9" rear in a jailbar truck
 

I have been reading a thread tonight that goes into quite a discussion about the problematic axles in a banjo rear end. I have read tales of sphincters tightening as nuts are twisted, wheels with drums flying into oncoming traffic, threads stripping, cracks appearing, keys shearing and then going through it all again if you'd like to check out your brakes...
Ever since I built and installed a 276 flathead mated to a T-5 in my truck based woodie wagon I have been thinking about completing this powertrain 'upgrade' with a 9" 4:11 rear from a '57-'72 Ford 1/2 ton pickup. IIRC this is a simple and direct 'bolt in' to my jailbar springs and driveshaft. I see there are quite a few guys on CL and Marketplace who sell these and seem familiar with inspecting and general overhaul. Since my woodie is far from being an original anything, why would I Not want to go this route? Right now, all seems fine, but I can now go 70 on the interstate and seems like a good move for piece of mind as I venture further from home in my 'semi-retirement' phase. Thanks, Gary

Re: 9" rear in a jailbar truck
 

Sounds like a good plan to me. Safer for you and yours and that truck you built is the only one like it on the planet. Axle failure at 70 MPH would be bad.

Re: 9" rear in a jailbar truck
 

Gary, I hear tell, (no experience myself) that a 9" is overkill for a flathead, an 8" being more appropriate. Perhaps a comparison of options here would benefit your goal? I believe they both have the common ratios of 3.27, 3.55, and 3.73, the 9" being used for F250/F350, the 8" for F150. more info than that is above my paygrade.

Re: 9" rear in a jailbar truck
 

Re: 9" rear in a jailbar truck
 

I think it comes down to what do you have available and at what price? A 9" rear is definitely overkill from a strength perspective, but there are more parts available for 9" Ford rear ends than probably any other made.

However, a good 8" Ford rear is lighter, has all the ratios you could want and there were definitely some that were 5 x 5.5 bolt pattern. Either one will work - just find a good one at a fair price. ;). I think a gear ratio of 3.73 or 4.11 would work out fine with your overdrive setup. I would probably choose a 3.73 if I had a choice.

Re: 9" rear in a jailbar truck
 

I'm using A 1999 8.8 from a merc mountaineer in my 1948 merc coupe. It has 3.73 gears, posi. and is 1/2" narrower than the original unit. I think a pre-1999 unit w/o disc brakes would work fine with your set up. they're pretty stout rears. just my useless opinion. lol, tom

Re: 9" rear in a jailbar truck
 

The F-250 and F 350 would be full floaters with 8 lugs. There were some F250s with semi-float but still 8 lug. These 3/4 amd 1 tons would typically have a dana 60, or in later years a sterling 10 1/4. The 4:11 is absolutely perfect for the island with so many hills and really 60 is more comfortable on the rare freeway trips. My rear tires are a bit over 30" tall so there's a little 'rubber overdrive' as well. Most of the 8 and 8.8 seem to be set up for the springs being under the axle, and mine are above. I have moved and welded spring pads before but the '57-'72 seem the best fit. I'm glad I have received a favorable response on this subject and thanks for the input. And I do kinda like a bit of 'overkill' sometimes. I will continue my research!

Re: 9" rear in a jailbar truck
 

Hi Gary, Back in the day when I put a 9" out of a 64 thunder bird in my 42 jail bar. the width was good as in it looked right and the pinion yoke length worked as well. I did it for the 3.00 gears back then. The only issue was the lugbolt pattern but I just put on a set of custum wheels and all was well. Tim

Re: 9" rear in a jailbar truck
 

I think something missing in this discussion is the weight on the axle. Engine torque and thrust are not the only considerations, the load carrying ability of the rear end structure and bearings should be considered as well as the braking torque on the axle housing (related to total weight of the vehicle). If Gary is not going to carry more weight than the 1/2 ton pickup at full capacity he should be just fine. If the rear end will be overloaded then think bigger. The 8" is a great little rear end (emphasis on LITTLE) and should be reserved (and preferred) for roadsters, coupes, and pre 1935 sedans.

Re: 9" rear in a jailbar truck
 

I think it is a great idea - with parts, brake shoes, and the complexity of changing anything in a banjo rear, it really is a no-brainer, 9 or 8”. There are more readily available junk yard pumpkin gearsets for the 9 vs 8” rears so 9” overkill - yes - practicality the 9” is a clear winner in my book. Oh - if you are running a 5.5” bolt pattern go 9”.
Go for it!

Re: 9" rear in a jailbar truck
 

I went the 9" route with 3.73 ratio and a t-5 transmission behind a warmed-over flathead, and love the result.

Re: 9" rear in a jailbar truck
 

A rear end from an earlier Bronco would be a good choice with 5 on 5 1/2 bolt pattern but they are more $$ than 1/2 ton units IIRC. Plus the springs are on top of the axle tubes, again IIRC. An 8 inch out of a Maverick would be a good choice based on it's 56.25 WMS to WMS but it's 5 on 4 1/2 and most are high 2's or low 3's ratios.

Re: 9" rear in a jailbar truck
 

I think its a good idea. The rear that was popular with those darn kids was the 57 -59 ford car 9" rearend as it was the best match in width for the old Ford bodies.

61 1/4". 57-72 f100
57.1/4" 57 -59 car
I can't remember, is your open drive banjo wider than 48 cars?

Re: 9" rear in a jailbar truck
 

Gary, This sounds like a good idea to me, from reading how much work is involved in working on brakes or axles, etc on a banjo-style rear. This may be a more HAMB related discussion, but there may be another option. Don't know if it would be much if any cheaper, but there is an outfit in California (Where else?) that can provide 9" axles, bearings, and such for your existing rear. It would probably involve a complete rebuild of the assembly anyway, tho. to get to where you would like to be.

Al Hook

Don't forget: "Murphy's law is one of the natural laws that you don't read about in the psysics books"

Re: 9" rear in a jailbar truck
 

Skip, probably so. The pickups got a 2 1/2" increase in width in '42. This was also true of the tonners. My '38 tonner express had 46 1/2" between rear fender wells in bed. Imagine what I went throgh as a cabinetmaker running that thing all those years. The jailbar tonner express has 49" clear! The tailgate closes too.

Re: 9" rear in a jailbar truck
 

I've never seen an 8" with 5.5 bolt pattern. 8.8 sure...but not 8". A 9" from a pickup would be perfect. That's a good plan, GB, and you'll be glad you did it. :)

Re: 9" rear in a jailbar truck
 

Gary
I would definitely stick with the 4.11 ratio. When driving the local rural roads in 3 speed standard drive, I’ve found it useful on the Tonner in combination with the engine compression to assist braking. Also useful when pulling a trailer or a parade float.
Les

Re: 9" rear in a jailbar truck
 

I had one out in SoCal about 40 years ago (was going to use the axles in a banjo build) . . . I believe I still have the 28 spline axles in my Mom's garage. ;)

Re: 9" rear in a jailbar truck
 

Last time I was in Hansville I didn't notice any superhighways! As far as the 4:11 goes, I have learned through 48 years on this giant rock that it's as tall as I want here. Keep in mind I'm partial to tall narrow tires, and HP just north of 100 at best. It's that Borg Warner OD that keeps me truckin' on Interste 5 :)

Re: 9" rear in a jailbar truck
 

A 9 or 8” is alot easier to work on, parts are still readily available, and it’s a much stronger than a banjo, 8 or 9”, for a 1/2 ton truck. For me, I think 75 mph at 2500 rpm - there are calculators out there to figure this out w/5th gear ratio, tire diameter, gearset - a flathead’ needs hesat and its sweetspot is 22-2800 rpm. My avatar w/stock flathead can run 85 mph at 2800 rpm and never missed a beat and never overheated. Stick in the 8 or 9” - you won’t regret it!

Re: 9" rear in a jailbar truck
 

Proving to be harder to find than I thought. While I have never used facebook for 'socializing' have to say their marketplace is surpassing craigslist in any catergory I go to. But still nothing coming up. Thought I'd call some wrecking yards today, but really I would not be too surprised to find one on the island. It's expensive to get rid of vehicles here when scrap is so low. Pickups have long been a mainstay and older vehicles are still viable for a dd or work truck because of speed or distance. I can put out some feelers here on the island too. Maybe a want ad on FTE site.

Re: 9" rear in a jailbar truck
 

The important part is to make sure you can pull the pumpkin and inspect the gears and bearings. If you can't do that, you have no idea as to what you're getting into. It is not a hard job . . . just a bit messy! LOL

Re: 9" rear in a jailbar truck
 

IF you get an 8 inch rearend be careful putting it back together. If yopu put the Pig in upside down you will ha 3 speeds in reverse. Dont ask how I know this

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That could come in very handy in a demolition derby!

Re: 9" rear in a jailbar truck
 

Swap meet season is here. Found a real old wrecking yard nr Elma , Wa; got my Olds eng there two weeks ago. you want a 1/2ton Ford PU rear diff complete 57 thru 72. Auto adj brakes in the later ones. Thru town on north side, just a fence and all blackberries. Across street is a junkie living with all sorts of wrecks. Pm me for phone to that junkie- he was at Early Bird swap this yr. Newc

Re: 9" rear in a jailbar truck
 

Stay with your '57-'72 F-100 9" plan; it checks all the boxes. Right width, good gear ratio, correct bolt pattern, and decent 11" brakes.

In any case it might be a good idea to update your front brakes if you are still running Lockheed brakes.

Re: 9" rear in a jailbar truck
 

Things looking up! Rebuilt and unused 4:11 28 spline 3rd member located and another guy that has a complete rear axle he pulled from a '56 half ton that is definately a 9", He pulled the third member out of it for another project with a 9" rear. The axle is about an hour's drive from the ferry dock on the mainland. I will keep you posted. Both sellers are very knowledgable ford enthusiasts from the old school. Yay! Details to follow.

Re: 9" rear in a jailbar truck
 

The guy no longer has the one from the '56 but turns out his son has one at his shop from a '71 F100. He took the pumpkin out and put it in a customer's '67 mustang. He said axles are 28 spline. Son sent me the pics. Gonna try to get down there next week.

Re: 9" rear in a jailbar truck
 

Thats a good one, I think they got wider brakes in 67 or so

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The drums look to be wider than my stock setup. I think they might be 11" diameter.

Re: 9" rear in a jailbar truck
 

They are 11" x 2", self adjusting, Bendix. My new 61, 11x1 3/4, manual adjusters.

Re: 9" rear in a jailbar truck
 

So I scored on this one Skip? Best part is I have met and had detailed phone conversations with two super nice and helpful 79 year old Ford experts. Sure, some of the details have been about our families, hobbies, work, weather, health etc, but it reminds me of the days of collecting early gas engines and parts in the 80s when you'd read an ad in 'Gas Engine Magazine', or car parts in Hemmings, and you'd 'meet' some guy in Nebraska (or 49 other states) that actually had the part or knew how to make one or find one. I'll never forget a call to Oklahoma where the wife answered and said "He's out Chorin' ". I had her repeat it 3 times and finally she yelled... "He's out DOIN' his CHORES, he'll call you when he gets in."

Re: 9" rear in a jailbar truck
 

Good humor GB, Hillbilly is one of the more difficult languages to master. I'm sure the old feller had a notion that if he quit chorin to talk about old junk he may get a whoopin.

Next, you will have to "figger" the brakes. That may take some cypherin as you got 3 1/6 lines in the new rear, and...the old single master and 1/4" in the woody? Rich B the brake guru will hopefully come in and sort this all out.

Re: 9" rear in a jailbar truck
 

I'm sure I will need plenty of help getting the brakes working correctly and as usual will be looking to those who have been down that ol' road before me for advice. I am trying to train myself to be happy with my three current old trucks instead of every year dragging home another beater to get running and stopping. My new path is to finish the three keepers I now have with good headlights, wipers, heaters etc. Piece by piece I am now doing that with help from lots of you 'Barners, And thanks!

Re: 9" rear in a jailbar truck
 

I wonder how wide that new housing is? It just looks wide to me . . . but who the heck knows from just a picture. You might have him measure drum face to drum face as well as center of spring pad to center of spring pad.

But, if it needs to be narrowed, that can be done (with the right equipment). The axles can be shortened and resplined as well. The only issue is that "that all takes money"!

Re: 9" rear in a jailbar truck
 

All good Dale. Keep in mind the jailbars are 2 1/2" wider than the prewar pickups and like today's pickups haul 4x8 plywood between the wheel wells, so yes it would look wide to most here. Extensive research assures me that any housing from an F100 1957-1972 is a direct bolt in to a '42-'56 1/2 ton. Spring perches as well as housing width, which is 61.25 would be spot on. This housing was not offered up anywhere or listed for sale, but the father of the axle's owner referred me to it. The dad has been a die-hard ford truck collector for many years and from talking to the son, he learned much from dad. Sellers daughter drives a '72 f100. Needed sheet metal. They followed a lead to Prosser Wa on the dry side of the Cascades and bought a comp;ete and rust free parts truck '71. Upon arriving home the truck was parted out. At some point the 3rd member went to that mustang. I checked body styles and '71-72 are same, so I know it isn't from a '73. Guy was super helpful and friendly and said I could have the complete setup seen in the photos for 200 bucks. The completely rebuilt 4:11 pumpkin is coming from a Barner we all know, so I have great confidence in these transactions!

Re: 9" rear in a jailbar truck
 

Great news . . . I've never built or owned a later truck, so it is good to know that I've finally heard of the a part that actually "bolts in" . . . versus having to cut, splice, cuss, swear and massage it to fit! It will be perfect for your setup and the brakes are easy to work on and will be a great improvement to the old Lockheed stuff. As others noted, you might consider changing the front brakes to a later setup . . . then you'd really have the "Cat's Ass". Keep us posted on your progress!

Re: 9" rear in a jailbar truck
 

Thanks for the vote of confidence Dale. I just now read a thread on the Hamb detailing a '57-'72 9" from an f100 under a jailbar 1/2 ton. This afternoon I whipped up a crate made from 1" and 3/4" scrap plywood that fits a 9" third member. It is glued and screwed, will have a screwed down plywood lid, then banded with steel banding. This empty crate will head to Minnesota tomorrow to be returned with the great pumpkin.

Re: 9" rear in a jailbar truck
 

Even put handles in the box. You're somthin else GB

Re: 9" rear in a jailbar truck
 

That punkin' weighs 63 lbs and I bet the crate is 5 and so I figured it was the least I could do. You know I'm way too cheap to buy handles.