Adjustable lifters keep backing off - what do u do?
 

I put a set of adjustable lifters in one of my 1940 Ford engines.
Started the car and it sounded great. Two days later lifter noise has increased and the more I drive it the louder it gets. Is the red Loctite stuff the only answer for this problem or is there something else? Lifter screws are very tight to turn until you screw them way down to their bottom for the adjustments. Johnson lifters

Re: Adjustable lifters keep backing off - what do u do?
 

toss them in the trash and have the valves set the right way, valves stem ground till the right clearance is achived, ive had more trouble over the last 50 yrs with those worthless adjustables, no matter who makes them

Re: Adjustable lifters keep backing off - what do u do?
 

I had one that kept backing off also. What I did was bumped the threads with a punch then readjusted it. That was several thousand miles ago and havent had anymore trouble with it.

Re: Adjustable lifters keep backing off - what do u do?
 

I'm glad you guys have sent me this information. I thought I was having this problem because I had done something wrong during the adjustment of the valves. The further down I turn the adjustments on the lifters the less resistance they have. Common sense would indicate to me there could be a problem later on.

Re: Adjustable lifters keep backing off - what do u do?
 

Put a set of original Ford lifters in. No more worries.
I can help if you want a set.

Re: Adjustable lifters keep backing off - what do u do?
 

Ok so I have Johnson Lifters in my new engine but no noise yet (about 600 to 700 miles on it. Other than noise what should I look for as far as adjustment problems,etc.?

Re: Adjustable lifters keep backing off - what do u do?
 

Well, here goes:
Ford put adjustable lifters in all their rebuilt/remanufactured engines. What in the world were they thinking???
I rebuild quite a few engines. If you wish to pay me per hour to set valves "the old fasion way" then I will gladly do so. However, if the adjustable lifters are correct there will be no problem with them backing off. I test them before they go into the engine and rarely I find one which doesn't tighten to my satisfaction so I DON"T USE IT.
This old arguement has been going on forever and probably won't stop right away. Kind of fun answering anyway.

Re: Adjustable lifters keep backing off - what do u do?
 

I have found that exchanging the screws between lifters will tighten them up. You have to hunt to get good combinations.

Re: Adjustable lifters keep backing off - what do u do?
 

I am in the process of rebuilding my 1953 Ford Flathead for my next project and reading all of the comments should I use the solid lifters and adjust them by taking away from the valve end to have the proper gap to the lifters or is there a company that has the better style lifters to use. I did rebuild a V8 60 a few years ago and this is what I had to do.

Thanks
Frenchy

Re: Adjustable lifters keep backing off - what do u do?
 

I too have read over and over the arguments for or against using adjustable lifters. To have a shop grind the valves for clearance is expensive.

Being someone that likes the feeling of doing everything I can myself and don't care how long it takes, I did the following.

Used set of johnsons resurfaced at $48. Set the gap then took each lifter out and miked the total length of the lifter. Wrote it down and a pad. Took all the screws out and super cleaned the whole piece inside and out to remove the hidden grease and grime in the threaded hole. (kept screw and lifter as a unit)

Put each piece back together setting the length as recorded then using green locktite to keep everything in place.

Saved a little money but have the satisfaction of doing it myself.

Once again, not the only way to do it but the way I have found that works for me.

Fourdy

Re: Adjustable lifters keep backing off - what do u do?
 

Is there a way to take the lifters out without removing the heads and the valves?

Re: Adjustable lifters keep backing off - what do u do?
 

I am with you no problems for me to do it as I am use to build V12 Lincoln engines and all of them have hydraulic lifters so no adjustments are needed. Doing it the right way if it will take time to set them no problem here Thanks for posting your experience on this.

Thanks
Frenchy

Re: Adjustable lifters keep backing off - what do u do?
 

Mark, where did you nget your Johnson lifters? I understand thay haven't made them for years. They were good lifters back in the day. After they stopped making them I went back to butt grinding. The out of the country ones are junk. The only good ones that i know off that you can get today are made in Aostrailyer (spelling) but that are expensive. The only trouble with butt grinding (besides finding someone that can do it) is with reground cam the bass circle is so low that you have to have longer valves or weld the stems up. Walt

Re: Adjustable lifters keep backing off - what do u do?
 

I hate to make this post is it possible to put a drop of locktite in the threads of the adjusters to keep them from backing out would it help any.

Frenchy

Re: Adjustable lifters keep backing off - what do u do?
 

Nope

Re: Adjustable lifters keep backing off - what do u do?
 

Walt

You are right it takes time to adjust the solid lifters I had to do this on the last V8 60 I had done. I had to weld a small bead on the end of the stem to be able to get the proper clearance to set the valves never had a problem after that. Only time consuming.

Thanks
Frenchy

Re: Adjustable lifters keep backing off - what do u do?
 

Frenchy,

If you put locktite on the threads while the lifter is in the engine, the locktite will not penetrate the threads if the threads are oily or greasy. Also, if any of the locktite dribbles off of the lifter to the block, you will find it very difficult to get the lifter out. Please don't ask how I know. LOL

Fourdy

Re: Adjustable lifters keep backing off - what do u do?
 

You guys and your Loctite.
Do you remember how you get parts apart that have been assembled with Loctite?
You warm them up.
Internal engine parts get way above the release temperature of any loctite.
If the parts are not coming loose with Loctite on them, it is NOT because of the Loctite.

Re: Adjustable lifters keep backing off - what do u do?
 

Pete,
I have always been told by shops that engines do not get hot enough to dislodge green lock tite but needs heat at least from a propane torch or hotter. Not arguing, just curious

I have so much to learn.

Fourdy

Re: Adjustable lifters keep backing off - what do u do?
 

Just went to the Locktite site and found this tech info as was kind of going by this info.

"For Disassembly
1. Apply localized heat to the asssembly to approximately 250
°C. Disassemble while hot."

I'm hoping not to let my engine get up to 250C.

Fourdy

Re: Adjustable lifters keep backing off - what do u do?
 

Yup, I was aware of that. In reality, it will release at a much lower temp.
Never having run adjustable lifters but having heard the horror stories ever since they came out back in the dark ages, I'll stay away from them.

Re: Adjustable lifters keep backing off - what do u do?
 

Thanks for the explanation on this.

Frenchy

Re: Adjustable lifters keep backing off - what do u do?
 

I haven't done it yet, but I went to my local drugstore and got some syringes they use to give kids medicine. There is no needle, just a nozzle that can be used to reach down in the valley to get to the threads on the Johnsons.

It is my understanding that the green Loctite is designed to wick down into threads and that is why you use it. Also, to loosen up the green stuff, you add more green stuff.

Re: Adjustable lifters keep backing off - what do u do?
 

You can peen or knurl the threads a little to create interference. These lifters loosen up if they've been adjusted too many times.

Re: Adjustable lifters keep backing off - what do u do?
 

i've read that to loosen threads w/ Loctite, apply more Locktite as a solvent.

Re: Adjustable lifters keep backing off - what do u do?
 

250 degrees C? That's 482 F. Don't think the lifter would reach that kind of temperature. So green locktite should work.

Re: Adjustable lifters keep backing off - what do u do?
 

ive been looking this thread for a couple of days now, and two of the best flathead engine builders on here Walt and Pete say butt grind the valves, if your using a reground cam that needs longer valves use chevy valves, if you have to use adjustables to get the right setting and have to back the adjustables all the way out they wont stay set, easiest way like walt said is weld up the stems and then butt grind, even the best adjustables will loosen up at around 10,000 miles and then you have to go back in and reset, thats a lot of fun, do it right the first time and you wont have to do it again for the life of the engine, and another thing you guys say is its to expensive to buttt grind, the engine is there having work done on it, valve job, i have a retired machinest that does my work, he can butt grind all the valves in less than two hours, at $60 an hour thats $120 or less, half of what a set of adjustables will cost, and i never have to worry about them again, as for adjustables being put in rebuilt engines by ford, ford didnt rebuild them, he had them rebuilt by an outside company, ive always thought the adjustables were used by incompentent engine builders or the owner just wanted bragging rights at the local car shows

Re: Adjustable lifters keep backing off - what do u do?
 

I have used adj. lifters on my last 3 rebuilds. After running the engine on the test stand 3 or 4 hours at variable rpms and at 2000 rpm's for 20 minutes or so several times it is easy to pull the intake and recheck. Mostly just a few lifters have to be adjusted a max of a couple of thousands. I was a toolmaker in my younger days and would love to butt grind if I had a grinder. So, if I can find one I will buy it. I am guessing that if the adj. lifters move, they would screw in, not out, resulting in too much clearance and valve noise. If this happens after 5 or 10 thousand miles it still is not a big job to go in and re-adjust them. Not everyone has access to a shop that has the experience to butt grind so the adj lifter is the only option for the backyard builder.
Anyone out there have a grinder for sale??
John

Re: Adjustable lifters keep backing off - what do u do?
 

This is how I believe the interference is created. The lifters are tapped with a tap. The threads are the same all the way to the bottom. The adjusting screw is threaded with the same set up from end to end. The interference come from the screw being necked down and then compressed to locally fail the screw causing the threads to to be slightly out of phase. I have not had any luck trying to compress loose screws to tighten them up. I have had good results by just exchanging screws in lifters.

Re: Adjustable lifters keep backing off - what do u do?
 

Most of the old valve grinding machines have a set up on them to grind the stems. Of course that started to change after the flathead era was pretty well over.

Motorcycles always used a collet type split nut with a tapered seat to lock the adjusters but you were expected to adjust the clearance every 20K miles or so on them. Those threads get tension every time the valve opens in normal operation so it's just a matter of time before the threads loosen up. Heavy valve springs will speed the process up. A collet lock nut would have been better but there is just not enough room for it.

Re: Adjustable lifters keep backing off - what do u do?
 

"Not everyone has access to a shop that has the experience to butt grind so the adj lifter is the only option for the backyard builder."

Yes, but many have a small lathe and that is all it takes to cut the stems.
A carbide bit makes easy work of it. Most lathes have a provision on the carriage for
a micrometer type positive stop or to mount a dial indicator.
Chev valves will usually have plenty of extra material on the stem for adjustment with mild cams. If more is needed, it can be built up either with a torch or tig welding.

Re: Adjustable lifters keep backing off - what do u do?
 

Using '52-'53 Ford/Merc rotator valve set may help. The rotator allow the valve stem to spin with the tappet reducing the twisting torque on the adjustment screws. I have this set up on a Zephyr engine and so far it seems to be effective. I also used loctite after adjustment.

Re: Adjustable lifters keep backing off - what do u do?
 

While rotators work ok on a bone stock engine, they are an invitation to disaster with a performance cam.

Re: Adjustable lifters keep backing off - what do u do?
 

It sounds like either you have defective lifters or the guide locks are not in the correct place.

Re: Adjustable lifters keep backing off - what do u do?
 

Vern Tardel has a method that he uses to keep adjustble lifters from coming loose that he shared with me when I visited his Ranch in Santa Rosa, CA in 2010. I'm sure if you contact him by FAX or email (he does not do phones) he will give you that same information. I have 11k on my 21 studder using good quality adjustables and they are staying set well with no valve noise whatsoever. Although I have valve grinding equipment that could do the solid setting procedure, I prefer to use good quality American made adjustable lifters in my flathead engines. Just my personal preference.

Re: Adjustable lifters keep backing off - what do u do?
 

Actually the screws are machined off pitch to achieve a slight interferance.
Try checking a new one with a thread pitch gauge. You won't find a gauge that fits exactly.

Re: Adjustable lifters keep backing off - what do u do?
 

Has anyone tried the Flathead Jack adjustable lifters? They have a much larger thread diameter, nearly the diameter of the lifter body.

Re: Adjustable lifters keep backing off - what do u do?
 

The problem is that there are two types of adjustable lifters, one type for reground cams and one for stock. Difference is the thickness on the screw head, much thicker for reground cams. Will try to put up a picture of both. This discussion has occurred many times and the answer is simple.

Re: Adjustable lifters keep backing off - what do u do?
 

Re: Adjustable lifters keep backing off - what do u do?
 

I find the pros and cons of using adjustable lifters quite interesting. Im rebuilding a 53 EAB that is practically stock with 390 holly, modified dizzy and headers with dual exhaust. The car is a heavy convertible with 3 speed. If the stock cam checks out OK should i use it or use an aftermarket? As long as it's apart now would be the time.:confused: