three on the tree shifting [more scale model research]
 

speaking of transmissions .... the floor shift was omnipresent until when; around 1941 or so?

but what happens if a rodder has a three speed transmission, and not the means or desire to put the lever on the floor?

for him, the journey may be the destination with no hurried anticipation of getting there.

or maybe his gal likes doing the "slide-over" and sitting next to him on those long drives. kinda hard to feel romantic with a steel shaft between your knees.

i've yet to find the interconnection between the transmission linkage and the two perpendicular stalks which emerge from the steering column mounted shaft connected to the shift lever.

any link to a diagram or help piecing this puzzle together will be greatly appreciated.

thanks,

sid

Re: three on the tree shifting [more scale model research]
 

Do a google image search for 1940 ford gearshift linkage. You will find lots of images showing the parts.

Re: three on the tree shifting [more scale model research]
 

you must be a better googler than i, because, while i did get lots of images for

parts, i do not understand "... the interconnection between the transmission linkage and

the two perpendicular stalks which emerge from the steering column ... "

Re: three on the tree shifting [more scale model research]
 

He's back ....

Yeah, let us do all his searching and picking our brains but won't tell us a thing about the purpose. Reminds me of conversations with my boys growing up. -

- Where are you going? "someplace"
- Who are you going with? "my friends"
- Which friends? "the usual"
- When are you going to be back "don't know"
- Be careful and don't do anything stupid " yeah Dad, yada, yada ..."

Re: three on the tree shifting [more scale model research]
 

btw: can i have an advance on my allowance?

Re: three on the tree shifting [more scale model research]
 

Maybe this.

Re: three on the tree shifting [more scale model research]
 

thanks Bob C. that helps me get through the firewall and on my way towards the transmission.

the block i'm having is how the connecting rods attach and line of travel goes

from the athwartship to the parallel [to the transmission] rods. is there a type of

Heim fitting to make the 90 degree connection or ball & spring like a drag link?

i'm just not getting it. i run into things once in a while - and it takes me a while.

Re: three on the tree shifting [more scale model research]
 

Re: three on the tree shifting [more scale model research]
 

I’ll give it a try……it seems like you have a sense of humor………I think the last thing you ran into you might have hit a little hard….. There’s two flat pieces of metal perpendicular to the shaft going into the transmission….. the rod linkage from the steering column hooks to those……..Mark

Re: three on the tree shifting [more scale model research]
 

Shifter on trans.

Re: three on the tree shifting [more scale model research]
 

Re: three on the tree shifting [more scale model research]
 

so would components #7285 & #7290 (left side of picture) work in a rotation

movement (as opposed to push/ pull)?

i used to work with a fellow in the boatyards and he would explain all sorts of magical things to me from his 55+ years in the trade.

he'd always finish the lesson with "you'll catch on if you live long enough"

such is my world!

and thanks for the close up picture.

sid

Re: three on the tree shifting [more scale model research]
 

perhaps my (mis)understanding needs to go a little further up the steering column.

from memory, gear pattern is H with reverse high to the left (toward the operator) first straight down underneath, neutral is the - of the H, second up to the right of the H, and third straight down.

when the gear lever is moved, do the control arms at the end move in a rotation, or do the brackets and links allow them to . . . shoot.

i was almost getting it, but i still cannot understand how that motion is translated to the arms on the transmission in the picture Bob C posted.

from the neutral position on the shift arm, the levers can motion toward & away from the operator. from the R > 1st gear & 2 > 3 rd gear they can rotate, but, and i think i'm at least focusing the question, how are those two motions turned into rotation of the arms protruding from the transmission case?

whew . . . .

Re: three on the tree shifting [more scale model research]
 

S.E. : The slight rotation of 7285 and 7290 caused by the movement of the shift arms (7354) is transferred to parts 7280 and 7282 so that the shift arms (7231 and 7230) inside the transmission transfer the linear motion created to the synchronizers and gears inside the transmission to the desired gear selected by of the "H" pattern on the column shift.

If possible, get hold of a junk side shift transmission and take if apart one piece at a time. I bet there is a Fordbarner near you who can give you pone.

Re: three on the tree shifting [more scale model research]
 

i appreciate that because i finally (with some help!) understand how the linkage is connected (90 degree bend & cotter pin) so things are beginning to make a bit more sense. i'm at the "saturation point" and need some time to digest all this technical "stuff".

not sure i could wrangle a transmission, but there's three good car shows coming in september & october within an hour of home:

https://carcruisefinder.com/car-show...y-at-the-farm/

https://hotrodfallout.com/

https://ty-rods.org/

there's got to be at least one guy with a three speed transmission in the lot.

thanks for everyones help*

*except for the don't feed the troll guy. we'll deal with that later

Re: three on the tree shifting [more scale model research]
 

s.e: Sorry to report that I junked 3 worn out complete side shift transmission 3 months ago as you can't give them away and they are too heavy to ship. Surely, someone near you must have one they don't need. Visit some car shows and ask around -explaining why you need one.

Re: three on the tree shifting [more scale model research]
 

Sid, Ford passenger cars had floor shifts up till 1939, followed by column shift in 1940.
Many more hot rodders converted from column to floor shift than the other way around, due to the speed shift capability and durability of the floor shifter compared to the column.
With regard to your reference to Glennpm’s posts, he made an excellent point, we get lots of questions here and few responses to our own questions. With more detail provided in questions asked, we can deliver better answers, and we greatly appreciate follow-ups describing the outcome.

Re: three on the tree shifting [more scale model research]
 

Re: three on the tree shifting [more scale model research]
 

Am I missing something. The missing pieces are called, I think, shift rods and connect the column to the arms on the trans. No one mentioned these ? Or did I miss something.\ ?

Re: three on the tree shifting [more scale model research]
 

The rods are in the first picture.

Re: three on the tree shifting [more scale model research]
 

just giving me the picture posted is helpful; thank you.

often technical bulletins are so complete i get buried trying to get from A to B.

the transmission is so perfect the photographer must have had me in line when he took it.

there's a resin cottage manufacturer Replicas in Miniature Company of Maryland, Norm Veber proprietor, and i just purchased (2) of those transmissions to be used on Revell flathead engines (1:25 scale) so all this back 'n' forth will have an outlet in the near future.

thanks again,

sid

Re: three on the tree shifting [more scale model research]
 

i think reading somewhere the market shift was to ladies and the column shift was intended enforced the ease of which driving could be undertaken.

with regard to your second comment, it's not the point he tried to make, it's the way he went about it.

and by reading the thread title, one could choose to respond in a positive & polite manner, or move on. hence the addendum MORE SCALE MODEL RESEARCH in order to not confuse anyone who might be reading for comprehension.

but name calling never gets us anywhere. if there was less of it, the world might be a better place.

and if i have missed "thank you" to anyone who has helped me, consider this a blanket Thank You to cover my sin. mea culpa.*

* and glenn can still go pound sand as far as i'm concerned.

Re: three on the tree shifting [more scale model research]
 

Don't know if this will be helpful for what you are doing but, here's more photos.

Re: three on the tree shifting [more scale model research]
 

i'll say they're helpful.

each one holds a piece of the puzzle for me. and it's really convenient someone took the time to label them because it saves me from asking a gazillion other questions.

the view from the torque tube forward showing the mounting bracket is especially nice. as is the overall shots showing where the casting ends and the short section holding the flywheel would be connected. for years i thought this was one huge single piece.

i appreciate you taking the time to post these.

s.e.

Re: three on the tree shifting [more scale model research]
 

s.e.: Not sure what you mean when you say, "as is the overall shots showing where the casting ends and the short section holding the flywheel would be connected. for years I thought this was one huge single piece.

The short cast iron piece with the two motor mount bolt holes on the rear of the transmission is called the bearing retainer . It has 4 bolts (2 top & 2 bottom) that attach the clamshell housing to the rear of the transmission case and covers the universal joint and also serves as the rear motor mount. Last photo shows shift rods from column attached to shift levers on transmission. The acorn nuts securing the bearing retainer to the frame and the rod from the bellhousing are not OEM as this 1940 transmission is bolted to an 8BA engine using a 1950 Mercury bellhousing between the rear of the engine and the front of the transmission. The stock 1940 engine did not use this as the bellhousing was cast as part of the 1940 engine block.

Re: three on the tree shifting [more scale model research]
 

Also, Henry Ford (and others) wanted you to always exit the car at the curb side.

Much easier to slide across the seat with the floor shifter gone.

Re: three on the tree shifting [more scale model research]
 

Re: three on the tree shifting [more scale model research]
 

thank you for the additional photos; always something i can pick out for

additional detail.

i meant the short section between the transmission casting and the engine block.

doesn't that house the flywheel and clutch plate?

"... slide across the seat..." indeed.

reminds me of [another passion i have = old time radio] and Kingfish is of course trying

to sell Andy a 'slightly used auto - mobile' and he says something to the effect

"blue serge suit would glide right across that seat, boy".

anyway, i thought it funny.

Re: three on the tree shifting [more scale model research]
 

and going over the photos, not getting haughty, but now i can identify the "bearing retainer" - which i had thought would be a transmission mount [thank you] speedometer cable connection, and the top down pictures really help me understand how all the pieces not only fit, but relate to each other.

Q: should i ask about a clutch master cylinder?

i've found several on-line sources of diagrams & workings, but would i be correct a three speed column shift system of the '40s era would not be encumbered by a hydraulic clutch?

i just finished Driving With the Devil by Neil Thompson and he explained how Red Byron designed & built a hand operated clutch in his '53 Ford convertible to allow him to compensate for a piece of shrapnel lodged in his hip from WWII. and he raced, too. tough guys the lot.

so i assume the hydraulic clutch came later in automotive development and hopefully i don't have to think about it now! head is already bursting . .

thanks again,

s.e.

Re: three on the tree shifting [more scale model research]
 

Mopar was fooling around with hydraulic stuff pretty early but Ford was mechanical linkage for decades yet to come

Re: three on the tree shifting [more scale model research]
 

The short piece between the trans housing and the block is part of the block. At least it is on a flathead up to 48/49.

Re: three on the tree shifting [more scale model research]
 

oh; i thought it was a separate casting.

thanx

Re: three on the tree shifting [more scale model research]
 

Mart got it right. Here's some photos of the engine block with the "bell housing" cast as part of the block.
https://www.bing.com/search?q=1940+f...ANAB01&PC=HCTS
The later blocks were known as 8BA style blocks and used a separate bellhousing bolted to the rear of the block to house the flywheel. Early Ford and late Ford flywheels are not interchangeable.

Re: three on the tree shifting [more scale model research]
 

s.e.: Here's Fordbarn thread that provides tons of information about that you will happily devour.
https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=334280

Also, as a side note, 1940 Fords did not have a way of locking the driver side door from outside the car. You could only lock the driver side door by pulling up the inside door handle which meant you had to exit the car from the pass. side if you wanted to lock both doors.
Henry didn't want folks stepping out into traffic.

Re: three on the tree shifting [more scale model research]
 

youse guys are answering questions before i can even formulate them = not fair!

i really DO appreciate the help. my reference files doth runeth over. i hope it's okay

to print some of those pictures. {if not just let me know please].

rain is forecast for friday, so i now know i will have plenty of research material to

go through. bicycle rides will have to wait for saturday & sunday.

best,

sid

Re: three on the tree shifting [more scale model research]
 

s.e: Perhaps I missed it but, what exactly are you using all this information for?
Is it for written research or practical application? Just curious.

Re: three on the tree shifting [more scale model research]
 

see the thread title.

i have a construction [residential carpentry] background and my mechanical abilities/ knowledge falls short.

nothing worse than a scale model with a distributor bolted to the intake manifold, a flathead with four pipe exhaust, or no plumbing going to the radiator.

and it's in my nature to fester on minutia - so things like this keep me going.

for the longest time i could not understand why my dial caliper readings never matched standard specifications. it's a decent just under $100 tool, perhaps pale by comparison to some, but for me it was an investment.

there was always a discrepancy in my real world measurements and factory specifications. come to find out - DUH! - i wasn't engaging the little knurly thing wheel until i had pulled on it a few [+ usually] thousands. no wonder, huh?

behavior modification.

some people do crossword puzzles, i'll be amongst those feeding the pigeons soon enough, but for now, this is keeping me going.

Re: three on the tree shifting [more scale model research]
 

s.e: RE: "......it's in my nature to fester on minutia." Your attention to detail is a great attribute and a talent not every has as you have to have the patience of a toothache.
You would have been a great dentist.

Anyhow, keep pressing forward because as you master the small items, the big one's fall into place, little by little. Plus, you learn as you go.

Re: three on the tree shifting [more scale model research]
 

thanks for the encouragement.

as mom used to say "some days you could p^$$ off a saint"

well, i did my best to try, anyway.

sid

Re: three on the tree shifting [more scale model research]
 

it's not just me i guess:

https://youtu.be/0nTiPzqWKtA?si=iIcBNf7EHn3R9Ox0