97 carb hesitation
 

Just took delivery of a 1941 Ford Coupe with what I believe is the original 11A 221 cid flathead. It has a 6V in-line Facet fuel pump and no external regulator. Still looking for fuel pump specs. When purchased, the car was idling around 1200 rpm with the idle screws about 1 1/4 turns out and with the accelerator pump in the "severe cold" hole. Gas weeping from somewhere. Really nasty off-idle hesitation. Plugs are very black. Not undriveable but very unpleasant.



Reset accelerator pump to "summer" hole, reset idle speed to about 600 rpm, adjusted idle mixture because when I slowed it down the exhaust turned black. Idles fine but screws are only about 1/4 turn out. Very odd. Still have a lot of gas weeping from somewhere. Right through the idle screws is one place; they seem moist to the touch. No change in hesitation or driveability. My assessment is that gas must be leaking inside the carb as well as outside which is why it likes only a quarter turn out on mixture screws. With only a quarter turn out, the transition circuit probably isn't working correctly. Accelerator pump could be bad too. Maybe a bad power valve and/or float needle/seat and/or bushings as well.



Looked at the Edlebrock rebuild kit for a Holley 94. Not really too much in it. It might help but would not be surprised if it doesn't. I'm very tempted to give up on this carb and just get a new one but will probably go through the motions of the rebuild kit. I'll check the rated fuel pressure of the electric pump, maybe it's too high. Would prefer not to use an electric fuel pump but the mechanical pump doesn't seem to be able to pull enough fuel through the electric pump when I turn it off. Don't know if it should be able to do that or if the mechanical fuel pump is good or bad.



Thoughts or suggestions on a path forward would be appreciated. I'd rather pay for a new carb to get on the road now rather than spend a month trying and possibly failing to make this old one work right.

Re: 97 carb hesitation
 

Welcome aboard! I suggest sending your carb to CharlieNY on here. You won't be able to send him a private message on here until you have 10 posts, so you can e-mail him at [email protected]. Charlie really knows the 94 carbs.

Re: 97 carb hesitation
 

Car should run fine with a properly functioning stock fuel pump. I’ve had antiques for 40+ years, never used an electric fuel pump. NEVER had starting problems cold, hot or after sitting 4-5 weeks.

Re: 97 carb hesitation
 

I'll second the nomination of Charlie NY to solve your problems for you. He just did my carb and fuel pump. Everything is top notch now. I have an electric fuel pump I used to use for priming, but no more. Go with Charlie NY. Great guy to know and do business with. Trust a guy who has been dealing with these old Fords for over FIFTY (50) years. (Tim Carlig is just a young whipper snapper.) LOL

Re: 97 carb hesitation
 

That's kind of what I was thinking. It sure wasn't manufactured with an electric fuel pump but maybe some previous owner installed it to overcome some sort of problem; maybe vapor lock.


I could buy a mechanical pump rebuild kit and install it; doesn't cost too much or look too hard. Then bypass the electric fuel pump with a piece of hose. Your reply implies I'm likely to be just as well off, if not better.


Being new to the flathead world, one week, I don't yet know where the majority of opinion and experience is on the necessity for the electric fuel pump. Your forty years without sounds like something I should listen to.

Re: 97 carb hesitation
 

Since you say you are "new to the flathead world", are you aware that Ford did not use a Stromberg 97 carburetor in 1941? It should have a Holley 94. If you find you have to replace (or do major work to) the carburetor, you would be better off installing the proper original type carburetor.

And "Charlie ny" is the man for that job.

Re: 97 carb hesitation
 

My bad. I said 97 in the topic name but 94 in the text. It's a Model 59 Holley 94.

Re: 97 carb hesitation
 

SoCal,
If all goes well a kit rebuild can get you by. Many times problems will crop up due to wear, previous rebuilds and mixing of components that a kit won't address. My 8BA
test motor is invaluable to me to sort thru issues on rebuilds BUT FUBAR's still occur.
Charlie ny
716 440 8952

Re: 97 carb hesitation
 

Charlie ny, thanks for taking the time to reply. You've convinced me; I just ordered a rebuild kit to hopefully get me on the road where I can think a little bit deeper about what I want to do with this car.


Question though, I've read that there can be a problem with bevels(?) on power valves and that you sell power valves that fix this problem. Should I expect this problem with the kit I just ordered?




I'll follow Dean's lead too. I've decided to bypass the electric fuel pump and have a mechanical rebuild kit handy in case there's a problem with that pump.

Re: 97 carb hesitation
 

How did that priming work? Did you have an electric in-line pump on the same line as the mechanical pump? You just turned it off when you were done priming? Your mechanical pump pumped through the in-line pump?

Re: 97 carb hesitation
 

Try a master rebuild kit from vintage speed

Re: 97 carb hesitation
 

Have Charlie rebuild it, see my thread
https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showt...8008&showall=1

It may need more than a kit.

Re: 97 carb hesitation
 

Uncle max also does great work on strombergs an is a dealer

Re: 94 carb hesitation
 

This is still not going well.



Been trying to think several steps ahead and have parts on hand to move more than one step at a time with a week between steps waiting for new parts. I now have two carb kits (ordered a second because I couldn't wait for the first one to arrive) and a fuel pump kit but haven't used any of them.


Took some advice to get back to basics and try running the car with just the mechanical fuel pump. First I just tried to run it with the electric pump turned off. No dice.



Then bypassed the electric pump with a rubber fuel line. No dice; no gas getting to the carb. Not surprised because I think the electric pump is flow-through. Like I said, I had thought ahead a bit and had a fuel pump rebuild kit on hand. Pump looks like it's only a year or two old.


Tried operating the pump by hand with my finger over the intake; no suction whatsoever. Don't know whether this is a valid test or not.


The diaphragm and check valves look pliable and new. My thought now is that it's the check valves even though they look ok.


Opened up the pump and the valves are stamped in. No retainer clip and hold-down screw. Looks like I'd probably wreck the pump trying to pry them out and likely not be able to get the new ones to seal or stay in. Of course I could replace the just diaphragm and see what happens but am betting that just replacing the diaphragm won't work. I'd rather get a $30 refund on the unused rebuild kit with the check valves I can't use rather than replace the diaphragm and turn right around the same day and throw the pump away. (Yeah, I'm cheap.)



Is the next step a new mechanical fuel pump?


I"m really going backwards here. At least I was getting fuel with the electric pump. Having read a lot about defective mechanical fuel pumps out of the box, (too much pressure, parts that break down from ethanol fuel, surfaces that warp and won't mate) I'm very tempted to just get a regulator and pressure gauge for the electric pump, plumb it back in, and move on to the carburetor.

Re: 97 carb hesitation
 

Again, "Charlie ny" is the optimum solution in situations such as this.

Re: 97 carb hesitation
 

Keep the rebuild kit, in time you may need it. Keep the pump too, it has turned out to be a great teaching tool.

Re: 97 carb hesitation
 

Yes to all three questions. I had to use it again today to prime the fuel pump. It has been sitting for close to 3 weeks. I'll leave the electric pump on "just in the case of".

Re: 97 carb hesitation
 

Real progress today! Mechanical fuel pump is still bad but reinstalled the working electric fuel pump with a fuel pressure regulator and pressure gauge. Fuel pressure set to 2.5 psi. No more fuel running down the outside of the carb from the fuel bowl gasket and was able to set the idle mixture more or less correctly. Still a wicked hesitation off idle that makes it a devil to drive. If I had to guess, I'd say bad accelerator pump. I'll rebuild the carb next weekend with the new accelerator pump. As said previously, the mechanical fuel pump is a throwaway because the check valves can't be replaced. Likely get one sometime in the future when I know exactly what I'm going to do with the car.

Re: 97 carb hesitation
 

just my 2 cents fuel pressure is critical as these carbs where originally designed for gravity flow [so 0 psi] next is fuel level again critical to overall performance as this effects all operations of the carb across the board next is timing correct distributor operation and spark quality and plug quality its one hell of a balancing act as they all depend on one another So all you can do is start at one end and methodically work your way through

Re: 97 carb hesitation
 

Holley 94's and Stromberg 97's were never used in gravity flow set ups. and even gravity flow is more than 0 PSI. (1/2 PSI per foot of head pressure).

Sal