hog rings, etc. $2150 just seems a tad steep for what it would likely cost to produce. Maybe Iím missing something.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I think you missed the Labor portion which is very expensive!

shew01 10-04-2020 05:45 PM

Re: Those were the days....
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by McMimmcs (Post 1938005)
I think you missed the Labor portion which is very expensive!


I didnít miss the labor part. It was in my post.


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Licensed to kill 10-04-2020 06:27 PM

Re: Those were the days....
 

The price in dollars is irrelevant. What matters is how many hours you had/have to work to buy it.

1930-Pickup 10-05-2020 01:41 AM

Re: Those were the days....
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bruce of MN (Post 1937885)
Ha, the ratio is darn near Pi !

That's just circle logic :D

77Birdman 10-05-2020 06:59 AM

Re: Those were the days....
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by shew01 (Post 1937898)
Macís sells its Cartouche Victoria upholstery kit for $2150.95.

https://www.macsautoparts.com/ford_m...-material.html

And that obviously does not include labor.

What makes the fabric so expensive?

I see the kit includes interior panels (cardboard and fiberboard are not that expensive), some padding, some felt, hog rings, etc. $2150 just seems a tad steep for what it would likely cost to produce. Maybe Iím missing something.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I have no knowledge on the said kit but it does sound a bit outrageous for the sum of its parts. To the OP's original question, that same fabric is still probably WORTH $15-$20 a yard! I wouldnt have an idea how many yards it would take for a Victoria, you have to pay to play!!
Kinda the same thing as to why a top of the line Harley is close to $50k!!!! a whole let less goes into one of them than a full size car/suv that you can get for the same price.

40 Deluxe 10-05-2020 09:38 AM

Re: Those were the days....
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Licensed to kill (Post 1938137)
The price in dollars is irrelevant. What matters is how many hours you had/have to work to buy it.




Good point! (often overlooked)

Joe K 10-05-2020 11:54 AM

Re: Those were the days....
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by kbinde2 (Post 1937887)
Pi not round.. Pi r square..! I couldn't resist. kb

Finished up as a declaration with "Cornbread are square."

Lived the life (engineer) for 43 years.

"An engineer is a person who will do for one dollar - what any fool would do for two."

This can be taken two ways.

Joe K

Benson 10-06-2020 12:34 PM

Re: Those were the days....
 

,,,

McMimmcs 10-06-2020 08:34 PM

Re: Those were the days....
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by shew01 (Post 1938122)
I didnít miss the labor part. It was in my post.


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I wasnít talking installation labor, I was talking labor
To manufacture the kit !

Brubaker 10-08-2020 10:54 PM

Re: Those were the days....
 

In that same vein (with a slight detour), I have regretted not buying an interior kit from Le Barron Bonney while I could. Is there other 'A' supplies/services that should be taken advantage of 'while we still can'? We all have our favorite 'carburetor guy', 'shock guy', etc, so I'm thinking more of material/parts/tools that we still have access to before we're forced to buy (at a much lesser quality) overseas.

Tom Foster 10-09-2020 03:53 AM

Re: Those were the days....
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by shew01 (Post 1938122)
I didnít miss the labor part. It was in my post.


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I think we're missing the labor cost of producing the kit -- cutting, measuring. All that goes into the box you get.
YOUR labor is added to that to put it on the car.
Fearless

BRENT in 10-uh-C 10-09-2020 10:00 AM

Re: Those were the days....
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Plucker (Post 1937779)
The cost at the time was $14.00/yard.

I wonder what that same material is valued at today?

Quote:

Originally Posted by katy (Post 1937858)

Ironically your estimated value is not too far off as this is retail in 2020...

https://www.macsautoparts.com/ford_m...rd-437193.html



Quote:

Originally Posted by shew01 (Post 1937898)
Mac’s sells its Cartouche Victoria upholstery kit for $2150.95.

https://www.macsautoparts.com/ford_m...-material.html

And that obviously does not include labor.

What makes the fabric so expensive?

I see the kit includes interior panels (cardboard and fiberboard are not that expensive), some padding, some felt, hog rings, etc. $2150 just seems a tad steep for what it would likely cost to produce. Maybe I’m missing something.

Jonathon, I can't believe you would be asking that question after just spending half the day with us. To begin with, you apparently do not realize what all is on the list of the components that you receive for the $2,200, -however I think the bottom line is you are naÔve about about the length of time it takes to turn some fabric, some panelboard, and some padding into a useable resemblance of what is supposed to be there.

Since you mentioned interior panels, let's use a door panel on your Victoria as an example. So a piece of good panelboard is about $11.00 delivered but it comes in 32"x48" size. I cannot order it in a Ford 190A Victoria size from my supplier. Therefore someone must cut it to the proper size and shape. The next issue is that it is one solid piece that has no provision for the door handle nor the window regulator handle. So not only do we need to cut the panelboard to the proper shape and make the edges follow the contour of the door, we now must cut two openings for the handles in the correct locations. No big deal until you miss the centerline of those holes by 1/16th of an inch! :eek: Also, be shoddy with the craftsmanship of the cutting, and you will either have a panel that extends past the door and rubs on the jamb area, --or it is cut too short and you see the inside of the door. Either way is unacceptable in my view.

So now we also need to modify the panelboard to accept the door clips which will provide the blind attachment clips a place to position too. How do you propose to get all those holes into the panelboard? Personally we use a scale to measure for locations and a special hole punch to insert the hole in the panel board, but again haste will make waste. I would need to verify on the print but I am guessing around 20 holes must be placed for the typical 190A door panel. Now we need to do the layout for the recessed door pocket. So all time totaled thus far, here we are a couple of hours into this one panel before we are even ready to install some padding or covering. Now go count the amount of panels it will take to cover everything from the two cowl kick panels all the way around the rear of the cabin.

Next, ...if you want an eye-opener, go count-up the pieces it takes to manufacture just once seat cover (correctly). You will need 6 for a 190A bodystyle. It takes time to layout the piece goods in the proper bias or graining direction, make sure the patterns are properly nested onto the roll, make all the cuts are correctly sized to avoid puckers or tight areas, pin the pieces together and then stitch the pieces together without wrinkles or shortages.

Of all the disciplines that we do in-house at my shop (-and think you have physically seen that we pretty much do them all here), I can tell you that us learning how to correctly do the Upholstery & Trim work has by far been the toughest area to learn and master.

katy 10-09-2020 10:14 AM

Re: Those were the days....
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by shew01 (Post 1937898)
Macís sells its Cartouche Victoria upholstery kit for $2150.95.

https://www.macsautoparts.com/ford_m...-material.html

That link takes me to a Corvette site.

Steve Plucker 10-09-2020 12:34 PM

Re: Those were the days....
 

So I went to the Cartouche website to see just what the material sold for today.

In 1980 it was $14.00 per yard...Today, that same material is $44.95 per yard.

KATY Got it right!

Pluck

Licensed to kill 10-09-2020 04:40 PM

Re: Those were the days....
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Plucker (Post 1939783)
So I went to the Cartouche website to see just what the material sold for today.

In 1980 it was $14.00 per yard...Today, that same material is $44.95 per yard.

KATY Got it right!

Pluck

So the value of the material has not changed.

shew01 10-09-2020 07:07 PM

Those were the days....
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by katy (Post 1939739)
That link takes me to a Corvette site.


Yup. Eklerís ownes a bunch of unrelated car sites. The link is broken now, but it worked when I posted it.

Here is a link from another vendor that has the same price.

https://www.mikes-afordable.com/prod...31-UA11N3.html


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

shew01 10-09-2020 07:26 PM

Those were the days....
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C (Post 1939733)
Ironically your estimated value is not too far off as this is retail in 2020...

https://www.macsautoparts.com/ford_m...rd-437193.html





Jonathon, I can't believe you would be asking that question after just spending half the day with us. To begin with, you apparently do not realize what all is on the list of the components that you receive for the $2,200, -however I think the bottom line is you are naÔve about about the length of time it takes to turn some fabric, some panelboard, and some padding into a useable resemblance of what is supposed to be there.

Since you mentioned interior panels, let's use a door panel on your Victoria as an example. So a piece of good panelboard is about $11.00 delivered but it comes in 32"x48" size. I cannot order it in a Ford 190A Victoria size from my supplier. Therefore someone must cut it to the proper size and shape. The next issue is that it is one solid piece that has no provision for the door handle nor the window regulator handle. So not only do we need to cut the panelboard to the proper shape and make the edges follow the contour of the door, we now must cut two openings for the handles in the correct locations. No big deal until you miss the centerline of those holes by 1/16th of an inch! :eek: Also, be shoddy with the craftsmanship of the cutting, and you will either have a panel that extends past the door and rubs on the jamb area, --or it is cut too short and you see the inside of the door. Either way is unacceptable in my view.

So now we also need to modify the panelboard to accept the door clips which will provide the blind attachment clips a place to position too. How do you propose to get all those holes into the panelboard? Personally we use a scale to measure for locations and a special hole punch to insert the hole in the panel board, but again haste will make waste. I would need to verify on the print but I am guessing around 20 holes must be placed for the typical 190A door panel. Now we need to do the layout for the recessed door pocket. So all time totaled thus far, here we are a couple of hours into this one panel before we are even ready to install some padding or covering. Now go count the amount of panels it will take to cover everything from the two cowl kick panels all the way around the rear of the cabin.

Next, ...if you want an eye-opener, go count-up the pieces it takes to manufacture just once seat cover (correctly). You will need 6 for a 190A bodystyle. It takes time to layout the piece goods in the proper bias or graining direction, make sure the patterns are properly nested onto the roll, make all the cuts are correctly sized to avoid puckers or tight areas, pin the pieces together and then stitch the pieces together without wrinkles or shortages.

Of all the disciplines that we do in-house at my shop (-and think you have physically seen that we pretty much do them all here), I can tell you that us learning how to correctly do the Upholstery & Trim work has by far been the toughest area to learn and master.


Brent,

If *each* upholstery kit is a custom cut, I would agree with your point. Certainly, I see in your shop there is a ton of your shopís labor involved in painstakingly making sure that every part fits properly on a customerís car, as it should be, to turn out a high quality product.

However, the kits that I have seen online Iím thinking are standardized copies made from templates that the manufacturerís already has in stock. I would think that the labor required to cut the fabric would not be that expensive presumably because the resulting manufactured product would be essentially just a ďtraceĒ (for lack of a better term) of the preexisting templates.

One thing for sure that I did not consider is the amount that vendors likely mark up the wholesale manufactured product for retail sales. From what I understand, 100% markups can be common for certain retail products, and I understand everyone has to make a profit to stay in business. I donít know if 100% markups are common in upholstery kits or not. Iíve been told that sometimes upholstered furniture can be marked up 300%.

All I know for sure is folks will charge what the market will bear. So, $2,150 must be the ďbearableĒ price. Customers wouldnít pay it if they didnít think the product was worth it. As I understand it, that $2,150 does not appear to include any custom labor that would be required to tailor the standardized kit to the customerís car. A while back, someone indicated that additional installation labor could cost another $2,000 or so.

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