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Don't get anal about bolts and torque! I just read a post about snapping the head off a pan bolt while torquing it to 20 foot pounds. And, I've read several posts about breaking manifolds while using a torque wrench.
First of all 20 ft. lbs. is too much for a pan bolt, and secondly common sense does a much better job than a torque wrench. Let your neighbor borrow your torque wrench, then never ask for it back again! If you are using a cork or rubber gasket, just tighten the bolts until you just start to see the gasket squeeze out. If it's a cork gasket, it will take a set in a few days (whether or not the engine is run) and you should resnug the bolts. Just remember to snug it using common sense, NOT a torque wrench. If it's a paper gasket, just tighten it until you feel it's right, then STOP! You can recheck for looseness during regular maintenance, but it will probably be OK. Speaking of REGULAR MAINTENANCE, that deserves a new thread. |
Re: Don't get anal about bolts and torque! I read once in my shop manual that 7 INCH-POUNDS [not foot-pounds] was about right for the cork pan gaskets on my red/red w/wht. top 1963 Dodge Dart GT convertible, 225 slant six, push button automatic on the dash gear selector I use to drive around in. The day I sold it, it would still burn rubber!
I like the idea of letting her sit and soak a bit before running. http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/h...r/dart_med.jpg When cars were art, and not aerodynamic eggs. skip. |
Re: Don't get anal about bolts and torque! Tom,
How would you handle screwing down head bolts ? Marc |
Re: Don't get anal about bolts and torque! Torque wrench as per specs,different situation with head bolts.
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Re: Don't get anal about bolts and torque! I agree with Tom, there are times for torque wrenches and there are times to leave them in the tool box.. That said, there are fellas that never seem to develop that critical ' calibrated elbow or wrist' and some that just don't know the proper use of the torque wrench.. Torques wrenches , like anything else mechanical, can be subject to failure and then the 'elbow' has to know when to tell you that enough is enough..
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Re: Don't get anal about bolts and torque! I agree entirely. The cylinder head is the only thing that I ever torque unless I'm doing some type of experimenting.
For those with a little less experience I'll repeat what I posted years ago. If you don't have a set of standard "combination wrenches", go down to Sears and buy a set. Even if you rarely use them, GET THEM! Now look at the length of each size wrench. They ARE NOT all different lengths just to fit nicely in your tool box! They are sized to limit your leverage so you don't over tighten the applicable fastener. These wrenches will show you the maximum distance from a given size nut or bolt you should be holding a standard ratchet until you develop some experience or feel. Even when I was a kid it drove me crazy to see someone too cheap to own a socket set smaller than 1/2" drive. The smallest typical socket in these sets is a 1/2" which is the same as out pan and side cover bolts. To see someone pull out a big 8" long, bulky ratchet to tighten these tiny bolts seemed so absurd. It's a recipe for disaster for anyone lacking experience. I go the opposite route finding it easiest to use the SMALLEST ratchet available for a given bolt size unless there is a reason to do otherwise. |
Re: Don't get anal about bolts and torque! :cool:Tom, your right about not using the torque wrench and applying common sense when tightening small bolts, i use a 1/4" drive rachet and i grab it at the rachet part, not the handle, then i tighten the bolts, its all most imposible to break one of them using this method when tightening pan bolts, if you do break one you really had to work at it
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Re: Don't get anal about bolts and torque! i had already posted this on the other thread before i read this one. i totally agree with you tom , people get anal about torquing things
""the only thing i use a torque wrench on is the head nuts. the rest i go by feel, or a click in the wrist or 2 burbs of the gun."" |
Re: Don't get anal about bolts and torque! Generally, I use the torque wrench on the mains rods and the head bolts. Even on the rods and mains, I don't get too anal about the torque if I have to tighten or loosen a nut some to get a cotter in.
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Re: Don't get anal about bolts and torque! Geez Guys, Why didn't you tell me to throw away my torque wrench when I asked for help with breaking my water inlet (x2!)?!?!? Huh? Huh?
This thread is why I LOVE ford barn. I'm always learning new important info. Thanks to all of you, Job |
Re: Don't get anal about bolts and torque! turning wrenches for many many years at a motorcycle shop if you read the Manuel there is a toque for everything including the spark plugs, my theory on this is this is there way of saying hey tighten it up dummy, since they cant say this they give torque values, then you look like a idiot with the wrench tom your right on
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Re: Don't get anal about bolts and torque! ONE FLAT BEFORE YOU RING IT OFF is the correct torque!~
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Re: Don't get anal about bolts and torque! An old Detroit engine mechanic I knew said a lot of guys go by the,tighten it until it breaks and back it off half a turn rule.There were some fuel crossover tubes in the old engines,if you tightened them to Detroit's specs in a week or so you would fill your crankcase with fuel.He just knew how much to tighten them with a 1/4 inch ratchet.New ones were OK to tighten by spec,but once used you had to use your experience.
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Re: Don't get anal about bolts and torque! okay...agree...this cotter key thing is going to give me fits....
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Re: Don't get anal about bolts and torque! I feel the use of a torque wrench is warranted when you NEED to match the tightness of all the nuts, such as head, main bearings, and rods.
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Re: Don't get anal about bolts and torque! I agree with Marco, I use 3/8" drive most of the time, rarely 1/2" drive except when removing head bolts, Mains, rods. etc.
You can feel when it is tight enough. |
Re: Don't get anal about bolts and torque! I searched my old Motors manual ('35-'50) and the only torque specs I found under Ford was for the head, but "only when a torque wrench was available". So who's right, who's wrong ? I think Marco hit on it.
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It appears the first patent for a torque wrench was 2,159,354, granted in 1939. It's interesting that the patent application mentions "the tightening of cylinder head nuts on internal combustion engines or assembling precision devices such as air craft engines and the like" I'm really curious when torque standards were finally adopted by the auto industry. |
Re: Don't get anal about bolts and torque! Reminds me of the exchange on "proper torqueage" in My Cousin Vinnie. Marisa Tomei's performance was inspired. If you haven't seen it in a while, go through the $5 bin at WalMart and get it! Great motorhead movie!!
As for proper torque application being related to the leverage of graduated wrench lengths ... I am in need of a new set, with each wrench about 3 inches longer than the set I bought back in '75! |
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Marco, Your 100% right on the publishing date. |
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Re: Don't get anal about bolts and torque! Most people miss the first step in tightening anything..forethought.. at 20 lbs. the pan gasket IS split at the bolt hole!
A lot of you guys have done this ALL your life, some 1 or 2 times , this maybe there first experience with taking anything apart! I have 4 torque wrenches and they specifics uses. At one time or another I have torqued EVERY part on an engine, depending on it's use or design This mite be a good time to write a list of what type of tools to use were(the RETIRED guys are the writers), for the folks that are lost or need a hand? Think about this, I saw somebody tighten a rear axle nut with a 12" Crescent! |
Re: Don't get anal about bolts and torque! i have a third printing and it shows head rod and main bearing torque values
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Re: Don't get anal about bolts and torque! A nutdriver works for me .
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Re: Don't get anal about bolts and torque! Found this chart in a forgotten tool "shed" on my grandpa's farm.
i find it interesting and kinda on this topic. yes i know its kinda rough but was used and used well http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r...s/100_1941.jpg http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r...s/100_1942.jpg http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r...s/100_1943.jpg back of the chart http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r...s/100_1944.jpg http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r...s/100_1946.jpg newest vehicle on there is 1941. |
Re: Don't get anal about bolts and torque! several years ago (97) I had a motor rebuilt I delivered motor his shop looked as we went back in time,his tools were tool kit tools,I saw no torque wrenches,air tools or nothing modern,I picked motor up maybe 3 months looked like a brand new motor and never had 1 problem,I can't remember his name but lived in Madison,MO I believe
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