why no blowers in daily drivers?
 

I see some women wear their best diamonds when the leave the house but I never see a blown engine unless it's at a show.
It is price, wear, reliability, visibility, are they illegal, fuel economy, too much attention?
Do they have to be full on all the time?
Can they go the distance, will a blown engine make it across the country and back?

Re: why no blowers in daily drivers?
 

Blowers are really more suited to hot rods. HRP

Re: why no blowers in daily drivers?
 

Lots of good questions - I have a S.Co.T blown 59A Flathead in my stock bodied 35 Coupe.

For a higher performing flathead a blower aids in the bigger weakness of our beloved flatheads - breathing in an optimal fuel mixture under higher performance expectations - of course for reliability and performance - you don’t just plop a blower down on the intake side. As with any engine -all the aspects of the engine must be considered - i.e. each action has a potential reaction - so carburation, intake flow, valves, heads, ignition, exhaust and gearing must be considered for all to work well.

Cost is of course fairly steep for price of admission, and wear, economy and reliability are all a part of thoughtful full design, execution, maintenance and driver inputs.

At lower RPM the blower has minimal effect - as you get closer and closer to WOT the power climbs rapidly - so in a sense you can control economy with your right foot - and yes - they can they go the distance, and make it across the country and back many many times when consideration is given for all of the above.

There are many experts on this forum with far more knowledge and experience that I - so am sure will add much to your questions - perhaps oppisite of my thoughts - my comments are just my humble opinion as experienced running one on my little 3 Window Coupe.


http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p...PICT0042-1.jpg

Re: why no blowers in daily drivers?
 

I do think this is possible and one of the tests I'll be preforming id just that. The Eaton blower is available at a very reasonable price they were available on Buick's since 1992 until the mid 2000 on their 3.9L engines. Unfortunately there isn't an intake available for them. These blowers work on a demand principle where the engine run under atmospheric pressures until Manifold vacuum drops below a predetermined value and you get max boost. This allow the driver a stock engine performance until he needs more power. I've built such a setup for testing and will pass along the results. These are also available from Magnason, They use a different blower , but operate on the same principal. Pics to follow.

Re: why no blowers in daily drivers?
 

I've got an A-V8 with a 6-71 GMC blower on it. I drive it on the street with no problems. I put a lot of thought into the set-up and it has turned out well. It has been together for about 20 years, and makes 12-15 lbs of boost max.

Re: why no blowers in daily drivers?
 

I've been thinking of putting a small blower on my '53 engine once it is done. However, I want to know the engine will hold up for a long time because I plan on driving the truck often. Something like a 3-71 or 4-71 I've been thinking about, with a small amount of boost. But if it means I'll have to upgrade a ton of internal parts and beef up the engine considerably I probably won't do it.

Re: why no blowers in daily drivers?
 

i have some blower experience and they can be reliable and long lived if done as a package. having said that ill never forgot what my dad taught me years ago,you can wear em out slow or you can wear em out fast,take your choice. rpms kill,my foot has a mind of its own.

Re: why no blowers in daily drivers?
 

Old Ron. The operating principle you describe is how the supercharger is setup on my engine (photo attached) in a daily driven car. Under normal street operation the engine runs naturally aspirated on the carb's primaries. As engine vacuum decreases the valve bleeding off the supercharger's boost closes at which time the 6#'s of boost is sent to the engine. The trick is maintaining engine RPM to stay on the torque curve without getting into it and making boost. (For some reason my 73 year old brain and legs don't communicate like they used to.) As you know CR, Cam design and Boost all play a role in making a supercharged engine street friendly. Another equally important element in balancing performance and fuel economy is getting the power to the ground. In setting up my car as a driver I used an automatic transmission with O/D and 3.73 gears. In retrospect I think any supercharged engine that produces good low and mid range torque coupled to an O/D trans a better compromise might be 3.54 gears. Just food for thought when you get around to the actual build.

Re: why no blowers in daily drivers?
 

Ya need to leave those shoes with the lead lined soles at home.... :D

Re: why no blowers in daily drivers?
 

I like your set up expavr, you take "Dare to be different" to a new level.
PeterC gives some good tips and I will expand on what he said. I have a 6-71 on an overhead (yes, it's a Chevy) but this discussion needs all the input it can get so I will add my 2 cents.
Any short block for a blower application should have a quality piston; I'd invest in forged pistons and a modern ring package, rebuilt rods done by a competent shop and pay close attention to bottom end clearances and the oiling system. In my case I run 8.7-1 compression, but it is an overhead, I'd keep a flathead in the 6.5 to 7-1 range. I run my blower at 15% underdriven and it is a bit on the loose side, never more than 7 lbs. boost and it has two 600 Holleys on it with direct linkage, not progressive. The total timing is set at 28* and I run a fairly conservative camshaft with .445 lift and 222* duration @ .050. Reliability has never been a problem, I have not driven cross country but have gone to Oklahoma City two times from the Chicago area and done numerous other long distance road trips and never had any problems.
Build a reliable short block, maybe with the L100 cam that many here like, add the blower and start up with a reasonable amount of total timing, sneak up on the best total advance, not too much right off the bat. I would probably go with a 600 carburetor, but even with two Holleys on mine and direct linkage I have no concerns. Mileage on the road has been 17.5 mpg with 3.36 gears and a 31" tall tire. The engine will run like a stocker at idle and in normal driving; only when you give it some serious throttle will it get enough air to build boost and at that point hang on! Read all you can, plan out a good combination, and build for the street- leave the hard core race stuff and gearing out of the picture and you will see that performance, reliability and mileage can be had in one package.

Re: why no blowers in daily drivers?
 

Thanks for the input, yes we need more people to address this kind of project. In my case the engine is stock and the boost will be in the 3-5 lb range the blower has a 2:1 overdrive, the same as the Buick.

Re: why no blowers in daily drivers?
 

These pictures were taken along tim ago at my other shop. I'll up date them when I install it on the present engine.

Re: why no blowers in daily drivers?
 

Ol Ron

What did you use for the crank shaft pulley?
I always enjoy your posts.

Thanks

Re: why no blowers in daily drivers?
 

Hi Everyone, I spotted this car on the field at the EFV8 National Meet in Hiawassee last summer. The day after I took the photos, I found myself having lunch with the owner, a really nice fella from Albuquerque. He has a restoration shop and they did the car and engine. He'd driven from ABQ to Georgia and was driving back. He said she'd do 70mph all day long and I don't doubt it. I don't recall the guy's name, but here's a couple websites for his shops. He had some good stories about the folks/fools who bring him cars to restore.

-VT/Jeff

http://www.worldwideautomotiveinc.com/
http://www.oldcargarageltd.com/

http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/l...d/GEDC0116.jpg
http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/l...d/GEDC0117.jpg

Re: why no blowers in daily drivers?
 

And still 6 volts, I love it!

Re: why no blowers in daily drivers?
 

Used a GM pulley and bored it to fit the ford crank. Have 2:1 and 3:1 OD. Blower Max RPM is 14K. Would like 3-5 lbs boost between 2500 and 3500 RPM. Engine is stock.

Re: why no blowers in daily drivers?
 

blown flattys are cool.

Re: why no blowers in daily drivers?
 

I like blowers, and I love flatheads, so this is what Im currently working on.

Re: why no blowers in daily drivers?
 

Its hard to tell from the photos how the runners are setup on the intake manifold but with the carbs mounted to the back it seems like the front cylinders might run somewhat lean when the blower's boost is vented at cruising throttle settings. Have you noticed that happening?

Re: why no blowers in daily drivers?
 

Do you guy come across the little SC14 Toyota blowers.. Cheap N easy.. You cant rebuild them as such as the bearings are set and glued in.. The blades are basic and flat but if you dont rev them the're fine.
I used one on a 192 Ci inline 6 I had [Holden 186 red motor] with a 465 Holley [modified] Damn it went hard !!
Ive still got one under the bench and Im eyeing it off for the flattie..

Re: why no blowers in daily drivers?
 

Pics SC14 on a Flattie

Re: why no blowers in daily drivers?
 

The Eaton blower off the Buick has the air input in the rear. The AF is directed into a throttle bore where The AF either goes into the engine or the blower. Smething like progtrssive linkage. You only get boost when the vacuum drops to a certain level. Your question about the distrobution of fuel in the intake manifold is a good one. I'm using an old Fenton Intake and the runners are small and of the 180 deg design and should distribute the AF equal, but we won't know till we try it.
The Buick had Port injection so this is not an issue. I'm using a single 2GC.

Re: why no blowers in daily drivers?
 

Ron, did you use a 4bbl. intake to make the adapter for the blower ? The bottom of those Buick blowers have the big hole and a small round hole, why ?

Re: why no blowers in daily drivers?
 

The big hole is the blower output. The small hole is the by-pass system. I started to use a small 4bl but there isn't enough room behind the blower to fit one. Besides a 2GC will pass enough air for a 239 past 4k and I boubr it will ever see that.

Re: why no blowers in daily drivers?
 

Ron
So in theory the blower is not producing any boost at idle and all the af mix go's through the small hole, then when you open it up and drop vac. it builds boost and puts all that through the big hole.
So you could use a blow-thru 4bbl carb on the manifold and mount the blower over top of 1 of the heads and build a basic tube from the bottom of the blower to the top of the carb. with just an air filter mounted to the rear of this blower, or get as fancy as you want and even pipe in a intercooler.
This type of blower on the buick is for air only, no fuel, I was under the impression that a blower just for air has tighter fit between the rotors, and a blower with fuel going through it has a looser set up, as the fuel helps make the seal. Am I totally wrong on my thoughts ???
This is very interesting to me, I have thought about using this set up many times before but never went past thinking in my mind. I really want to know how this works out for you.
I haven't hit the lotto yet so buying a set up from H&H is out of the question for now.

Re: why no blowers in daily drivers?
 

Magnason uses the Eaton blower in a carburetaded system, using a blower similar to this one. You can Google both Magnason and Eaton to get a feel of the blower it's self. Their Kit uses a larger blower, but operating on the same principal.
The Ford Thunderbird also used this system back in the mid 90's and I know of several modified for flatheads.

Re: why no blowers in daily drivers?
 

I have a blower and manifold for my 60hp, but decided not to use it. Needed make an adaptor plate, but was wanting to get the ole gal on the road.
Lee
http://imageshack.us/a/img826/371/huffer4.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img59/8800/huffer3.jpg

Re: why no blowers in daily drivers?
 

Another thought with the blowers. A blower will create quite a bit of additional heat and engine load.
The front main bearing should receive some attention as increased stress is applied with the blower drive.

Re: why no blowers in daily drivers?
 

like what bubba ?
more lube ?
can I run one of your distributors on my blower engine ? or would I need a mag ?

Re: why no blowers in daily drivers?
 

I love the blown 8BA in my 3W.


http://imageshack.us/a/img515/5711/r...rinstall01.jpg

Re: why no blowers in daily drivers?
 

Nice picture, so what's in it? What timing? How are the carbs set up.? What kind of gas mileage does it get?

Re: why no blowers in daily drivers?
 

Sorry Ron I was on the fly when i posted the pic

Pls see the spex below :

3 5/16" + .030", non relieved 8BA block, short fill of Hard Block (mixed with iron shavings
Scat 4 1/8" crank
Scat 7" H Beam rods
Ross forged pistons
Custom Doug King steel caps, ARP SB MoPar mains studs
Studded heads and mains
Ported int and exhaust
1.6 Chevy valves
Custom Tatom blower cam, adjustables, Isky springs/shims, c/moly retainers
Edelbrock 1116 CNC, deep chambered heads
Hayden Mitchell blower intake
Modded pan with crank scraper and windage tray
Elec dist/MSD 6BTM/recurved Mallory dual point dist with and single point triggering the MSD box. No vaccum advance.
GMC 4-71, 2 x Stromberg WW carbs
Exhaust has been changed to Belond type headers with a mandrel bent 2" OD exhaust running through Smithy type glasspacks.

My distributor has around 16 deg of mech timing built into it - all in by 2K rpm. From the outset I had dialled in around 6 deg of initial timing and combined with the mech adv (no vac adv on this puppy) I had a total of around 22 deg of timing. Usually I like to run around 10-12 initial timing on a blown engine to keep em kool on the street and run the balance of timing via mech advance to suit the engine combo, weight of the car etc.

I have fitted an MSD 6BTM ( BTM = Boost Timing Master). As you guys know, controlling spark timing in a blown engine is of the utmost importance.This would enable me to lean on this engine while removing timing with a boost referenced setup that would (or should) protect the thing from lunching itself. From this MSD box, there runs a vac tube that connects to a bung I fitted to the intake plenum to provide a source of vacuum to allow the MSD to work correctly.

The way it works is as follows. The box has a plug in adjuster in that allows you to dial in either 1, 2 or 3 degress of timing reduction per pound of boost. So if you set it at a 1 degree reduction, then it would remove 1 degree of timing per pound of boost. Im my case at the 1 deg setting at 7 psi boost it will remove 7 deg of timing. If I set it at 2 deg, then it will remove a total of 14 deg of timing at full boost and so on.

It works brilliantly and I've yet to pop a head gasket or do any damage. This is with Premium pump gas.

The Stromberg WWs flow around 250 cfm each which is what I wanted and have a mechanical type power valves. They are set up with a direct linkage. I cant remember the actual jetting (id need to pull out my build folder) but from memory jetting was in the 50s with great EGTs and plugs look great. I've also run a boost referenced 600 Holley DP blower carb - works even better and less chance of leanouts up top, but IMO does'nt look as nice. It does fit under the hood though !

Fuel economy wise? Well, I run 3.9s gears (really would like to swap them out for 3.5s) and run a 5 speed trans with around 2400rpm @ 60 mph/100kph. She pretty good on the old benzene unless I stand on it all the time - at low rpm, there is very little boot and when coasting under no throttle vacuum reads around 18-20" Hg.

To be honest I don't really care about fuel economy as she's not a daily driver (easily could be though hehe)

Hoe this helps !

BFD

Re: why no blowers in daily drivers?
 

Tighter clearance and more lube if possible.
Sure we do distributors for blown engine , not a problem...

Re: why no blowers in daily drivers?
 

Thanks Blown Flathead, that's just the kind if information we need. Bet it moves pretty good. Tks again.
Ol' Ron

Re: why no blowers in daily drivers?
 

hey Ron, have any progress on this setup?

Re: why no blowers in daily drivers?
 

Well this project was nipped in the bud by a crack in the #5 exhaust port. This happened befor we put the blower in the engine. So we had to go to plan "B" and install the 280 Flathead with a 3 spd with OD. Other than the pistons (3 5/16 +.020) the engine is a stock Merc. Money is hard to come buy and I don't have another 8BA block or I'd go for it. I do have a 59 engine (248), but that won't bolt to the trans. Been looking for a "Hogs head" but again running out of funds. Have to get the truck on the road and stop putzing with all this stuff. This is very disapointing, had two side draft carter carbs for the blower, which would fit better under then hood.

Re: why no blowers in daily drivers?
 

Saw a T shirt at a hot rod show once "injection is nice but I'd rather be blown" ( sorry had to throw that one in, I'm not really offering anything useful to this thread):)

GB

Re: why no blowers in daily drivers?
 

Aquestion for Blown flathead deauce,
Are you running a backfire relief? If so can you post a pic?I have a couple of 471 blowers already built and two mitchell intakes, what is the length of the blower snout? I will use an L-100B cam in one and I have quite a few ignition choices, Modified GM, Mallory yl,Mallory Unilite ,vertex mag. with 10 deg. advance, modified chry. electronic dist. etc. I am considering an early327 balancer. flatattack main support mainsupport with the plate to main cap setup, the engines will be 3-5/16" x4" with Ross forged pistons,Original n.o.s Zephyr or Isky valve springs. 1.5 Milodon valves.I havent decided on heads , Iam considering either E.A.C Merc.,8-B.A ford,OFFY 425"S or offy 400"s, Fenton coated headers, my main concern is the crank drive, what are the rest of you all using for the crank drive? I need some ideas here. I want to run v-belts if possible.
Thanks,
Fordestes,

Re: why no blowers in daily drivers?
 

The amount of boost will determine the blower drive system. The more the boost the more belts. You have to consider the Compression ratio VS amt of boost. The ignition for a street blown engine is quite complicated. and detonation is the enemy.

Re: why no blowers in daily drivers?
 

Hey Ol Ron, just a thought, I was told you could use water injection to compensate for detonation.
I knew a guy that ran big boost on a bike and he ran water injection..
Fordestes, I sure would like to see a couple pictures of your Mitchell manifold..