Brake adjustments, stick or no stick
 

When you adjust the brakes, do you use the wooden stick with 3 notches, or do you make the adjustments without the stick?

Re: Brake adjustments, stick or no stick
 

I never used the stick.

Instead I take the car out to somewhere with a gravel driveway.

You can tell INSTANTLY which wheel grabs first - the trick being to get them all to grab/skid at the same time.

Joe K

Re: Brake adjustments, stick or no stick
 

The only time you use the stick is when you are setting up the length of the brake rods. You do that one time only after making repairs or replacing the rods or levers. After that, brake adjustments are done only at the wheels.

Re: Brake adjustments, stick or no stick
 

I move the adjusters in until the wheel just starts to drag them move the adjuster out one of two notches. After doing that on all 4 wheels I do a road test, much like Joe K, but on pavement.

It helps to first move the adjusters in until the wheels lock so that all slack is taken up in the system, then move the adjusters out until the wheels just drag and then one or two clicks looser. I will try one click first, but if some residual drag then one more click. The real test is the road test. There are always some black skid marks out in front of my house after doing an adjustment.

Re: Brake adjustments, stick or no stick
 

I adjust my brakes similar to above posts, but I have the rears grab first.

Re: Brake adjustments, stick or no stick
 

Never used a stick.

Re: Brake adjustments, stick or no stick
 

Another tool I use to confirm brake adjustments is my Harbor Freight infrared temperature gun. I check the temperature values of each brake drum. Handy to see if the drums are approximately the same temp after coming down a long hill in my neighborhood. Fronts won’t be the same as rears, but side to side they should ideally be kinda close. Found one of my rears was “cold”, and my adjustment was way off. They’re handy little tools.

Re: Brake adjustments, stick or no stick
 

I've always said that whoever wrote and published that article in the 60's about that stick should be paddled with it.If all your parts are good,and you adjust the brakes to the service bulletins the car will stop.Adjusting brakes to arbitrary notches on a stick makes no allowances for .020 or.050 of bends,twists,and wear in 20 or 30 different spots.Adjusting the brakes according to the bulletins,or as per the directions from a half dozen people here will get you correctly set brakes.Fine tune as needed.

Re: Brake adjustments, stick or no stick
 

I have never used a stick. The only place I have seen anyone use a stick is on YouTube. Since I like to bias my brakes a little towards the front, the stick method would not work for me.I do use a infrared temperature gun to check as Bruce mentioned.

What Keith sez is True.

Re: Brake adjustments, stick or no stick
 

I use the procedure in Les Andrew’s book and use the stick. I am relative new to the Model A and have had club members drive my car after I did some brake work and they felt I did well. The stick can work.

Re: Brake adjustments, stick or no stick
 

I agree!

Re: Brake adjustments, stick or no stick
 

I'm certainly no expert on this topic and not looking to take sides either way, but I did find that the factory service bulletin instructs the technician as he begins to move the brake pedal "approximately" 1" and then "approximately" 1/2" increments two other times while performing brake adjustments. It seems to me that having some sort of gauge to measure those increments would more consistently accurate, although the service bulletin doesn't specifically mention using any kind of gauge. I suppose close enough by eye was good enough. Just thought it was interesting.

I don't have the experience that others do in this department. I have an adjusting gauge (board) and have used it with some success and it seems to help me get the adjustments in range, but I still fine-tune them by doing the skid method. I'm still honing my skills, but so far, so good. :)

Re: Brake adjustments, stick or no stick
 

2X post # 12.

'The Stick' is a simple tool to assist a novice in equalizing mechanical brakes. If adjusting four wheel brakes is new to you, you need it until you gain more experience.

Re: Brake adjustments, stick or no stick
 

The brakes in my Model A's are biased to activate the front service brakes first. I have never used the graduated stick. Further more, I do not use the brake rods to adjust the brakes.

Re: Brake adjustments, stick or no stick
 

I adjust my brakes guided by a GreyRock brake manual and they work well.

Re: Brake adjustments, stick or no stick
 

Interesting. Does the GR brake manual specifically mention adjustments to Model A brakes?

Re: Brake adjustments, stick or no stick
 

The older one I have does. It is a large format paperback with an orange cover.

Re: Brake adjustments, stick or no stick
 

I really don't understand the hate for board. Here is a Ford manual mentioning a pedal depressor(pretty much the board) in adjusting the brakes.

Re: Brake adjustments, stick or no stick
 

2Speed,
Very interesting...did you find this in a Ford service publication somewhere? The procedure describing the use of a depressor tool makes sense especially when you consider the importance of getting the brakes adjusted correctly for safety's sake. Ford stressed the importance of, and reliance on their "authorized" service, so it seems reasonable that Ford would have provided a tool of some sort to make the adjustment process consistent, accurate and repeatable instead of a seat-of-the-pants approach going by eye and feel only. I have never seen one of the pedal depressor tools mentioned, but maybe one exists somewhere - I'm a tool fanatic, so it would be fascinating to see one.

Re: Brake adjustments, stick or no stick
 

I use the stick. Works every time

Re: Brake adjustments, stick or no stick
 

You'll find many various 'brake pedal depressors' advertised in 'Ford Service & Field' magazines.

15 million Model T's barely had two wheel brakes so with the 'New Ford' Ford dealer service men had to learn to equalize 4 wheel brakes.

The critics of the 'stick' are usually those who made their living twiddling wrenches, including adjusting brakes. That guy can adjust by feel while the newbie is fumbling. It's not the 'stick' but the safety factor for the hobbyist.

All roads lead to Jerusalem.

Re: Brake adjustments, stick or no stick
 

Lastly using the 'stick' and the Service Bulletins description, you'll have Model A brakes adjusted for driving on dirt roads. Once you master that adjustment, you'll stumble onto the 1932 Service Bulletins adjustments description which is more appropriate for our 'modern' roads. These revised adjustments are for all four wheels to be the same, hence then no use for the 'stick'.

Re: Brake adjustments, stick or no stick
 

A Google search seems to have found the mystery brake pedal jack tool referred to in the above service bulletin posted by 2Speed. From the description in the text, this tool seems to fit perfectly. I have never heard or seen one of these, but maybe some of our more seasoned Model A buffs here on the Barn are familiar with it. Being possessed by vintage special tools as I am, I'll probably buy one if I ever do.

https://www.worthpoint.com/worthoped...sor-3891026437

Re: Brake adjustments, stick or no stick
 

Just use the stick.

Re: Brake adjustments, stick or no stick
 

Yes, MC, that is the better of the era brake depressors.

Re: Brake adjustments, stick or no stick
 

The board seems to work fine for me.

Re: Brake adjustments, stick or no stick
 

It was from a service manual found on the cmaff.com website under they're library heading. Some really great stuff there.


Is there an online copy of the 1932 service bulletins, it would be interesting to see what the no stick procedure is. I can't see how you can get a good adjustment without depressing the pedal to see what wheel grabs first.

Re: Brake adjustments, stick or no stick
 

I have no hate for the board. I believe in basic physics that the brakes need to have a front bias because of the weight shift dynamics of the Model "A" when braking. That is, the mass of the car shifts forward while braking it. Thus the front wheels will have the higher normal force that increases the frictional force with the roadway, and the normal force on the rear wheels will decrease.

Re: Brake adjustments, stick or no stick
 

If you do not use the stick, how do you know your brakes are biased to the front?

Re: Brake adjustments, stick or no stick
 

If you use the 'stick' and adjust your brakes according to the Model A Service Bulletins, your brake bias is for the rear brakes to drag first. This was believed to be ideal for driving on loose, dirt roads.

With the 1932 Service Bulletins and 'solid' roads, it was recommended all four brakes be adjusted the same. Your choice & comfort level.

Re: Brake adjustments, stick or no stick
 

Depressing the pedal(with some sort of stick) but just have all the wheels brake at the same rate then?


Without depressing the pedal, I can't see how you can even out the brakes, or bias front or back.


In a hydraulic system just about every wheel gets the same pressure more or less, or at least it will even out better than on the mechanical system, especially with wear, or misadjusted linkages. Without depressing the pedal, and testing the wheels how can you tell?

Re: Brake adjustments, stick or no stick
 

2SP,

Ever since the 1960's all hydraulic brake systems with disc brakes included a proportion valve to even out & regulate brake pedal pressure between the fronts & rear. Discs being superior, in a panic the vehicle could switch ends.
(the theory)

This being a Model A site, lets stay with Model A brakes. Assuming (?) the brake system has been fully restored, the only adjustment is made with the adjusting wedges on each backing plate. Model As had the rear brakes lock while the fronts could spin. (dirt roads) Today most Model A owners prefer the security of having all four brakes working equally ie. adjusted the same.

'Capisci ?'

Re: Brake adjustments, stick or no stick
 

That is not correct. Especially considering the differences in brake rods from original to reproduction, changes in frame symmetry over time, differences in system components, previous repairs, etc. It is very important (I say MANDATORY) to adjust the brake rods as was explained in the video.

Re: Brake adjustments, stick or no stick
 

From decades of experience , the stick can be helpful on the later brake system with adjustable rods.It gets one to a good estimate of lockup especially on the front wheels with drums cold. Road testing for pull to one side or the other and feeling the drums for even heat or a temp. gun can help as a final check.

Re: Brake adjustments, stick or no stick
 

The capeche part I don't get, and as PS has said, how can you tell if the brakes are biased/evenly adjusted without depressing the pedal, either with a foot or a board. That's what I'm asking, how do the individuals adjust their brakes without a board(or foot)?


For those that don't use a board, I can't see how you just set rods, set actuating arms, set adjusters and think that by magic it will all just fall into place and every wheel will have equal braking action.


Again I will ask, how do these individual adjust their brakes without using the board?

Re: Brake adjustments, stick or no stick
 

Simple, 'other's' who have made their living twiddling wrenches for a living develop the skill set of 'feel' after decades of working around brakes.

The rest of us mere morals have to struggle by using a 'stick' or biblical blessings to achieve safe brakes.

'Compendia'

Re: Brake adjustments, stick or no stick
 

Ok, so there is no procedure to do it without the stick, even though there are some on here that say everyone should throw the stick out.


Should be pretty simple for those who have all this knowledge by feel to just outline what they do, that's all I'm asking.

Re: Brake adjustments, stick or no stick
 

2SP, I think your getting it. Skipping the 'stick', follow the steps outlined in the Service Bulletins. OR

You can duplicate 'feel' by turning in the adjusters until all four brakes are locked. Now back off the adjusters the same number of 'clicks' to find a uniform drag with the wheels turning. At this point I'd suggest road testing the car to even the brake pull, ie stopping in a straight line.

Don't over think this, it's just a Model A.

Re: Brake adjustments, stick or no stick
 

2 Speed, see post #4.

Re: Brake adjustments, stick or no stick
 

Read post #4, and I'm not over thinking it. Instead of the board, you are using your foot, to depress the brake, just like the stick depresses the brake pedal. Instead of jacking the car up and turning the wheels by hand to feel the braking power, you are looking at skid marks.


I'm not seeing the difference between using the board and using your foot. I'm not seeing the difference between looking at skid marks or feeling brake drag. You can call it some mystical powers by people who are magical and can adjust brakes blindfolded by smell, but it's the same. The pedal has to be depressed and braking force has to be measured. If you're alone and don't feel like getting into trouble on the road, you use the board.