Flathead pre-oiler - good, bad and the ugly?
 

Posted this on the HAMB earlier today, and so far no responses, so decided to post it here as well.

Decided last week to fab up a pre-oiler to use on the first start-up on my C59A. Hoping to start it for the first time in a couple of weeks. Some background. Engine was rebuilt (short block) back in 2019 IIRC. I didn’t get around to doing the final assembly until 2023-2024. I used Permatex Ultra Slick engine assembly lube on stuff I assembled like oil pan pump and cam gear. Has 5 quarts of Lucas 5W-30 Hot Rod oil in the pan.
Since it’s been sitting for so long, thought it would be a good idea to somehow pre-pressurize the internal passages. My understanding with flatheads this is impossible due to the distributor drive config (I put a helmet style on). So, the idea of a pre-oiler. Got this old air tank and modded it. Tank has crude/rust inside so added the Ford style remote oil filter. Now wondering does this make sense. Will the filter trap all the crude inside the tank?

Re: Flathead pre-oiler - good, bad and the ugly?
 

I saw it over there and think it looks good. Face it, a lot of those guys are clueless when it comes to stuff like this, preferring rather Rambler station wagons and clapped out '53 Chevrolets 4 gaters. It's all part of "engaging the next generation".

Your gizmo looks well thought out and should work fine. I doubt if there is a pint of empty space left in the entire lubrication system, so just go easy and stop when you strike oil.

Re: Flathead pre-oiler - good, bad and the ugly?
 

https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/attac...9&d=1745014921

https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/attac...0&d=1745014921

https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/attac...1&d=1745014921

Re: Flathead pre-oiler - good, bad and the ugly?
 

Good evening,

Beautiful job o the pre oiler.

But was it necessary? Using good quality assembly lube pretty much eliminates the need for pigging the block,especially if you turn it over til it makes oil pressure. But since you have put in the time to build the pre oiler use it. THe filter will pick up micron sized crud. However what happens if there is enough crud to overwhelm the filter? I'd run a few quarts of Marvel or ATF through it if you haven't done so already to flush it. THen change filters and off you go.

If you paid attention to detail like you did on the oiler when building the engine you should not have a problem. Those engines in stock form are pretty under stressed. You're not building a 650 to 750hp Ford V8 designed to go five hundred miles in the 100* plus heat around Talladega or Daytona at 8000 plus RPM.

My favorite assembly lube is Permatex 81850.

tony

Re: Flathead pre-oiler - good, bad and the ugly?
 

A pre oiler is an excellent idea. Prior to starting the Ford flathead engine's I run in our very fast race car I use what's called an Accusump to always first get oil pressure up prior to firing the engine. Its similar to the system you built.
The added bonus to the Accusump system is if there's a loss of oil pressure the charged 3 quart chamber will supply oil to the engine to help it survive.
Ronnieroadster

Re: Flathead pre-oiler - good, bad and the ugly?
 

I even pre-oil my mowers before I put them in ignition mode! splash system.

Re: Flathead pre-oiler - good, bad and the ugly?
 

A great idea, credit to you. I just made a long funnel that screws into the oil port on the back end of the block, takes about a quart, that takes 20 minutes or so to drain down, then I'll do another quart. Its prolly not filling everything like yours, but makes pressure immediately just cranking it over

Re: Flathead pre-oiler - good, bad and the ugly?
 

Thanks for the feedback. Probably overkill, but just a little paranoid. Since I also rebuilt the carb, fuel pump, distributor, and did all the final assembly, chances are it just won’t fire up on the first try. This also has me a bit worried, as not sure if excessive cranking on a fresh engine is detrimental. I’ll flush it out with oil for sure before using it and will check the oil coming out to see how it looks.
On another note, does it matter which of the three passages at the back of the block it connects to? The copper line is connected to a vintage oil pressure gauge.

Re: Flathead pre-oiler - good, bad and the ugly?
 

Pic of the back of the block with the oil ports.

Re: Flathead pre-oiler - good, bad and the ugly?
 

Great idea.

Re: Flathead pre-oiler - good, bad and the ugly?
 

Ziggster,
You would be better starting off with a clean pressure vessel, like an inexpensive common garden sprayer, vs one containing "crud/rust". Using a filter is a good, but a standard full flow would allow much higher volume, important when pre-oiling.
Pictured is the one I use on my remote-filtered flatheads and BBFE during initial fresh build start-ups, and regular oil changes.

Re: Flathead pre-oiler - good, bad and the ugly?
 

I would think the filter would work, but I'd try it out first and make sure you don't puke fluid out of the top of it (as it is not a full-flow filter, but a drip-feed filter).

I would have used a full-flow filter myself . . . but your system might work?

Re: Flathead pre-oiler - good, bad and the ugly?
 

That is a great idea! Cheap and easy to build!

Re: Flathead pre-oiler - good, bad and the ugly?
 

Hey Ronnie, that is what we run on the FlatCAD as well . . . nice to know you have pressurized out to the mains before you start a race motor!

Re: Flathead pre-oiler - good, bad and the ugly?
 

You can use any of those three ports - they all end up pumping out into the main galley above the camshaft

Re: Flathead pre-oiler - good, bad and the ugly?
 

Re: Flathead pre-oiler - good, bad and the ugly?
 

Re: Flathead pre-oiler - good, bad and the ugly?
 

Not to be negative regarding pre-oiler systems ..... My '47 doesn't sit toooo long between usage. The engine is in good condition, has an 80 lb oil pump and at idle RPM its mechanical gauge shows 80 lbs when cold and 20-25 lbs when at running temperature. If it did sit for long I'd put fresh 10w oil in, remove the plugs, squirt some MMO in the cylinders and crank the engine without plugs for a few cycles of at least a minute each AFTER the mechanical oil gauge shows pressure. After starting and running to normal temperature, I'd then change to the usual 10w-30w I use. For short periods of non-use I just crank the engine with ignition off until oil pressure is full up. Stop, let the pressure dispense, then start the engine.

Re: Flathead pre-oiler - good, bad and the ugly?
 

I had actually thought about that. I think I have one somewhere. lol!

Re: Flathead pre-oiler - good, bad and the ugly?
 

If the stk filter is not a full-flow design, then it’s a non-starter for me using that tank. Will have to rethink this whole setup.

Re: Flathead pre-oiler - good, bad and the ugly?
 

In the real world nobody stakes the time to prime an engine. We didn't do it at the phone company but that was on "their" engines. On my personal stuff I always prime the oil systems before attempting to start them Don't forget to run the new camshaft at the desired break-in rpm for the duration suggested, usually around 20-minutes. I pre-fill the carb and anything else I can think of so that hopefully it cranks a couple turns and lights off. Then immediately take the rpm up to camshaft break-in specs. After the cam is broke then I'll idle it down and adjust the timing and Idel air fuel mixture.

Re: Flathead pre-oiler - good, bad and the ugly?
 

Thanks! That’s the plan. Had the original cam reground by Pete out in WA. Went with the Isky 1007B? IIRC. ItÂ’s all stk other than the cam and overbore.

Re: Flathead pre-oiler - good, bad and the ugly?
 

Went ahead and ordered this. Will replace the stk Ford setup with this for full-flow filtration.

Re: Flathead pre-oiler - good, bad and the ugly?
 

There is no advantage, changing it to a (22 litres a minute) full flow filter! You are not going to be pumping it at a rate that will overwhelm the bypass filter. You only need to get the pressure up once! You may want to leave the pressure up for a while to force the air out of the oil pick up, but seriously 3 PSI would be plenty. I've done it with a funnel as in post #7.
It's a great idea, looks good as it is. I'm guessing you are going to pressurize it, then turn the valve off, then crank it over. Don't overthink it!

Re: Flathead pre-oiler - good, bad and the ugly?
 

Have the rest of the modifications required for the conversion to full flow already been done? IIRC, the right most port in your picture is part of it.

Re: Flathead pre-oiler - good, bad and the ugly?
 

tubman is correct! you must be 100% sure there is no restriction between the two unused holes (plugs)
someone has done some modifications to facilitate a 80% fullflow filter. part of this proceedure is to put an internal plug in the oil gallery. the internal plug goes between the fitting with the copper tube and the innermost brass plug
if the internal plug is in there and you run the engine it will be destroyed!

Re: Flathead pre-oiler - good, bad and the ugly?
 

Ok. Good to know. Pretty sure there are no mods to those passages, but will now verify.

Re: Flathead pre-oiler - good, bad and the ugly?
 

Why go to a "Full-Flow" system? With the maintenance and utilization of these vehicles these days, a "Bypass Filter" is an ideal solution for these engines. Back in the old days, we had dirt roads, bad weather conditions, and neglect; now we have paved roads, "Sunday Drive" conditions, and regular (sometimes overzealous) maintenance. In addition, a "Bypass Filter" will remove smaller particles than a "Full Flow" will. It's the perfect storm.

As to availability of filters, have you tried an farm implement dealer? The filter on my flathead Ford is the same as used in 8N and 9N Ford tractors and is readily available.

Re: Flathead pre-oiler - good, bad and the ugly?
 

Hey Tubman . . . I wasn't recommending that he goes to a full-flow for the car, but was thinking that for his pre-oiler, the filtration system he has may or may not work - will depend on the pressure and amount of volume. Heck, why not try it?

Re: Flathead pre-oiler - good, bad and the ugly?
 

I agree with you about the pre-oiler; volume is the key here. My first comment was in response to his post showing the remote filter mount; I wanted to make sure he knew that he needed more than that for a full flow system. My last post is just my opinion of which filtering system is best these days.

Re: Flathead pre-oiler - good, bad and the ugly?
 

I use a SBC oil pump in a bucket of new oil. The threaded rod slip into the normal mounti8ng hole but stops short of the discharge plate I made. The other end slips over a bucket edge.

I drive it with my slotted pump driver. I made this one over fifty years ago. They can be bought now for little money. I drive it with an air drill which has the torque to drive it. Discharge tubing goes to correct fitting on back of flathead block.

https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/attac...3&d=1745171698

https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/attac...2&d=1745171698

https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/attac...4&d=1745171698

Re: Flathead pre-oiler - good, bad and the ugly?
 

Ok, finally an update. Really wanted to use the air tank, but then the comment about the oil filter had me worried. Wasn’t sure exactly what Bored&Stroked meant. So, came across a vid on BarryTsGarage on YT, where Ed Smith talked about not using the Ford filter. Said it was not a “pressurized” type filter and was only a flow type filter. He talked about the special “fitting” which I’m guessing is the “restrictor” and how there was there was no pressure inside the filter, and the oil would just drain back into the pan. I had no idea, just being familiar with “modern” type oil filters, I just assumed it was the same.
Also, checked the oil passages to make sure there was no internal plug inside the passage, and confirmed there was no plug.
So, cut the hose on the Home Depot sprayer, and just pushed on a fitting with a hose barb on one end and a 1/4 NPT on the other end. Added about one of the Lucas Hot Rod oil, and started pumping. Was going down slowly, so, cracked the flare nut at the oil pressure gauge, until I saw oil dripping out. Tightened up the fitting, and by the time I went back to the sprayer, it had sucked up all the oil, so not sure now if it pushed some air into the system. Also hand cranked the engine over a couple tim while adding the oil.

Re: Flathead pre-oiler - good, bad and the ugly?
 

Also watched this vid, which just convinced me to go with the Home Depot sprayer. He had the same sprayer. lol!

https://youtu.be/fNcYcz78YmY

Re: Flathead pre-oiler - good, bad and the ugly?
 

The vid of Ed Smith on BarryTsGarage talking about the Ford oil filter and why not to use it.

https://youtube.com/shorts/Pzmwis53O...5A5N5NbSkAsnOD

Re: Flathead pre-oiler - good, bad and the ugly?
 

Some pics. Couldn’t really get a good pic of the open internal oil passage. Used a wire as well to verify passage was not plugged..