Frame numbers stamped
 

What are your thoughts on this frame number? Is it A2002498 or
A2992498? I don’t have a title and this number doesn’t match the number stamped on the engine.

Re: Frame numbers stamped
 

A2002498 is July 1929 and A2992498 is March 1930.

Re: Frame numbers stamped
 

Can you imagine being the guy on the assembly line who whacked the frame number and stars one at a time into the frame with a hammer all day long for 6 1/2 days a week??? No wonder Ford had such a high work force turnover! I wonder if the guys building engines and chasses switched around mind-numbing assignments like this so that nobody would go postal??? I could have lasted about two hours doing this stamping over and over again before I'd go nuts!
M.

Re: Frame numbers stamped
 

a2992498

Re: Frame numbers stamped
 

Now get out Pluck's frame study and see which number fits within the changes. I'm thinking the stop light switch hole for the 30 would be the easiest to spot.

Re: Frame numbers stamped
 

The engine has been replaced.

Re: Frame numbers stamped
 

I also vote *A2992498*

What year is the rest of the car?

Chris W.

Re: Frame numbers stamped
 

I going with jA2992498 also second 9 looks like a double stamp

Re: Frame numbers stamped
 

You buy yourself the brass plate stamped with 299 whatever and pop rivet it to your firewall. Attachment has to be "permanent" with no screws which will allow removal.

Then, using the bill of sale, OR WHATEVER, you apply for a title and registration.

The pretty uniformed officer comes out and "verifies" your number. She has no idea of where or how the number is applied. Only that your car HAS a number and that it can be found. You don't mention the frame number now hidden by the body and you tell her the number on the engine is an "engine number which is not related anymore to the car number."

The fact that you have "a number" and permanently attached is enough for the state to track it in the event of theft - which is more than they actually care about anyway.

(They simply want the registration fee.)

Sorry. A little "jaded" of state tracked ANYTHING.


Joe K

Re: Frame numbers stamped
 

Why not just use the engine number as your verification. Thats what i do. When someone comes out to verify the car, I show them the engine stamp and they say oh, ok.

Dont ever mention to a verifier that the frame has a stamp.

I am not saying Joe is incorrect, just saying its easier doing it this way.

Re: Frame numbers stamped
 

If this was me, I’d decide on the number, add a body tag, and restamp the engine to that number. Easy to restamp the engine since you obviously have it out of the car. Cover all your bases.

I’d also vote for A2992…. I’ve not seen a factory restamp like that. It’s almost like the dude grabbed the wrong stamp, realized it after whacking a couple of incorrect numbers, and stamped over the “0”s with “9”s. Interesting, maybe this is one of those infamous Monday cars.

Re: Frame numbers stamped
 

Before making any number changes I would check what your state title and registration laws are. Almost every state is different.
You might have to get a bonded title.
Do you have a bill of sale. You will need some way to prove the car is yours.



John

Re: Frame numbers stamped
 

I maintain records for the Victoria Association about the surviving 190-A's. Your 190-A is a Leather-Back which is the earlier body style of the Victoria. On record are surviving Victorias with 3-digit Murray body numbers dating back to production in the first quarter of 1930. So apparently there was a stockpile of Victorias available for their initial sales release. So the frame number on your car should be an indicator of when it was assembled at a Ford plant, but no earlier than 1930. Also, the Victoria's frame is unique because it has brackets for that body style.

Re: Frame numbers stamped
 

I don't think it's 00. I think maybe whoever struck it had a 9 or a 6 upside down and over struck them. So it could be 99 or 66 or 69 or 96.

Re: Frame numbers stamped
 

But is the frame in the picture from a Victoria? He doesn't say. If it is those brackets will also dictate that the number is later not the 1929 one.

Re: Frame numbers stamped
 

Hello , previous owner on my car did the aftermarket “Ford data plate , also restamped the engine also . Makes it easier for checking “vin” number actually the engine number. Pennsylvania usually only checks them when bringing a car in from out of state . Also had the title changed from convertible to roadster when applying for plates .March 1930 sounds early number for a Victoria, if that is what the car is .

Re: Frame numbers stamped
 

[Q for 6 1/2 days a week???

They worked 6 1/2 days each week?? That's a 52 hour work-week

Re: Frame numbers stamped
 

You’re assuming 8 hours a day. I don’t think they were necessarily limited to a standard work hours per day in the ‘20’s and ‘30’s. Jobs were scarce and the pay was low so they might have had to work as many hours as they could.

David Serrano

Re: Frame numbers stamped
 

"They worked 6 1/2 days each week?? That's a 52 hour work-week"

Oops! You're right. It would have been 5 1/2 days at the most, not 6 1/2. Math was never my strong suit in school. I did better writing long, boring essays - as anyone on this discussion board can readily verify. :)
M.

Re: Frame numbers stamped
 

My solution. Officer and DMV never questioned it

Re: Frame numbers stamped
 

That might get in the way of receipt of your payment.

There was a time, and perhaps still is for VID and its tracking. High end cars are frequently stolen and then "parted out" hence the tendency to mark all parts of resale value with the VID.

The State and police do little in stemming this trend. There might have been a time when automobiles were less common, more expensive, and when title and tracking MIGHT have been a benefit.

Having a VID and sales record might be an assurance that a dealer is selling "the real goods" rather than some "assembled from parts creation." I expect that era ended about 1925.

But best you can say is "it is what it is." Our modern existence.

Cow Hampshire is currently in the throes of eliminating automobile safety and emissions inspection - another tracking. The judges have been both ways on this since Christmas.

Meanwhile, a neighbor up the street drives a 1998 Toyota Sienna that is so degraded it can't be picked up on a lift - but it has Colorado Plates on it. We're talking like four years. Technically it is a "visitor."

Joe K

Re: Frame numbers stamped
 

Bob, this frame is from a Sport Coupe. I bought it last summer. I still have the Victoria..

Re: Frame numbers stamped
 

The two number possibilities indicate either 1929 or 1930 it would seem (as others have stated above). As others have also suggested above, frame differences between these dates (such as the front crossmember and other period changes) should provide the answer you seek. Not much more anyone else can provide that isn't pretty much a guess.

Re: Frame numbers stamped
 

What year is the Sport Coupe Body? I bet it is a '30 and this is the original frame????

Chris W.

Re: Frame numbers stamped
 

The body is a 1928 or 29. I was told the frame was a 1930.

Re: Frame numbers stamped
 

52 hour week = 8.6 hours a day for 6 days. Henry was running 3 shifts of 8 hours a day. The extra .6 could have been meal and a break. They probably had workers that stepped in to keep the line running while others were eating. His $5 a day could have included the meal & break - it wasn't an hourly wage. Or you were required to arrive/depart 20 minutes early/late so you had time to get from the time clock to your work station so Henry got his full 8 hours.

Re: Frame numbers stamped
 

Hello , The fair wage and hour laws came into effect in 1938 ,this made 40 hours a week standard with time and a half pay over 40 hours for most occupations .12 hour days weren’t too uncommon in years past.

Re: Frame numbers stamped
 

Lots of variations to consider. 28/29 lots of new cars and plenty of money. late 29 thing changed drastically.


In 1930, Ford Motor Company maintained high wages despite the onset of the Great Depression, with many workers earning around $7.60 a day, though this was often offset by reduced hours, as average annual earnings were around $959.20.
That's only 126 hours in a year.
In reality Henry's 1914 $5 a day had a base pay of $2.34 and a profit sharing bonus of up to $2.66. During the depression maybe Henry had a lot of workers putting in low hours so they could keep food on the table.

Re: Frame numbers stamped
 

Most people know that the frame was stamped as well if they don't they don't know the Model A's as all Model A's had the frame stamped as well the stamp is the same as the original engine number that's one way you can tell if the engine is original to the car. Reggiedog

Re: Frame numbers stamped
 

And to me it looks like the frame was restamped with a different stamp as the 99 is smaller than the rest of the other numbers as to me it looks like the 00 numbers are correct in the number. Reggiedog

Re: Frame numbers stamped
 

All Model A frames were not stamped,although the U.S. ones were supposed to be.Canadian frames were not stamped.I've had two unstamped A frames.One is sitting outside my cellar door right now,it is the cleanest unrestored frame I have owned.To grind deep enough to get rid of numbers you would leave behind divots from the grinder.That frame is dead flat and perfect from front to rear.When I did portable blasting I went out and did a 30 frame that showed no numbers.After blasting we found the numbers just ahead of the rear crossmember.

Re: Frame numbers stamped
 

So why is this coming up? Do you live in a title state? Did you get the car from a title state, or bill of sale state?