New "32 Ford" Parts...Where does it end?
 

Or will it? I just saw this...

"Super Bell Axle Company is proud to introduce to you our newest I-Beam that you have been asking for. A brand new 1932 Heavy Axle built to stock specifications. This original design would be a great piece for a bone stock restoration or any traditional hot rod.Made from 65-45-12 ductile iron, Our newest I-beam has the strength and durability that you have come to expect from Super Bell Axle Company. You only have to buy a quality parts once. Available in 2'' or 2 1/4'' perch boss, measures 50 1/2 from kingpin to kingpin and 36 1/2 perch to perch. Plain & Drilled In stock Chrome will be available in a few weeks. Starting at $309.00"


My first thought was kinda negative...

I am drawn to early Ford restorations and period correct hot rods partly because they can't be built from a catalog. Either you need to start with a complete car or hunt the swapmeets for the correct parts. Now more and more...you can just order many of these parts. 32's for example...frame rails, K-member, body, dash, firewall, grill, front wishbone, not to mention all of the small parts...but now the front axle?

Maybe it's just like all of those other repro 32 parts. There will still be a place for original parts and those who enjoy them...and those Check-Book builders may leave the old junk for the those of us who care about it.

Your thoughts?

Neal

Re: New "32 Ford" Parts...Where does it end?
 

I think it will still be a niche product. 32 folks and traditional rodders. I like that it is available, I still enjoy the hunt for Henrys steel.

Re: New "32 Ford" Parts...Where does it end?
 

Ductile iron?????
I don't think any racing association will allow that.
I sure would not trust my life and all the others on the road to cast iron running gear parts.
And yes I know they have been making hot rod axles like that for a long time and YES some have broken.

Re: New "32 Ford" Parts...Where does it end?
 

Someone must have thought that is was a good (profitable) item to produce. I don't see the need for it, but some will, I'm sure. My experience with after-market, reproduced parts is not too good. Some fit, most don't, and some kind of fit, almost fit, need a bunch of work to fit. To me the original stuff is the best, but I don't have deep pockets
Jim

Re: New "32 Ford" Parts...Where does it end?
 

http://www.dura-bar.com/products/65-45-12c.cfm

Jack E/NJ

Re: New "32 Ford" Parts...Where does it end?
 

Fords axles were forged which allowed them to flex.Ductile iron is stiff and has no flex at all.They just will break if pushed to the limit.Just my thoughts.Also there is no such thing as a heavy axle.Whoever coined that phrase made it up.32 axles were all the same and a different design from 33-36 axles.

Re: New "32 Ford" Parts...Where does it end?
 

Ductile iron, also known as ductile cast iron, nodular cast iron, spheroidal graphite iron, spherulitic graphite cast iron and SG iron, is a type of cast iron invented in 1943 by Keith Millis. While most varieties of cast iron are brittle, ductile iron is much more flexible and elastic, due to its nodular graphite inclusions.
On October 25, 1949, Keith Dwight Millis, Albert Paul Gagnebin and Norman Boden Pilling received US patent 2,485,760 on a Cast Ferrous Alloy for ductile iron production via magnesium treatment. Ductile Iron does have flexibility and can be very strong?

Re: New "32 Ford" Parts...Where does it end?
 

Right on and good info Ross.
Your last sentence says it except that it is nowhere near as strong as a
alloy steel forging...Ductile iron front axles have been known to break as have ductile iron crankshafts such as SCAT brand.
For me for these 2 applications it would be like buying second hand oats.

Re: New "32 Ford" Parts...Where does it end?
 

Right on Deuce Lover!

Re: New "32 Ford" Parts...Where does it end?
 

I always find these "discussions" interesting. But personal views, no matter our tradition of respecting your "right" to express them, are not very informative other than reflecting on the speaker's beliefs. As for whether it's a "good" idea, that's up to the marketplace. There were probably some naysayers when Brookville introduced their Model A or Deuce roadster bodies.........but based on reality, reflected by market response, Brookville wins that "argument". Likewise for ASC or other manufacturer rails, crossmembers, and so on. It will be the same for these axles. If Slover read the market correctly he'll be rewarded and the buyers will be happy. If he misread the market these will fade away. They're not for everyone, but that's not the point. As folks who value our hobby we should be tickled to death by any signs of prolonged life. We should keep in mind that we are a minority (albeit not one that tugs on the heartstrings of special privelege) and would be better served by sticking together as we will certainly be the ever more frequent target of the eco-nazis (remember, they HATE everything we stand for).

As for the ductile iron axles, those who have a kneejerk negative response about inflexibility should probably learn the definition of the word ductile (partly defined above). As for the examples of the few that have fractured, my recollection is they have all been chromed which can have a negative effect on ductility when done incorrectly (hydrogen embrittlement). If there are some that are not chromed and fractured it would be nice to know about them and if there had been any forensic analysis for the actual cause of the breakage.

Re: New "32 Ford" Parts...Where does it end?
 

I like your comment about "check book builders" The fact is, any original 32 part is for a "check book builder" as the price on original parts probably far exceed any repo part (unless you are very lucky in digging out a part no one knows what it is for or is in such bad condition that there is no market for it)

Re: New "32 Ford" Parts...Where does it end?
 

I think it's a good thing because it puts a cap on those outrageous prices an original has fetched in the past. There will always be a market for an original axle, and a very nice original axle will still fetch a very nice price. The great thing now is you wont have to bid against a "check book builder" who needs a '32 axle yesterday, cause his client must have a '32 axle under his car cause all of his rich friends are telling him that's the new cool must have part for your next car.

As for where it ends? It ends when then start reproducing a model 111-40 Grigsby-Grunow Radio for a 1932 Ford.

Re: New "32 Ford" Parts...Where does it end?
 

1. The broken cast axles I've seen have all been involved in heavy impacts (crashes with solid objects).

2. They were painted, not chrome.

3. So someone wants to market these stock shape ones, made the same way they've made thousands of other axles. It's their business, literally. Does it really matter?

4. What's this got to do with racing associations?

Re: New "32 Ford" Parts...Where does it end?
 

When I asked about why they chose to build this axle, they said that it would probably be used most in conjunction with their suicide style front suspension that they have had for a few years. In defense of the ductile cast axle, I have sold hundreds of Super Bell axles over the years and have yet to have one fail. As for reproducing deuce parts it will only end when there is nothing left.

Re: New "32 Ford" Parts...Where does it end?
 

I've got to agree with Uncle Bob here.

Unfortunately I own a less popular vehicle and I always seem to be drawn to them. I'm tickled to death whenver I see a new part marketed for my truck.

Re: New "32 Ford" Parts...Where does it end?
 

Repro '32 parts, even the damn good ones like Brookville bodies, have certainly not slowed down the perpetual rise in '32 parts prices...I think they have simply allowed the construction of more cars, both Ford based and entirely repro ones. Correction...they probably HAVE slowed the upward rush somewhat. Imagine what a roadster body or a frame would cost now if there were no repros! Us lunatics will never be comfortable with repro stuff, but we should be thankful someone is happy with them!
Good '32's were worth more than when they were new by the end of WWII...they moved up to more or less typical new car prices (meaning an ordinary person would have had some trouble paying for both a '32 and his family wagon) and stayed there for a while, now they are in higher territory than say an ordinary new Ford.
Parts have gone up a lot more than car, I think, and there really is a shortage there...most good parts have long since been incorporated into a car, and change hands only when a car is rebuilt from say a resto or hotrod into a streetrod.
When I was a kid in the '60's, '32 parts were like $15-20 per lump like a fender or grill...and that was VERY serious money, usually beyond me. Now any serious chunk of '32 steel is in the thousands...

I posted alloy and heat treat info on Ford EE axles on the HAMB once...they put some serious material in those. The most critical forgings like pitman arms were 100% surface tested. Ductile iron can bend under violence, but I think a lot less than a treated forging...
Chroming is apparently not a big issue on these poarticular sorts of steel, from what I've read, but I suspect dropping is...the heat used is surely beyond the heat treat level.

Re: New "32 Ford" Parts...Where does it end?
 

I believe "ductile" refers to other than cast. Ductile is steel which can be hammered or drawn into wire. I do not believe that definition if of anything like cast iron. It is steel.

Re: New "32 Ford" Parts...Where does it end?
 

Paul, I agree with your thoughts about " check book builders " I try to buy good org. parts.BUT now unless I fine what I need at a swap meet I will buy repro WHY I have recieved JUNK in the mail from parts on ebay ( those guys must have smiled when they got the money order) Harold, central coast Ca.

Re: New "32 Ford" Parts...Where does it end?
 

I don't think your comment about the '32 axle is accurate

Re: New "32 Ford" Parts...Where does it end?
 

I am personally glad to see any good quality reproduction parts being made for these old Fords and God Bless any of the folks out there who are making these parts in America. When I learn of a new part that's being manufactured for one of my cars, it makes me extremely happy and I don't care if it reduces the value of existing stock parts that some folks are hoarding and/or are asking ridicules prices for. Let the good times roll and keep 'em flat! JMO, J.M.

Re: New "32 Ford" Parts...Where does it end?
 

Well...'32-36 axles all carry the "B" prefix and interchange...
All the '32 stuff I have that seems original uses the "heavy" axle. There is no question the the idea that the heavy only came on commercials is entirely wrong.
I think the question may be whether the light axle was actually introduced in production before the end of the '32 model year. The only very late deuce I have came with a dropped (light) axle, and of course dropped axles were usually store-bought exchange deals so that is unlikely to be the original axle from that car.
Ford violated all of its normal parts numbering practices during the 1932 year, seldom noting changes in parts even though we know everything under there changed several times during the year...so, if the change was made during 1932, it explains why both axles were sold as B-3010. Normally, Ford added a suffix when a part was altered, like B-3010-b, but they did not on this. The fact of the B prefix may well prove that the change was during '32 production, too...
What does the new '32 book have to say on this?? I'm at work, and will probably forget to look when I get home...

Re: New "32 Ford" Parts...Where does it end?
 

Ductile iron indeed fits its nomenclature, and has the ability to bend and deform under impact without cracking. I believe that some modern OEM spindles are made of ductile, with a forged pin inserted for the actual spindle pin, so I would concede that it is probably an adequate material for an axle...but I will stick to forged and heat-treated Ford EE steel that I know is virtually unbreakable under really severe bending or impact. And absolutely no thanks on aftermarket cast spindles.
Ford introduced cast-iron cranks in 1934, a revolutionary step that also required special alloy that was able to withstand torsion...I think this was the ancestor of ductile. In the crank, it had some advantages, besides price, though its ultimate strength was less than a forging. It allowed much better counterweighting and was stiffer, a big deal since the '32-6 cranks were so thin. The stiffer cranks apparently made more power at high speeds...the forgings were twisting enough to run things out of time. Anecdotal evidence from 1930's stock car racers is that deuces picked up several MPH in their circa 100MPH racing range when fitted with '34 cranks.

Re: New "32 Ford" Parts...Where does it end?
 

There are also (at least) two variations of the "heavy" axle, but "the book" doesn't make any note of it that I can find. There's the style with the indentations by the kingpin having squared-off top and bottom corners, which seems to be more common, and one where the indentation is rounded with no corners. The latter will obviously be easy to spot as not being reproduction once these axles are available, provided they aren't easily distinguishable from stock.

Re: New "32 Ford" Parts...Where does it end?
 

And there's a Canadian one that seems to appear on '33 trucks with heavy middle and light ends...

Re: New "32 Ford" Parts...Where does it end?
 

I guess when I saw all '32's had the heavy axle, I don't BB's did. The parts looks simular but don't interchange with pass. stuff (I think, but could be dead nuts wrong).

Re: New "32 Ford" Parts...Where does it end?
 

I like it. It is nice to have another option that you can use with either a stock Model A or '32-34 wishbone. And no "superman" emblem to grind off.

Will Kimble

Re: New "32 Ford" Parts...Where does it end?
 

like most on here i like original ford parts and have found them superior in most cases. however i like to see the aftermarket stuff because i may want to get on with a project and buy the aftermarket piece if the original will interchange with it later.

and as stated before it's nice in the sense that it keeps prices in check to some degree. the last few years are an exception to the "keeps prices in check" statement! i went a "traditional parts" route 6-7 years ago when i started on my project because it was the cheeper way to build. now i find my new project going the "aftermarket" route because i can't REALLY afford the original parts. but if it weren't for the aftermarket industry i wouldn't have that option. funny how things change.

Re: New "32 Ford" Parts...Where does it end?
 

I'm not sure that some people on the west coast realize that not everyone lives within driving distance of multiple swap meets or has old car parts for sale in their local classifieds. The closest swapmeet that I know of is 250 miles from me and only occurs once a year. Even then, the selection of viable 30's and 40's car parts is not plentiful there in my opinion. If I had to rely on this swap meet and parts for sale locally, it would take me a hundred years or maybe longer to put together a car. I am usually at the mercy of ebay and internet classifieds and have been taken a few times as a result. Then there are the "local pickup only" problems because the seller will not ship. In many cases, buying a reproduction part from a reputable supplier is the most sure way that I will receive what I paid for if I can even find it. I searched six months just a find a steering box for my 1934 Ford. I finally found one on ebay and had to hope to win the auction. If that makes me a "checkbook" builder then so be it. I hope none of you folks who deem others lesser builders because they don't have access to parts locally are not running reproduction bias ply tires on your cars.

Re: New "32 Ford" Parts...Where does it end?
 

Easy fellas... Let's not turn this into those who have and those who have not argument.

There is some validity to the statement that some areas of the US still have a plethora of old Ford parts like poss. CA (I don't know for sure, I'm just assuming).

Re: New "32 Ford" Parts...Where does it end?
 

I didn't mean to sound harsh. Sorry if it sounds that way. It wasn't really my intention.

Re: New "32 Ford" Parts...Where does it end?
 

Original parts are definitely climbing past the cost of anything you can get from the "checkbook" sources, but the good thing is that the original parts are well scattered across the country and sometimes appear in random places with low prices. The scrap heap at the junkyard, the guy with a garge full of mostly Buick parts, the streetrodder who doesn't want anything old on his old car...
Usually you have to bleed money for '32 stuff, but not always.
And...if you have no good sources near you, consider putting all your car money you spend all year into a tote bag instead of sending it off to the repro places. In October, take your tote bag to Hershey and BLOW IT ALL on glorious GOOD STUFF.
Have the vacation time arranged in advance, and maybe have a good divorce lawyer on retainer, but you'll enjoy your money a LOT more that way.
That also seems to be the way European '32 people live...

Re: New "32 Ford" Parts...Where does it end?
 

10-4 on Hershey. Also good advice about the divorce attorney as well. Or just have a good place to hind your old Ford booty. It helps that I generally roll in from Hershey late at night.

I can sneek in a lot of junk under the cover of darkness.

Bruce:

Your post reminds me of joke that I'll modify to fit this topic:

Why is getting a divorce and buying original '32 parts so expensive?

Because they're worth it... (only kidding about the divo. Easy fellas, I'm just trying to lightening up the mood a bit.)

Re: New "32 Ford" Parts...Where does it end?
 

My favorite all time ad, seen in Hemmings looong ago:

1941 Studebaker Champion, wife says it goes or she goes.
Your choice, $400.00

I've always wondered how that all played out...

I once briefly considered wearing a pedometer at Hershey and computing the number of dollars-per-mile-walked for my trip.
I realized that I was looking for severe trouble and dumped THAT idea.
I now figure that if I am not hungry or incarcerated and the dog has been fed that my level of deuce spending is just fine. Priorities, priorities.

Re: New "32 Ford" Parts...Where does it end?
 

Well said Bruce. That's how I try to play the 32 game...from the bottom end. I started buying junk 32 parts...fixing/repairing and then trading up when possible. I am not much further up the ladder...but I am still having fun.

I see that these reproduction parts do have a place in our hobby. There were many valid points made...like parts being made in the USA and sticking together as a hobby. There was also the point made about building cars to sell. You can make them look right with new parts...and don't have to give up your stash of gennie stuff. That's all right as long as you actually use the gennie stuff someday...

I guess parts like the axles just aren't for me. Everyone has their own limit though...as I will use repro hardware as needed. I still hunt for gennie stuff...but I would bolt an original bumper on with new bumper bolts...which I know will make Bruce's stomach turn. :)

Neal

Re: New "32 Ford" Parts...Where does it end?
 

The downside to being a real '32 nutcase is the absurd amount of time spent gathering the goodies...my original bumper bolts have been gathered over damn near 50 years, mostly one at a time. Two actually came from a '32 bumper I harvested in Pennsylvania from a '36 pickup...I had to be restrained from slashing my wrists with a rusted-out brake fluid can when one of them snapped coming off. I would still regard a cast-stainless resto one about like I would a minor case of leprosy.
And I love streetrodders who want to build an old car with nothing old on it!

Re: New "32 Ford" Parts...Where does it end?
 

Bruce:

Funny you say that for one year I did wear my old German ankle-strapped pedometer that measures walking distances in miles.

By the end of the two days: 16 miles. Some would say that was certainly a great deal of exercise and I would agree.

Except I needed to walk 16 miles in order to work off the multiple servings of Smitty fries, Big Smokies, Pit Beef sandwiches and the high number of adult beverages consumed during any one of my 36 years making the annual pilgramage back to the land of salvation of old axle grease, Ford parts, and good friends.

It's akin to how salmon swim back upstream to their birth place every year in order to breed and spawn. Only differnce is our lower jaws don't become grossly disfigured and developed a pronounced hook.

Re: New "32 Ford" Parts...Where does it end?
 

Don’t look the same as a real one to me.
I wonder how long it will be tell someone wants me to drop one. :rolleyes:

Re: New "32 Ford" Parts...Where does it end?
 

I thought those were pickles? :D

Re: New "32 Ford" Parts...Where does it end?
 

Pete, Ford econoline vans have been using ductile iron years as the central component to their front suspension, all of the watermains in most major cities are ductile iron, ductile is vibration resistant and is many times, stronger than a straight steel cast part. Frank

Re: New "32 Ford" Parts...Where does it end?
 

Neal;
If you can find an original part in a state where you do not have road salt cause you dont have winter, and you have swap meets and a cruise scene for 10 months instead of 6 thats wonderful, you have a lot more availability to parts and parts sources, accept the fact that you are very lucky to have those resources.
Put yourself in the shoes of a guy who lives in the north or northeast, we dont have all this iron laying around and haven't for a long time, we have a real tough time finding parts that are useable and we, many of us are happy that someone would reproduce that part or create a part that can be used as an alternative, and yes we may have to write a check to that guy who reproduced that part but no that does not make us gold chainers or any less intelligent or worthy to carry on our passion than a guy who spends every Saturday and Sunday hunting through piles of parts at a swap meet.
We are in a different environment, if you wish to argue that we are different fine, come on up and build a car in my environment and surroundings, the parts prices will shock you the quality will make cringe and you will go back west with a new appreciation for how lucky you guys are.