Ronning 8BA style distributor on 59A
 

Over the past few years, many guys would like to run 8BA engines in their early cars but the late water pumps prevent many clearance problems. Using the early pumps interfere with the distributor. I've described this method of solving the problem, but now a few pictures are worth a thousand words. The space is 1/8" thick. This conversion was done on Ken Schmits engine albost 20 years ago. For those using an *bA engine you'll have to plug a few holes and use either Skips or a pump with sealed bearings. Enjoy

Re: Ronning 8BA style distributor on 59A
 

Great pictures and info Ron, good to see you posting pictures, appreciated.

Vergil

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I gorgot to mention that you must use a GM or MSD distributor. Which most should realize by now, the original leaves allot to be desired.

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thanks ron

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Hey Ron, does the Chevy dist have a long enough shaft to lift it up enough to clear the belt? Walt

Re: Ronning 8BA style distributor on 59A
 

Cheeese Walt, where ya been? we've been doin this for years or Bubba wouldn't have a job.

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I am working on a set up like this now. I have one of Bubba's Chevy dizzies on the 8BA in my '36 pickup now and I want to run the same set up on a 59A. I want them to be interchangeable so that they can be used as backup on either. I do that by having a collar on the distributor shaft that sets down on the timing gear cover. This picture was taken before I came up with the collar idea. That way, I can use the regular timing lock down on an 8BA or a collar lock when using 59A heads.

To get clearance under the distributor, I am using an idler pulley to route the belt. My alternator will be hard mounted in the full down position and there is going to be a tensioner pulley pushing in on the belt opposite from the one in the picture. This is an old picture where I was brainstorming the tensioner pulley. I've got it designed now, but not built. I'll try to post a picture later.

My only concern about this is that I am using a regular belt in a serpentine mode. Anybody think that this might prematurely wear out a belt?

Re: Ronning 8BA style distributor on 59A
 

I like that setup!! My gut tells me you will get premature failure of the belt -- not sudden, but shorter lifespan due to the belt's outer surface compressing while running around the idler. I like the tensioner. How is it bolted on the block side?

Lonnie

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36 Tbird,
What about the fan? Are you using a stock one?

Ol Ron,
I was wondering about using the early pumps, my problem seems to be the generator. I'm running the same setup as Tbird, but with a 49-53 12V generator, I have a right side(dist side) offset bracket(Offenhauser) , but it looks like I'll get belt to dist interference.
Do I need a drivers side offset bracket? I forgot to say, I'm running an Edelbrock triple, so the Gen mount will have to be different.

Thanks,

Ralph

Re: Ronning 8BA style distributor on 59A
 

It's nice to see different methods for solving a problem. Makes this hobby a real learning process.

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Re: Ronning 8BA style distributor on 59A
 

Binx, I may only get 30,000 miles out of a fan versus 50K.;)

Ralph, initially I am going to run an electric fan. However, I have been looking at it and I think that I may be able to go with a '48 fan set up with some mods to the back of the fan bracket. I don't see any reason why I could not run the fan on the alternator, stock '36 style, either.

My tensioner bracket will mount only off of the alternator slingshot bracket. I'll try to get a picture today of it versus trying to explain it all. This is my prototype and I have already figured out some enhancements I can make. I may go broke buying alternator brackets as I engineer this.

Re: Ronning 8BA style distributor on 59A
 

I did this to make room for a PS pump and an A/C bracket.

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I'd like to do this using a modified Chevy Mallory distributor. Think that would work??

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Holy Cow, Ron! How did you make that timing gear cover?

59, read up on some of Bubba's experiences with the Mallory's. Maybe those are flathead Mallory's he reported on, but I don't think he got very good numbers with them.

It is one crappy day here is S. Texas, so I went out to take pics because I doubt I will get much else done. Here is one of my prototype tensioner bracket. There will actually be two of these sandwiching a 1/4" bar so that it holds the pulley and pivots on the upper bolt. Obviously, the adjustment slit is not cut between the bottom holes. I made this up just to check my dimensions.

I am really proud of this bracket because of the design process I went through. First I made a cardboard template. I took those to my computer and designed the thing in AutoCad. I just completed a class in adult education to learn the basics. I was able to print a 1 to 1 rendition of the bracket which I taped to my metal piece and cut it all out. When you dimension the design it gives you the center points of circles so I could punch those holes and drill them directly.

I am hoping that I can find someone with a CNC plasma cutter and use my design to make me a few identical brackets that look pro.

In the pictures, you can see the shoulder I machined on the distributor shaft to sit on the installation hole so that it keeps the same dimension for either a 59A or 8BA. I used Bubba's dimensions for the Chevy shafts that he posted a couple of years back on the HAMB. I had to turn the shafts down to .875" and put on a 1.5" sleeve in order to get the shoulder. I plan on sending my housings to Bubba for him to do his magic. I hope he doesn't gag on my machine work. Given that I know enough to be dangerous on the lathe and that my lathe is an 1899 vintage Star, my tolerance acumen is questionable.

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36tbird, interesting firewall. What vehicle is that?

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Russ, this is my never ending '36 fiberglass roadster project. I'm building it as a late '40's/early '50's hot rod with the theme that this was "older brother's car left to the younger brother when he went off to war flying B-24's". (Not sure what B-24's have to do with it.)

Car will have a DuVal windshield and a folding top. Flathead is mated to a top loader 4 speed with Jeep shifter and 8" rear. '39 steering box has a pristine '36 banjo. Grille will be stock but I have front fenders with '37 headlights. Folkstone grey with maroon scallops. Thanks for asking.

Re: Ronning 8BA style distributor on 59A
 

All that stuff looks great Lou. If you have a chance, post a pic of the front of the roadster. These guys wil really like it
Regards
Jim

Re: Ronning 8BA style distributor on 59A
 

I don't know how Ol'Ron did it, and my thought on it will simplify it a lot, but it looks to me like he might have sawn off part of the original dist. mount, moved it around where he wanted it, did some Ol'Ron machine tricks (hole, fit, etc)or maybe a whole new mount tube, and had it welded back on.
But, that is just my thought on it.
However he did it, it is great work, and shows that he will not let something stop him when it comes to doing anything.

Re: Ronning 8BA style distributor on 59A
 

36tbird;
You might get longer life out of a riding mower belt. They are available from NAPA and other parts houses. They have the tension cords in the middle of the belt and are designed to be back bent. I have been using that type belt on both of my flatheads since the seem to last longer than th3e standard 5/8" engine belt. They also put a bit less tension on the alternator bearings, which are not designed for high overhung loads.

Re: Ronning 8BA style distributor on 59A
 

Nice ideas, folks.

36 T-Bird, Looking at your setup - I can't help thinking that if the alternator were laid over towards the left side of the engine, (right as you look at the picture,) and made adjustable, you could dispense with the idlers and with careful belt length selection have a really neat setup. You would have to lay it over about 45 degrees. The direction of adjustment would want to be parallel with the run of the belt that is passing just under the head of the distributor.

Just sort of thinking outloud here..

Mart.

Re: Ronning 8BA style distributor on 59A
 

The vertical distributor was made from a cast iron cover. First thing I had to do was make a fixture to hold the cover in the mill. The bolt holes around the cover are symmetrical so rotating it 45 degrees allows you to get the quill in the center line of the distributor . Then using a boring bar I bored a new hole in the proper location. I then screwed a tube of the approximate size to the cover.. Now all I had to do was finish boring it to the right size for a distributor. Then the cover was beed blasted and a thin coating of tiger fir was used to make it pretty and peevent leaks. Still have it. As far as using any other distributor in any of these applicaations,no problem as long as they can give the right advance curve under ALL driving condition's

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Chris, thanks for the tip about the lawnmower belts. I will check that out.

Jim, it has been so long since I had the front fenders on for mock up, I cannot find the pictures in my computer.

Mart, that was my original thought, but I am not a fan (pun intended) of the asymmetrical load that winds up on the water pumps when you use the offset generator or alternator mount. Also, stationary mounting the alternator or keeping it as low as possible came about because I originally intended to run a Super Dual 2x2. I put 3" risers on it that make it look kinda like a Thickstun and was able to just clear the front bowl of the 97. That manifold would probably be the best performer but now I shifted gears (again!) to go with an Eddie Meyer unit that was missing the top piece and I made a replacement for it. Here's a pic of it.

Re: Ronning 8BA style distributor on 59A
 

Fair enuff, just an idea.

With regards to water pump loading, though, the loading isn't equal. due to the load on the generator, the driver's side pump is on the tight side of the belt and the other pump is on the loose side, so the loading is unequal.

If you have to offset the generator, offsetting to the driver's side is the best side to go to, because the pump on that side gets less "wrap" of the belt, but that is compensated by the better tension on that side. The passenger side is the loose side, but benefits from better "wrap".

Oh yes, I'm full of useless snippets of info.

Mart.

Re: Ronning 8BA style distributor on 59A
 

Guys good thread.

The old school Mallory YL unit is the smallest out there and they are fairly cheap cores ( everyone wants a YL), can be machined for the flathead , give a good advance curve when set up and run great.

http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m...R/100_4711.jpg

Thats a YL in the center. ( red or blue cap) The one on the left is the YL Marine unit using a crab cap for low clearance in a marine app like a boat with engine cover . Also looks pretty cool in a flathead...

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Mart, I had to read that four times to get it. I'm beginning to believe you have one of those natural engineering minds.

Lonnie

Re: Ronning 8BA style distributor on 59A
 

GEEEZZZ took me a while to wake up. I've been reading and looking at pics in this post thinking it was titled "Running an 8BA style distributor on 59A". Been seeing some neat stuff, and then it dawned on me that it says "Ronninig an 8BA style distributor on 59A"

Ronning, as in this is how Ron does it.

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Or an 8BA with 59A water pumps and crank pulley. For that mater you can put a 40 crank pulley on it as well. Just makes the swaps easier.

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Yea Ron its an easy thing to do and I like the dist hold downs that I do so that I can use the stock chev hold down see......

http://www.flatheadv8.org/hei.htm

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Every engine needs it's own advance curve and the chevy dist is the easiest to adjust . Working with Richard, we've changed the timing curves dozens of times to find what works and what doesn't. We also used a wide band /F meter to determine the amt of fuel we needed for both Power and economy. This takes time and detacation. The Vacuum advance is key to both and again you can buy adjustable ones to suit your application.

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Regarding the belt issue: I have a belt on the AC of my '50 Suburban that's slightly "back bent" to allow extra wrap on the AC pulley. Wears a little faster, but not bad. I've seen this done factory on some '70s Fords and they were successful.

Don't try this with a Dayco Top Cog, won't hold up. Also, riding mower belts will fail early, they're for 5hp or less.

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I think Ol' Ron besides being great at teaching an old dog (Me) new tricks, I think he's a mind reader. I had an advance question. Last post was #29 by Carl. I posted my question, came up #32, and Ron answered it in post #30, so I deleted my post question

Hey, now I'm post 32 again.

Re: Ronning 8BA style distributor on 59A
 

Hi Ron,
so if i get right , the only thing you do put a 1/8 spacer between the
generator and intake ???
Is it really that simple?
Michael

Re: Ronning 8BA style distributor on 59A
 

I'm afraid so. Your and my biggest problem is the choice of generator brackets and intakes. Set the generator height so the belt misses the bottom of the distributor. Then shim the generator out to miss the body.. You learn by your mistakes.

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here is a shim detail for your machine shop. Charlie NY made this for me for another reason.....hope the pic works... of course you need to adjust for whatever space you need.

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Re: Ronning 8BA style distributor on 59A
I'm afraid so. Your and my biggest problem is the choice of generator brackets and intakes. Set the generator height so the belt misses the bottom of the distributor. Then shim the generator out to miss the body.. You learn by your mistakes.

Hi Ron
Another thought, lenghten distributor housing and shaft to clear belt.
Bruce

Works good
Lasts long time

Re: Ronning 8BA style distributor on 59A
 

I must be missing something. If the generator is shimmed out, won't that cause misalignment with the water pump and crank pulleys? Or are the pulleys adjusted also?

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On mine, see previous pics, the belt is clearing the dizzy shaft by about 1/16" without a shim. My eyeball says that the alternator pulley is towards the rear a tiny amount. So, using a shim like Ron does will move it forward for more clearance with the shaft and move the alternator a tiny amount forward to match the tiny amount it is aft now. In other words, we are not working with the tolerances of nuclear reactor machinery here.

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I like 36Tbirtd's explanation. Once you commit your self to modifying your car you enter the domino affect area, which defy s perfection. Yes the belt willl be miss aligned, and yoe it may ware out faster than if it was in perfect alignment. So you might want to carry a spare belt. I just offered a simple solution that everybody can use or change to suit their application. Using the GM distributor is a major plus. Just think tou can run a 8BA engine in a 40 Ford and nobody will know, except for the Distributor location. They might even think you put the side mount distributor on your 40 engine.

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I agree the belt misalignment as described is not a big deal. (And if more spacing is needed, the w/p and crank pulley could be moved forward slightly as well.) I'll look into this solution for my 32. I just hadn't realized that the Chevy distributor could be set high enough to have the belt run below the body. That was new for me. Thanks for a very informative thread. John