'40 rear fender rub one side only
 

We inherited a 1940 Ford Deluxe recently and overall it's in great condition. One thing we noticed on our second drive was that the outside face of the left rear tire is rubbing at the rear lower corner of the wheel well.

It looks like from my father-in-laws notes, that he put new rims and tires on it recently (235/65/R17). I'm sure they are bigger and wider than stock, but what's odd is that on the right side rear fender there's plenty of room for the tire.

There are no wheel spacers or anything. It's the stock rear end, brakes, and springs. I looked and I don't see any evidence that one fender was bent/damaged and repaired.

When I start measuring from the edge of the fender to various spots on the rear end and frame, I'm definitely seeing numbers that show the fender is a bit closer (narrower, more curved?). It also looks like the rear end isn't quite centered to the frame (it might be shifted a bit to the left). The differences I'm seeing are in the range of 3/8" - 3/4" between left and right sides.

A couple of questions:

Is that type of variation (1/2") normal just because of the manufacturing techniques of the day or is that something I should dig into more? The car seems to drive fine.

I feel like I can solve the rub issue a few ways (and yes, I know smaller tires is one, but since one side isn't rubbing, that's not my first pick). Should I lift the body a bit? Can I do that just with spring adjustments? Should I shim out the fender brace a bit with some washers? Should I try to shift the whole body/suspension so that it's more centered?

Lots of questions I know, and thank you in advance.

Ian

Re: '40 rear fender rub one side only
 

It’s unlikely but the transverse spring might not be centered. The bolt that holds the spring together has a square head that fits into a square hole in the center of the rear cross member. It’s not too much of a job to undo the 4 nuts that hold the spring up into the cross member and check that the square is in the hole. Those of us who have pulled transmissions know the procedure pretty well but jack up the axle, put jack stands on the frame and lower the axle just enough to check that side to side alignment.

Re: '40 rear fender rub one side only
 

IMO It's the fender ,damaged and not repaired properly.

Re: '40 rear fender rub one side only
 

This is pretty easy to check. Put your finger on the top center of the crossmember. If you feel that the crossmember and the spring bolt head are close to flush, the rear-end is centered correctly. If the square headed spring bolt is not in the square crossmember hole, your fingertip will feel a depression. A small inspection mirror would help too.

Re: '40 rear fender rub one side only
 

One issue not of a concern to the restorer crowd (stock suspension/stock wheel and tires) but can rear its ugly head to the rodder crowd (bigger tires and lowered suspension) is that the Ford fender wheel opening was staggered 3/8" front to back 1938-1948. Just an idiosyncrasy of Ford's manufacture.


On our 1938-40 fenders (fiberglass of course) we cheated the wheel opening 3/16 on each fender to compensate.

Re: '40 rear fender rub one side only
 

Number one is the tires are too wide and the wheel offset could be different than the other wheel. Also check to see if the rear fender brace is broken or missing. That would allow the fender to slant inward. As others have suggested the rear spring may not be centered in the crossmenber.

Re: '40 rear fender rub one side only
 

Also check rear spring shackles and bushings .

Re: '40 rear fender rub one side only
 

Thanks everyone! That's a good list of things for me to take a look at over the next couple of days.

Re: '40 rear fender rub one side only
 

I was wondering about the shackles and bushings. What would I be looking for in terms of good/bad? I assume I don't want to have any slop in them, but should I also be looking at the shackle angle? It wasn't clear to me if the shackle angle impacts the body height, or if it's more of an indicator of leaf spring health (which might also impact the body height).

Thanks!

Re: '40 rear fender rub one side only
 

Looking at the shackles, the shaft should be centered in the spring and axle mount . Both should be at the same incline , though weight distribution on the car and spring conditions would alter the angle

Re: '40 rear fender rub one side only
 

Looking at the spring and shackles everything seems OK, or at least seems symmetrical.

The center bolt holding the spring is seated correctly, but the nut isn't tight, so I'll snug that up.

The shackles are at even angles, but if someone wants to let me know if it's a 'good' angle that would be awesome.

I think I could shim the fender brace and gain maybe 1/2", but I'm not comfortable doing any more than that and I don't think that's probably going to yield enough clearance for highway driving, so probably not useful.

Unless someone says my springs and shocks are abysmal, I think I've probably come up with "tires are too wide" as the root cause.

Many thanks everyone!

Re: '40 rear fender rub one side only
 

https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/attac...6&d=1752456112

https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/attac...7&d=1752456112

https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/attac...8&d=1752456112

https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/attac...9&d=1752456112

Re: '40 rear fender rub one side only
 

In the first picture it looks like a bar is attached by the fuel pump , if so is it an aftermarket track / panhard bar ? Again if it is it could be adjusted incorrectly.

Re: '40 rear fender rub one side only
 

Looks like a fuel line to me. How about a pic of the fender in relation to the tire? Several views.

Re: '40 rear fender rub one side only
 

From my perspective the shackles look like they are longer than stock, but they appear to be in good shape. The wider tires and possibly wheel offset are the problem.

Re: '40 rear fender rub one side only
 

nothing to do with the tire clearance issue but that angle of those shocks is making them almost totally ineffective.

Re: '40 rear fender rub one side only
 

Another problem you need to fix is the awful leaned over angle of your shock absorbers.
If the shocks were vertical, they would be most effective, allowing the shocks to actually stroke and damp out road irregularities. On the other hand if the shock was laid over horizontally, they wouldn't work at all. The angle of your shocks will stroke the shocks very little and not do their job.

Good sketch from the HAMB

https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/attac...7&d=1752506800

Re: '40 rear fender rub one side only
 

Day 2 (?) Report:

Someone had asked about something near the fuel filter that was maybe a suspension piece. It's not, it's either fuel line or fuel gauge wire. I checked up and around that area and there are no suspension parts like you were describing.


Regarding the shocks, I'm glad a couple of you mentioned that. When I got under there I did think they were fairly horizontal. I can see a spot where I could bolt them more vertical, but I'll need to get the exhaust re-routed. While I can turn a wrench or wire a relay, I'm not a cutter/welder! I do think that's a project to do down the line, though, so thank you for calling it out.

There was also a request for pictures of the fender and tire. Take a look at those on this post. For reference there's also one picture of the right rear tire's fender gap.

Thanks everyone!

Re: '40 rear fender rub one side only
 

That is a lot of tire where a 6.00x16 is supposed to go. It would be interesting to see the gap between the back side of the tire and the body. Sometimes people who modify a car spend a lot of money for aesthetics over function.

Re: '40 rear fender rub one side only
 

https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/attac...1&d=1752550464

https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/attac...2&d=1752550464

https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/attac...3&d=1752550464

Re: '40 rear fender rub one side only
 

Thanks for posting the pics.The arch of that rear brace could be different than the other side.Putting a 1/2 spacer on the body side ? To me your wheels are to wide (can you determine the width & setback?) ,Street Rod look ? No sure if a next size down tire would be much different, Than the cost ?

Re: '40 rear fender rub one side only
 

Pull the fender and brace out a little bit to make more clearance.

You have a few things that are making things worse for you.
1, oversize wheels.
2, oversize tires.
3, overlong shackles.
4, possibly other mods to lower the car. (flatter spring, leaves removed perhaps.)

It's not surprising you have clearance issues. The overlong shackles will allow more side to side movement on the axle during cornering.

Once you go to a modified condition you are left to your own devices. You could pull the rear of the fender out but the front will go in. What is the clearance like there?

You need to use your own judgement how to gain the clearance you want.

If it is experience you lack, there may be someone local that can cast an eye over it and offer advice/help.

Re: '40 rear fender rub one side only
 

Your tire size indicates a 17 inch wheel. Changing wheel sizes needs to be done carefully to avoid tires hitting things. Your wheels may have the wrong back spacing. I'm not a lot of help when it comes to aftermarket wheels, I use the ones Ford made for my cars and have no problems with tire to fender rubbing.

Re: '40 rear fender rub one side only
 

Many years ago I had the same tire clearance problem and found it to be an easy fix. Body fender work had been done on the fender years before.

At some point in its life that fender was probably worked on with a hammer and dolly causing it to loose its exact OEM contour.

Remove the lower rear fender brace bolt and you will find that the lower rear part of the fender is very flexible and can easily be pulled out by hand a little to provide more tire clearance. This won't damage the fender. Then modify the fender brace to fit and reinstall or install a spacer between the fender brace and the frame rail.

Re: '40 rear fender rub one side only
 

Re: '40 rear fender rub one side only
 

Thanks Pete. Big difference.

Re: '40 rear fender rub one side only
 

Undo the bolt between the curved brace and the frame. Get a slightly longer bolt. Then try stacking some washers between the brace and the frame. One at a time until the side of the fender looks plumb. Any more than that and you’ll have to switch your wheels.

Re: '40 rear fender rub one side only
 

So, just an update (and another Thank You!).

I was able to procure some used, but good enough, 215/55/R17 tires and got those mounted. Of course, the problem went away. I'd prefer something a bit bigger, but this was the cheapest, easiest way to get the car to the point where I could do test drives while working and joy rides around town!

Re: '40 rear fender rub one side only
 

I would use a 235X75X15 series tire and the 15 inch wheel, it's narrower and taller than what you have now. In my avatar that is what I have on my 40 and no rubbing.

Re: '40 rear fender rub one side only
 

I am glad the O/P solved his problem on his own.

However, I don't think this forum was ever intended to help folks put 55 series 17" tires on '40 Fords. I think "TJ" did it right by simply stating what he should have done.

I know some of you folks want to expand the number of younger people in the hobby, but at what price?