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'41 Ford COE questions I recently bought a 41 Ford cabover. It's a real solid truck and it runs like a top. I've never owned a vehicle this old and with the flathead engine and 6 volt electrical system(actually runs on 12v at this time). I have a few questions regarding both the powertrain and the electrical system.
First off, the truck has just 10600 miles on it but when the previous owner got it the engine was locked up. He got it loosened up with diesel and it runs great now. It doesn't smoke at startup but after 5 or 10 minutes the exaust gets hot and the oil in the exhaust system starts burning. The truck hasn't been run very much at all for the past years. I'm wondering if this is residual or do I need to replace the rings? I would have thought that if the rings were the culprit it would smoke immediatly. Any thoughts, suggestions? The truck has really old bias/ply tires. It does vibrate a little up to say 15 but then after that it really developes a shimmy. The U joints seem tight as does the carrier bearing. Is the rear bearing in the 4 speed transmission a problem on these trucks? Finally the electrical system had a meltdown two owners ago. It currently has a 12 volt battery wired through an ignition switch and solenoid to the starter and coil. All the original wiring is gone. Should I go to a 12 volt system or back to original? Who would be the best source for a wiring harness for the truck? Any and all input is appreciated. Thanks for your ear and hope to have a reliable runner soon. Chris http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o230/cwh13/1285.jpg |
Re: '41 Ford COE questions You have a really nice looking truck. I think if you took it out and really drove it a bit the engine oil would sort itself out, so what you really need is to get the tires/shimmy straightened out and drive it. With that few miles I can;t believe it would be tie rods etc. Its probably out of balance tires.
If you put 6v wiring back in the truck it can handle 12v just fine 6V wire is heavier than 12V . 6v vs 12V is sorta a ford, dogde, chevy kind of argument. There isn;t really a right answer Everybody has their preference. 6 volt is more critical of connections etc. If things are properly grounded etc 6v works fine. 12 volt is nice if you want to add accessories or get a jump on the side of the road. |
Re: '41 Ford COE questions I agree, with more driving the engine may fix itself.
Beautiful truck! Know where there is another one? |
Re: '41 Ford COE questions Beautiful truck! Big wheels need good balance. If the rubber isn't weather or age cracked get them balanced. That will eliminate one cause of vibration/shimmy. I agree with the others. Run it out. The engine will most likely clear itself out with some use.
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Re: '41 Ford COE questions Thanks for the compliments. It's really a 15 to 20 year dream come true. I've been looking for the right truck for at least that long.
On another note, drove it a couple of times today. The smoke seems to be clearing up a bit. The tires are definetly biasply. They shook like crazy at all speeds. I still havn't had it over 25 probably. The trans seems to be the vibration that the previous owner was talking about. It gets noisy and vibrates over 20. Not all the time but probably 75% of it. I have a full gasket set and rings for the pistons. I should probably pull the motor and transmission and clean them both up and go through the trans. I'll probably wait until snow starts flying. I gotta get my garage cleaned up so I can shoehorn it in this winter. 41Ford1, The tires are really weather cracked. I don't think any tire shop in thier right mind would touch them unless the tires were coming off and into the dumpster. It would be nice to have some new tires and get the wheels powder coated. They got to come off to get it in the garage anyway. |
Re: '41 Ford COE questions I have seen this truck in person. The engine was stuck and I am sure the rings will need to be replaced eventually, but give it a little more time to see if the rings will free up, run some MM in the oil and in the gas. I know that it had some stuck valves that Al got working. I helped a local man rewire his 38 cabover and we could not find a harness for it, we just made one for it, he choose to modify it it anyway with 12 volts and more lights, turn signals, electric fuel pump, but still runs an original flathead. The 38 runs about 40 mph top end and the trans is noisy but does not vibrate. PM me for more info or questions.
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Re: '41 Ford COE questions Nice looking truck.
I totally rewired my 47 COE. Didn't find a wiring harness for it. So I bought a 47 pickup wiring harness and then adapted that. Most of the wiring under the dash was OK, but I had to make up wires and cables for a lot of things. I'm not sure if getting the pickup harness was worth it. I kept my system 6 volts and it works well. Because I made up much of my own wiring, I was able to use heavy gauge wire just to make sure. Let me know if you would like more details. I just went to my local tire dealer and bought retread tires: 7.50x20 in front and four traction 8.25x20 for the rear. What happened to the fuel filler? I don't see it in the photo. Interesting that the grille is held in place with different latches than my truck has. I wonder when they changed the latches. Tom |
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The previous owner pulled the factory seats and put temp seats in the truck. He had to pull the factory fuel tank for the temp seats. I'll have the re-covered seats tomorrow and the factory fuel tank will be going back in shortly. The hood latches are getting tossed this winter. The factory ones are in a box in the garage. The only corrosion that I've found is in the drivers windshield frame and the cowl piece below the grill. I'm sure he used those rubber hood latches because the factory ones wouldn't grab solid steel. We'll see. |
Re: '41 Ford COE questions A little update.
Got the truck licensed and road ready. Changed the engine oil and added MM to the crankcase as well as the fuel. Almost no smoke at all anymore. I've only put 20 miles on it but the MM seems to have been the trick. Drained and replaced the transmission fluid as well. There was some metal in the gear oil. Trans still gets real noisy when under throttle. Under deceleration there is no noise. Almost sounds like a chattering throwout bearing. Engine and trans to come out soon. I want to keep driving it for a few more weeks before the snow flies (and it's coming soon). Any ideas of where to buy parts for these transmissions? Chris |
Re: '41 Ford COE questions congradulations on driving your truck, glad to hear things are getting better. Joblot in NY has parts for this truck, also Chucks Trucks in Conn?, and several others I will remember later, Does sound like the trans is coming down with gear-itis, are the flakes steel or brass? There are several website with truck info on them. Vanpelts Sales has books on the transmission rebuild. Good luck Alan
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Re: '41 Ford COE questions The old non-synchro 4 speeds aren't popular. So once people hear that you have one, you might find yourself swamped with offers of transmissions for little or no money. I've got 3 spares and have turned down the offer of more.
Ask around about local transmission shops with a real mechanic that knows old stuff. I'm glad I found someone as he fixed a problem that I might have otherwise missed through my ignorance of these transmissions. If I hadn't found this guy I might have got the book from Van Pelts and tackled it myself. Tom |
Re: '41 Ford COE questions Do a compression test on the engine.
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Re: '41 Ford COE questions Joblot automotive is a good source for truck parts, many nos
For years I drove a 46 to fleamarkets, it had the 2 speed rear, after the 49 merc engine it had no problem with 65 --and keeping the wipers working When we got the 46 it had the original tires, but they were to the cords, the guy at the tire place looked at them---saw "S2" on the sidewall---nylon cords, and said he would give full credit on the recaps for those old original tires. Put a couple of tons on it and go for a drive, perhaps you can get the tires hot and they will round out. I have always wanted a COE dumptruck, yours looks very good, if it was mine I would look for a 2 speed rear |
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On another note, tires are becoming a challenge to locate. I've found a pair of 7.50x20's but need 4 more. I'd like to buy a matching set of 6. I'll probably have to order them. Are bias ply tires the only tires that'll mount on the old split rims? None of the tire shops here in AK suggest anything but bias ply on those old wheels. |
Re: '41 Ford COE questions Coker in Chatanooga Tn has original mould Firestone tires for the truck-a local Firestone dealer can get them for you from them. Bias ply are the only ones that will be safe on your rims. By the way I have found three more cabovers nearby. One is a 52/53, one is 46 and one that is really nice is a 48. I told my friend with the 38 that we should buy the 48 if we can. I don't know where I would put it!!
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Re: '41 Ford COE questions I meant to comment about the compression test- It will tell you the condition of the rings, I would also put a vacuum gauge on it to tell more about the valves and their condition. If you have never done such test let us know, I am sure someone will tell you the procedure. Alan [email protected]
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Re: '41 Ford COE questions Nice truck Chris , I like the bits of wood under the rear wheels ,You are making sure that baby s not gunna run back home .
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Re: '41 Ford COE questions My "34" BB has a 12V battery mounted on the right hand side of the firewall, wired to the starter and an old ford solenoid. All positive ground, but nothing else. The rest of the truck is standard 6v. The 12v runs fine and kicks the truck over when I push the button on the bottomm of the solenoid. I charge the 12v twice a year. Have run this for 10 years. Same starter. No problems. Good Luck
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Re: '41 Ford COE questions Thanks for the nice comments and advice.
Sounds like a compression test is in order before I drive it a bunch. I do have a set of rings for the truck. Probably be a good idea to replace them when I have the engine out. Thanks for the heads up on the tires. I'll look into those firestones soon. Chris |
Re: '41 Ford COE questions Chris,
Great truck you have there. I'm back on Ford barn after my recent move to Hawaii. I've got a 47 COE as well and I've had it about 6 years now. Unfortunately, I could not ship it to Hawaii and it awaits my return in long term slumber...I won't tell you where so you don't 'promote' any parts off of it...just kidding. Anyways, rest assured all of what you're going through is pretty much what I've gone through on mine and this wasn't the only old, big truck I've owned...it's par for the course but solving the problems is highly rewarding and my COE has brought me great pleasure over the short time I've owned it. Here's a couple of pieces of useful info (I think): 1) Tires: I've got 6 old, cracked, worn bias-ply tires. These trucks don't drive fast. If you can get the vibration out, I wouldn't bother replacing a tire unless there is tread separation or it won't hold air. You're not likely to get this truck going fast enough to lose control and go off the road. Having said that, I can only get my truck up to about 30 before my vibration gets real bad. I traced it to one of the rear wheels that is either bent or poorly balanced. I overlook the inconvenience and don't drive it any faster. Secondly, you won't be able to find radial tires for these rims. In fact, all truck rims with an even wheel diameter (i.e. 18", 19", 20", etc) are bias ply and usually designed for tube-type, multi-piece rims. Radial tires designed for tubeless applications are all half-sizes (i.e. 19.5", 20.5", 22.5"). This is done to prevent your tire shop from "trying to fit" a tubeless tire on a tube-type rim. Lastly, you talk about a vibration at 15 mph and up. One last thing to consider with bias ply tires... If the vehicle sits for a while (as little as a week) or you drive it in colder temps, then the bias ply tires will develop a 'set'. Essentially, they have a flat spot. Once the tire warms up, the flat spot disappears and the ride smooths out...somewhat. It won't be smooth as glass but better. Also, your rear tires appear to be NDMT...that is, Non-Directional Military Tread...great for on/off road use but not designed solely for highway use. Military trucks of the same era topped out about 45 mph and ride quality was not among the acceptance criteria of the tires. That may solve some of your vibration issue. Several of the others have mentioned places to get the tires if they do need replacing. Try Coker, Lucas or Universal tire companies. All advertise in Hemmings Motor News. 2) Trans: First of all, if you want a quiet trans, you won't find it in the 4-speed. Unlike the commercial and car trans from Ford, all the gears are straight-cut which results in an impressive whine (especially in the lower gears). Also, the trans is non-synchromesh in all gears requiring you to double-clutch on the way up and both double clutch with a engine speed change on the way down. Can be tricky (took me a month to learn) but once you get the feel, it's like riding a bike... Will a Ford 3-speed work? Maybe...the engine is no more powerful than the car or pickup but others on this forum might know more. The real challenge with converting to a 3-speed is that the 4-speed is of the more-modern open driveshaft design. Ford's 3-speeds were closed propeller tube designs on the car and commercial vehicles (pickup, panel, etc). I don't know when Ford switched to open driveshaft for the car/pickup...maybe around the 8BA era...(48 and younger). 3) Wiring: I think Rhode Island Wiring makes a harness for the COE...if you want to go totally stock. My truck had been totally rewired for 12V by the previous owner. Mine too caught on fire (badly installed aftermarket ignition switch). Fortunately the fire stopped burning insulation once the short melted through the 10-gauge battery feed wire. But that also killed power to everything while I was driving. I can't imagine what it looked like from the outside. Smoke was billowing out of the cab window while I was driving it and it probably looked like an audition for a Laurel and Hardy sequence. Long story short, I rewired the entire truck, threw out all the aftermarket hot rod crap that didn't work right or wasn't installed right, kept the 12V system but went back to the original ignition switch/push button start. Works like a charm. I've got all the schematics I drew up if you need any assistance wiring/rewiring yours. Anyways, I'm by no means an expert but I enjoy the tinkering and problem solving and I'm always available to ask a question. If you need my email, just PM me as it's easier to get a hold of me that way. COE Dan |
Re: '41 Ford COE questions That looks like a really nice COE.
I hope to have one myself someday. |
Re: '41 Ford COE questions Thanks Dan for the explanation on the bias tires. The rears on my COE are the old non directional military tires. They have a real bad flat spot and any amout of driving doesn't seem to "round them out". I'll just have to get some new bias from firestone and get them mounted up.
The transmission in my Ford is no longer operable as of last night. I'm not sure if it's the clutch or transmission but I'll find out in a couple of weeks (I'm oil field trash and work 2 weeks on 2 weeks off and won't be home for a bit). Trans just went inop on acceleration and I was lucky enough to be headed down a big hill. Good news is that my garage is all cleaned up and ready for the truck. I'll give an update when I get the engine and trans pulled. Chris |
Re: '41 Ford COE questions Chris,
Best of luck when you pull that trans. Take note that Joblot in Long Island, NY has quite a selection of NOS parts for the 4-speed trans. Mac's has a bit too to include some bearings. Chances are you didn't ruin any gears and I believe the bearings should be available...the same parts were used for 30-40 years. Also, if you have a clutch issue, the 4-spd uses the 11-inch clutch and pressure plate combo (not the smaller 9- or 10-inch for the 3-spds). Lastly, if you plan to do the work yourself and need some info, there is a short (78 pages) "Repair Manual, Transmissions, Clutches, Overdrives and Power Take-offs" for Fords from 1932-1947. It's a pretty good synopsis on what you need to do and shows diagrams on how everything fits together (order is important). They occasionally pop up on ebay but Macs sells reprints for about what a well-thumbed original goes for. Might be worth the $8. Hope all goes well... Dan |
Re: '41 Ford COE questions sorry you lost clutch/trans last night. If you need some gears I have a 4sp out back and will strip out and send anything you might need for postage.
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Re: '41 Ford COE questions Thanks for the advice and offer. I'll take it one day at a time and see how things progress. I just bought that transmission book. It'll be a nice reference during the rebuild.
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Re: '41 Ford COE questions It's good to see more people preserving more of the old trucks, they also are an important part of American automotive history.
Fordestes |
Re: '41 Ford COE questions Hi Chris, nice 41 coe. I just bought a 41 coe myself. Body only for a custom hauler project. Im looking for an emblem for the side of the cowl vent. Also a hood and grill.
Good luck with your truck, it's a keeper !! Randy |
Re: '41 Ford COE questions Very impressive old truck. I wouldn't mind haveing that one myself. lol
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Re: '41 Ford COE questions I have a wheel wrench with handle for that truck should you need or want one John.
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Re: '41 Ford COE questions Been working a little on the old COE. I shoehorned it into my little garage on 1/4 plywood rolling on the front drums. Length wasn't an issue but I only had a quarter inch on the roof.
http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o...nthegarage.jpg Started disassembly on the truck this past week or two and finally pulled the engine today. http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o.../Meandthe8.jpg I seperated the trans from the engine and found the source(s) of my problems and noise. First thing I found was the damper springs from the clutch disk were on vacation and laying around in the bottom of the bellhousing. The clutch disk itself was in great shape. It must have been replaced at some point as it has a remanufactured tag on the clutch plate. http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o...utchdamage.jpg The throwout bearing has a little excessive play as well. Inside the trans I found some chewed up gears and excessive bearing play. Kind of goes right along with the metal I found in the drain plug. http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o...peeddamage.jpg Well thats it for a week or so. Sorry about the cell phone pics. I'm headed to work in the morning for a couple of weeks and didn't feel like digging out the wifes camera. Input and advice is always welcome. Chris |
Re: '41 Ford COE questions if you found metal shavings in the trans, you will need, at least, to replace the bearings in the trans. Looks like a new clutch pressure plate, throw out bearing and possibly a clutch disc, make sure this one is not warped. Gears in these old trans are tough and since they are non-synchro get chewed on a bit and will continue to be of service unless the gears have teeth gone and are not chewed up too bad
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Re: '41 Ford COE questions That gearbox picture doesn't reflect the damage well. The (2nd maybe) gear is ground down across the face about a third of the way. The trans needs bearings for sure and seals. Most of the 9/16 head bolts that I removed were not much more than finger tight. That being said I believe that's where I was losing much of the gear lube.
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Re: '41 Ford COE questions before I forget Is the young man in the picture one of your helpers? If so put a wrench in his hand and let him get greasy as my two boys did.. I will look into my trans and send you some pictures of the gears, 1/3 of the way across bad, it definitly needs replaceing!
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Re: '41 Ford COE questions Got my wheels powdercoated and some new bias ply's mounted up. Working on painting up the rear drums prior to bolting the wheels back up. Should have it all done by the weekend.
http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o...atedwheels.jpg The motor is all resealed and painted up ready to go back in. Still haven't gone through the transmission yet. http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o...flathead-1.jpg On another note. Anybody know where to obtain another of these little bottom cushion centering posts? http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o...nteringpin.jpg Thanks, Chris |
Re: '41 Ford COE questions chris is that the piece that is tacked welded to the seat frame? I am going to look but I think I have one that is similar and will e-mail you a picture. Good progress, tires will make a big difference, engine looks good, trans will be a piece of cake! Alan
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Re: '41 Ford COE questions Yep, That's the piece. It's been fun. Trans is next. Still pushing to have in on the road by the end of February.
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Re: '41 Ford COE questions OK Chris, How about an update? Still making progress I hope. Post a picture when you can of the finished project. Alan
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Re: '41 Ford COE questions The engine and trans are going back in this evening. Here's a pic of both on the stand...
http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o...forinstall.jpg I'll post some pics when it's back in and together. Goal is stll the last week of Feb for a running driving truck. |
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