Composition of "Rustless Steel"
 

Does anyone know how the composition of 1930 "Rustless Steel" compares with today's SAE grades (e.g., 304, 316)? I need to have a tear in my radiator shell welded up and the welder was wondering what filler to use. He will likely use 309 unless there is a better match.

Thanks, folks.

JayJay

Re: Composition of "Rustless Steel"
 

As far as I know this is the same as Stainless.....Stain LESS and Rust LESS are just different terms for the same thing. Chromium and Nickel give it the Stain LESS qualities.

316 Stainless Steel Chemistry

Carbon
0.035 %

Chromium
16 - 20 %

Manganese
2 %

Molybdenum
2 - 3 %

Nickel
10 - 15 %

Phosphorus
0.04 %

Silicon
0.75 %

Sulfur
0.03 %

Re: Composition of "Rustless Steel"
 

The only way you can come close on color match is to get a junk shell and have your welder practice on it with various rods. Might start with 347.

Re: Composition of "Rustless Steel"
 

Or cut a couple of strips from that old junk shell and have the welder use that for filler rod.

Joe B

Re: Composition of "Rustless Steel"
 

That can be done, but filler rod has de oxidizers which help keep the molten puddle clean so you don't have a weld bead with a lot of oxidation in it which will actually lead to rusting.

Re: Composition of "Rustless Steel"
 

I recently welded and restored a radiator shell for a fine point car I am restoring. I will check my notes tomorrow at my shop and see what rod I wound up using. You can absolutely not see where it was welded.

Chris W.

Re: Composition of "Rustless Steel"
 

Obviously an experienced professional.

Re: Composition of "Rustless Steel"
 

Technology is your friend:
https://sciaps.com/xrf-handheld-x-ra...SAAEgJQf_D_BwE

Re: Composition of "Rustless Steel"
 

Thanks, all, and thanks especially Chris for looking up that rod. I eagerly await your counsel. Fortunately most of the split is in the section at the bottom that is painted, so metal color won't be important there (painted over). But a bit of the split extends to the shaped section underneath the crank cover (that's going to be a challenge to grind once the new material is in!), but again if it's a slightly different color then the shape will help disguise it.

On the shell on my pickup (bright, not black) there are a couple of places where cracks were welded up, you can see the backup bead on the inside but ground/polished invisible on the outside. So whoever did that got an excellent match as well. That was 40+ years ago by a welder whose identity is long lost to history, so no help there.

Thanks again. And the results will be forever memorialized in the forum.

JayJay

Re: Composition of "Rustless Steel"
 

I used 308 S/S .035 dia rod with very good results

Re: Composition of "Rustless Steel"
 

Chris, you're a prince! Thanks a million, I sent your info over to my welder.



JayJay

Re: Composition of "Rustless Steel"
 

Old SAE designations for stainless specified the percentage of its principal alloys. For example 18-8 Stainless Steel has 18% Chrome & 8% Nickle. Currently, 18-8 is 302 Stainless. I do not know the specific composition of Allegheny Metal used in the Model A.

The Model A featured Allegheny Metal, a product of Allegheny Steel & Iron. Incorporated in 1901, Allegheny Steel & Iron was the first company to use the electric furnace in manufacturing alloys. The company commercialized stainless steel in the United States, winning its first patent in 1924. Besides its use in the Model A, stainless from Allegheny Steel was used to cap New York’s iconic Chrysler Building. The company merged with the Ludlum Steel Company in 1938 to become the Allegheny Ludlum Steel Corporation.

Re: Composition of "Rustless Steel"
 

I passed on Chris's experience and my welder used 308 rod. I will pick the shell up today and still have quite a bit of grinding, filing and polishing to do before I see how well the color matches. Hope to get to that this weekend. But initially it looks pretty good.

Like Bob, I ran into a dead end when I attempted to find out the composition of "Allegheny Metal" using the usual definitive source (aka Google). I'm pretty sure if this was critical (aka there was a lawsuit about it!) that additional digging could find out. Or cut a small piece from a scrap shell and have it analyzed. But it's welded now, we have a starting point for a proper filler rod, and we move on.

Thanks to all the Barners who contributed to this. I'll post before, during and after photos when I get it done.

JayJay

Re: Composition of "Rustless Steel"
 

In my 1945 copy of "American Machinists Handbook" (Colvin and Stanley), it lists the properties (Steel Analysis, Pecentage) of all the metals used by Ford. Included, there is Rustless steel 18-8 for pump shafts, Rustless 18 for hardware and Rustless type II (no notation of it's use).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Americ...ts%27_Handbook

Re: Composition of "Rustless Steel"
 

I read that Ford initially had difficulty forming stainless steel sheet metal parts, and it took some iteration to get the alloy and process suitable for mass production. i suspect that Ford added to the chemistry of stainless steel to improve its machinability. Perhaps Ford added Molybdenum which is a lubricant that benefits tooling life.

I am curious what the drawings for the radiator shell, headlights, etc specify for the stock of these parts. Does anyone have access to Ford's drawings of these parts.

Re: Composition of "Rustless Steel"
 

My copy, 1926, that my Dad (Mechanical Engineer at Ford) gave me, when I started my Metallurgical Engineering degree, talks about stainless steel, but doesn't give give the percentages.

Re: Composition of "Rustless Steel"
 

Well, you guys got me thinking. I have several copies of Machinery's Handbook around, but the earliest I could easily put my fingers on was 18th edition (1968). It lists properties of dozens of stainless alloys, but nothing identified as "Allegheny Metal". I could swear I had a Handbook that I inherited from my dad, which would have been late 1930's to early 1940's, but can't find it (may be at my office, I'm working from home).

Kind of an interesting project...

JayJay

Re: Composition of "Rustless Steel"
 

This is a great topic as this is why I bought my TIG welder, so that I could weld one my Rad shells.


Thanks,


Mike