Airconditioning for Model A
 

With this hot weather maybe being the norm for the next few years I am forced to consider the possibility of A/C for the fordor sedan in my avatar. I am in the middle of a frame up restoration so major mods would be possible tho not desirable. Does anyone have an opinion or design for an installation. Ideally it should be reversable so there would be no sign of it if I took it out later. I think I might need a high compression head like 5.5 or 6.0 to run a compressor. Where would the compressor be mounted and how much would such a setup cost. And of coarse - who has the parts? Thanks for any help Bill G

Re: Airconditioning for Model A
 

Don't have the answer to all your questions, but the company is "Vintage Air."

Re: Airconditioning for Model A
 

I saw a guy at Macungie a few years back with an original or older resto Fordor; had a Honda generator on the luggage rack, and a small window A/C unit hung on the driver's rear door, with some cribbing down to the running board to brace it....

Not pretty, but I'll bet he stayed cool !

Re: Airconditioning for Model A
 

I've seen discussions of a few w/ac. Believe they were in texas. Someone should chime in.
Paul in CT

Re: Air conditioning for Model A
 

Re: Airconditioning for Model A
 

I agree. Ken Davis is the man to go to. He builds AC's for Model A's, and model A's only. His compressors don't have any affect on the performance of the motor. I will hopefully have one of his units before next summer. I have driven several peoples cars with his AC units, and it freezes you out of there. And if you ever decide to take it out, there are no signs of it ever being in the car.

Re: Airconditioning for Model A
 

Try this for one third the price;

Re: Airconditioning for Model A
 

theres a few guys down here in Central Florida in the local club running AC. they said they got their kits from a guy in Arizona i think. he puts a kit together using different parts that work well on the As. Its kind of a neat kit, the compessor mounts under the hood and everything else mounts behind the rear exle under the car. I believe it runs about $1100. It comes with the vents and controls all together in a unit that they mounted under the gas tank but it may be possible to hide it under the front seat with them sticking out from under the seat. ill try to get more info for you.

Re: Airconditioning for Model A
 

That window unit is probably one of the most ridiculous things ive seen. Must feel really good though.

Re: Airconditioning for Model A
 

CALL KEN DAVIS!!!!! He makes the only, and best set up for the model a that is truly ment for the model a. He has been making them for 20+ years, and knows what he is doing. His Brackets are set up so that it will leave no traces of ever being there if you want to remove it. Vintage air, will work, but not very good in a 4 door. Their condinsor is not big enough. Kens is a bolt on application, that will take you one solid day of work and it will freeze your ass off in the back seat of your sedan. The website is kendavismodela.com and he is in colleyville texas. Ask anybody who has one, they are NEVER dissapointed.

Re: Airconditioning for Model A
 

Sounds like ken davis' unit. UNDER THE SEAT WILL NOT WORK, he has already tried that. It will freeze you ankles off, but the top of the car will never get cool, and if your head isnt cool you body will never cool down. Therefore the airconditioning is a waste of money. They way kens is mounted. its low enough to cool the floor board but aimed upwards to cool the top of the car. Works GREAT.

Re: Airconditioning for Model A
 

This guy now has one of kens units also, the window unit didnt work out so well for him after that trip.

Re: Airconditioning for Model A
 

oh ok thanks for the info. I havent asked the guys running the ac any questions about them so i dont know too much i just know they are out there.

Re: Airconditioning for Model A
 

I'm running a Ken Davis A/C unit in my Cabriolet. It's the only way to go. I installed it myself in the Driveway. The key tool you will need for installation will be a Vacuum Pump to suck all the atmospheric air out of the system before filling with freon. The solution to acquiring that tool is go to Autozone and rent it for FREE. Yup. $0. Just a deposit that you get back when you return it.

Also, the key to getting cold air in the car is to not feed the evap unit under the dash hot air. So, insulate that floorboard and firewall really well and it will work much better. The cooler the air you feed the vents, the easier time it has making that air colder when it blows in your face.

What you are getting is a plate that mounts to the generator mount and one of the water pump bolts. Then on that plate mounts the A/C compressor at the top, and your 12V alternator at the bottom. You must convert to 12V. You also get custom hoses made for Model As that are long that extend back to the condenser radiator and electric fan mounted behind your rear axle and you also get brackets to mount the dryer by the steering box. Also there is a bracket that allows you to mount the hang down evaporator unit below your gas tank.

It's a great kit that you will be happy with, and your passengers will enjoy, too!!

Re: Airconditioning for Model A
 

Elrod,
Any chance of getting a picture or two of the set up? I would like to see the engine area and back by the rear axle...

Thanks,
Tim

Re: Airconditioning for Model A
 

The web site is no longer active. Is there other contact info for Ken Davis?

Re: Airconditioning for Model A
 

Re: Airconditioning for Model A
 

For Ken Davis try: [email protected]

Re: Airconditioning for Model A
 

I did not like the way the Ken Davis kit mounted or the hose runs. Did my own design with some major changes from the way Ken Davis does his. I have put A/C in my 31 coupe and it works well. Just finished putting A/C in the Slant windshied 4 dr. The A/C was planed in the S/W from the ground up. Lots of insulation and brackets and mounting were designed and installed as the resroation was done.

On each car I am running a HC head and there is negligible (sp) pull on the engine at all or any speed. In fact on the coupe engine (Brumfield head) when the compressor kicks in while engine is at idel the tachometer does not change. She idles at 550 rpm.

Compressor and alternator mounting bracket is mounted to the what was the generator mount and is braced to one of the water pump bolts with a built in adjusting slide. It is a one piece bracket that holds both units. Condensor mounts under the body - behind the differeintail -oops sp. total cost for compressor condensor evaporator hoses drier brackets was around $1100.

In the Texas heat my wife says it is a necessary -- and I kinda agree.

Re: Airconditioning for Model A
 

for more info email me at [email protected] or call 903 963-1650. Ken

Re: Airconditioning for Model A
 

Open your windshield, drink lots of water, and wear one of those wet neck things from the outdoorsman store. You'll stay cool and save money you can spend on other Model A things.

Re: Airconditioning for Model A
 

Could you post some pictures. Thanks

Re: Airconditioning for Model A
 

Hi Bill, I installed a Ken Davis A/C unit in my 31 slant town sedan, just before we drove to Vancover BC for the MAFCA meet. It was a suprise FROM my wife!
Ken makes a quailty kit, easy to install, includes instructions!
Round trip for the meet was just shy of 2200 miles.
The A/C unit worked like a champ, first night was Yreaka CA we pulled into town about 5:30 in the afternoon it was 97 and we very comfortable in the T/S, can't say the same for the others in our club who drove their A's!

As you are restoring your T/S add insulation on all 6 sides, top bottom sides and front and rear, now is the time to do it before you install your interior.

Herb Neumann
Concord CA

Re: Airconditioning for Model A
 

http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/h...r/IMG_0143.jpg
A/C 1920's style. of course it a little wet for the passenger. This evaporate air cooling venturi thing was in the rumble seat when the guy purchased this car in Arizona. Pic taken in Ellison Bay, Wisconsin.

skip.

Re: Airconditioning for Model A
 

I took some pictures this weekend, but left the memory card at home today. Disclaimer is that I added the kit to a barn find cabby with a 50 year old resto on it, so don't ding me for the dirty engine compartment. This one is a driver!
Note to self: "Remember the photos. Remember the photos!!"

Re: Airconditioning for Model A
 

use this guy . complete ready to install your self . about a 2hp loss ....... steve

http://www.kendavismodela.com/index.html

Re: Airconditioning for Model A
 

This is Ken Davis I was informed of this post Sat. and was told I might want to respond. I was not able to post and Ryan fixed that for me today. I have been building A/C kits since 1989. I was originally told that A/Cs would not work in Model A's, but after building one for my 29 pickup & my dad's 28 fordoor that worked everyone wanted one. In the beginning I just sold brackets when we were using the old freon this usuallly worked. A lot of people bought used junk yard junk and you do get what you pay for. In 1994 I started selling complete kits these work on the new freon and are balanced systems that work great together. I only sell the best new products on the market some are custom made for me. Most people driving a coupe tell me they never turn the unit on high. I have sold several to customers with A-400's including my own. The complete kit is $1040 for 31 with indented firewall and $1065 for 1928 to early 1931. Plus tax in TX. and shipping this is complete with all new componets and brackets that are laser cut and jig welded by me. At the present time I am the only one selling a new quality kit. I was told about some that were going to copy my brackets and sell as their own but they found out their price was much higher than my retail. Now Ken Parker I am still waiting on my check for your order that you said would be in the mail on Monday several years ago at the TX. Tour after you had me explain in detail how everything worked and installed for my kit. Maybe you do not need one now since you went home and copied all of my design that I have spent years time and money developing. I am sure you would love to sell a system for $1100 like your post said will that include the used junk/swapmeet specials that you have used on your car. If anyone cannot tell I love people copying my items and then claim that theirs is better. My website is now working www.kendavismodela.com my e-mail [email protected] or phone evenings 817-540-1513. I teach Highschool and kids started today. Call any evening I have to take my daughter to college sat. When building car the more the insulation the better if you would like detail I be glad to talk to you.

Re: Airconditioning for Model A
 

Ken, Glad to see you're finally on Fordbarn.

Re: Airconditioning for Model A
 

I just clicked on the web-site and it worked for me. Try it again. Don/WI

Re: Airconditioning for Model A
 

Here are a few pictures of Ken Davis' system in my cabriolet. It's really well thought out and easy to install. Please forgive how dirty my car is in the pictures. Ken's kit didn't come with the dirt. I added that myself. However, I added it in cool comfort.

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w...t/IMG_9758.jpg

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w...t/IMG_9760.jpg

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w...t/IMG_9755.jpg

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w...t/IMG_9754.jpg


http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w...t/IMG_9756.jpg

Re: Airconditioning for Model A
 

Elrod...THANKS for the pictures. They're the only ones I've seen of a typical installation of one of Ken's system. It sure would be nice if Ken's website had pictures of the installation...maybe some instructions for potential purchasers to review. (hint...hint...hint ;)) I've never read anything derogaotry about Ken Davis' systems....everything has always been positive. It's surely the one I want to install.

Question...in your last picture, it appears the condensor coil/fan is hanging down considerably beneath the rear-end. Does the condensor coil hang down as far as it looks, Elrod? ...or can the mounts be shortened to lessen the angle? Is there a compelling reason to have it hang that low? I would assume that's to allow more free air to flow through the condensor. Could one acccomplish the same by bending some sheet aluminum scoops/ducts?

I'm asking because I need to evaluate whether or not to restore our '29 Leatherback BEFORE I install one of Ken's systems, or wait to do it as the car is restored. Right now, it's a reasonably good driver, and frankly I'd like to keep it that way for a while. But, at the same time, I don't want to let Jippy Car just sit all summer long as our summertime weather just so brutal...hot and humid...opening the windows and windshield just allow more hot and humid air to circulate and that does NOTHING to keep us cool. I'd be interested in your thoughts...

Thanks in advance... :)

Re: Airconditioning for Model A
 

Here is one more picture. The camera is physically sitting on the ground shooting up at the car. When standing behind the car, you can barely see the unit. and the rear end is much lower than the condenser. The condenser is not hanging below the rear end.

If you're concerned about how it visually looks with it hanging in the back, I've never had anyone come up to me at a car show and say, "What the heck is that new thing there?" You can't really see it when casually standing around, unless you really know that there shouldn't be something there. You have to get down on your knees to really start noticing the fan and condenser.

I would say that you want as much air going through this condenser as possible. Making the condenser more horizontal would not allow the hot freon to cool as efficiently, thus turning less of it into liquid before reaching the expansion valve. This in turn would make your "cold experience" less cold.

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w...g?t=1282676180

Re: Airconditioning for Model A
 

I see now..Elrod...indeed, that picture shows it a lot better than the first group of pictures. It doesn't look like it hangs down too far at all...

One more question...does the electric fan run all the time the unit is on...or does it cycle on and off...?

Jast wanna be sure I have a fair understanding of what to expect.

Thanks in advance for your response...! :)

Re: Airconditioning for Model A
 

I'm thinking that the fan is running the entire time the unit is on, and cuts off when the unit is off. I could be wrong on that though. Ken may have an additional comment.

Re: Airconditioning for Model A
 

Elrod, Thanks for the pictures. They help a lot. I have two questions: could you provide a dimension for the width of the control unit that hangs under the dash and do you think I would have a problem with my emerg brake being in FRONT of the gear shift lever and hitting the control unit? Thanks Bill G

Re: Airconditioning for Model A
 

Does anyone know if the Ken Davis unit also provides heat, as some other aftermarket units do?

I currently have a little aftermarket box heater that uses some of the same space as the underdash unit.

In our area we suffer both winter and summer, but my wife doesn't like to be cold.

Thanks.

Re: Airconditioning for Model A
 

My unit is not a heat unit, but he does have that available.

The control unit is 16 inches wide.

In regards to the Emergency brake handle, the Ken Davis kit comes with some additional parts to help move the side mounted emergency brake handle forward. You have to cut the floor board a little bit for the handle to allow it to pull farther forward. Not sure about other emergency brake set ups.

Re: Airconditioning for Model A
 

Well I will try to answer a few more questions. First my wife goes to College full time and she did the website which she was suppossed to add some more things to it this summer but she got busy. So thankyou Elrod for the pictures. The unit can be heat or cool. I have sold a lot of heat and cool to Alabama and the Carolina's. I had a heat and cool in my slant window and I did not like it. The cool only unit's have the biggest coil on the market for underdash 32 pass. When you go to a heat and cool 6 of the tubes are now heat and are cool. We took the unit from my sedan and put it in my dad's coupe it works good there but not in my sedan. In Texas yesterday it got up to 110 where I was yesterday so we need all the cooling capacity we can get. But like I said my customers east of TX. prefer the heat and cool. The heat and cool is $40.00 more this includes the valves and control cables. Snyder's sell's a real nice upper and lower waterneck for the heater hoses or I have ones that go into the hoses. I have made a change since Elrod installed his unit I supply a relay for the fan that allows the fan to cycle with the clutch which does not happen much when it is 100 outside. The condensor needs to be mounted at a angle the fan pulls air from the front if the fan is to flat the hot air will cause the high pressure switch to turn the compressor off. At the National two years ago we had a coupe on display blowing 42 deg. from the vents with outside temp. of 95. Last thing you do not have to have a modified engine to run the system you cannot tell a power loss at any speed. Let me know if you need to know anything else.

Re: Airconditioning for Model A
 

I'm going to second the "you cannot tell a power loss at any speed" comment. It's really a great unit Ken. When driving at any speed with the unit off, if you switch it on, you don't feel the engine bog down ever.

That's more than I can say for my daily driver Nissan. You feel the compressor kick on in the gas pedal. Not in my Model A.

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On the side mounted emergeny handle the bracket tilts the handle back for clearance. On the front handle you have to shorten the handle (Cut at bottom in weld seam) or change to latter side mount. I have shortened several front handles and they still work good.