Intake x4
 

On a more racy look, x4 intake.

I had a thread on my Thickstun PM7 that got 2 carbs on them now ( might be only for ’get happy’ display ) even if I think it was a product after the war, not pre-war.

I’m not build a ’true’ performer and like the cubic that was used 46-48 and idea is a radical street/dragrace coupe.
So cubic will not be +300 but say around 275.
Intresting thought, se below from myflathesdford.
Again the Edelbrock Super ( x2 ) intake comes up.
I know it might be a good intake as in my case more mild street use ( but this car will not be used much or long trips ) so more a city driver, I even concider run on race fuel of smell.
But on drags, well ;- )) a Lincoln 39 gearbox and a std no diff 37 rearend and a 34 TQ tube and Taiwan made 7.50 tires…say I don’t need wheelie bars.
Its all for ’rew’, sound or sometimes in gears, but change slow.
I has now 2 Stromberg 97 and 2 LZ carbs. That makes up 4 carbs.
Shore I can try find 2 extra LZ or std 97 and leave the LZ on the Thickstun.
As I love the 4 in a row and now has 4 carbs - what intake was used and was produced before 49 ?

I guess four 97’s is to much at this cubics but I know Sweden hot rodders in Sweden used it on the 50’s and in those days its was daily driven sportcars and no strokers, and they had Porvin 3/4 cams etc.
Me I has the eliminator 425.
I seen the Edelbrock or was there other cool x4 intakes ?
Ideas.

From ; Myflatheadford.com
Bill Bently Q&A ( 1999 )

From my experience I recommend using 2X2. A 3X2 is really neat looking and can only be beat by a 4X2, but could be a drive-ability problem. They’re for Bonneville, drags, or circle track in my opinion. If you use an Offy 3X2 you should use Stombergs since good old Uncle Fred (Offenhauser) designed his 3 carb manifold using them only. (Holleys front screw in the air horn hit the carb in front of it. Some guys just grind the screw off.) Other 3X2 manifolds I’ve worked on don’t have this problem. Anyway, I got out the old pocket spiral note book I’ve entered notes, spec’s, etc. in since 1955 or thereabouts and checked on carb cfm’s and a formula to determine total carburetor cfm for street. Remember cfm is only concerned with bore, stroke, number of cylinders, and rpm’s. Nothing else affects cfm. total cfm = (rpm)(CID) divided by 3456 For an example I’ll assume the max rpm you’ll turn this is 3800. Your engine will have 276 cubes. Then: cfm =(3800)(276) divided by 3456 = 303 cfm. This is what I’d recommend for the street.

I’d use a 2X2 ‘racing’ (or ‘super’) type manifold… one that the carbs are located directly over the intake ports. You’ll have to run an offset generator on a head. They will give you a good 4% increase in power over the ‘street’ manifold. The street manifolds have the carbs located high and close together so you can run a generator in front. The long runners make for very smooth throttle response but squelch power somewhat.


The Thickstun hi-rise (street) was one of the best in producing smoothness and making the best horsepower. And I would not run a manifold on the street that doesn’t have heat risers and an equalizer chamber. Now you’re wondering what the different carbs have for cfm aren’t you? First I’ll list the Stombergs…. The model 81 is rated at 135 cfm. The model 48 is rated at 150 cfm. The model 97 is rated at 135 cfm. The Chandler-Grove/Holley cfm’s…. The model 92 is rated at 142 cfm. The model 94 is rated at 155 cfm. The model 8BA is rated at 162 cfm. The model ECG is rated at 185 cfm. 3X2 manifolds should use progressive linkage unless you’re a carb freak like I am. They make determining jetting a lot easier. I use only Stromberg 97’s for ALL multi-carb installations.

Re: Intake x4
 

Beradini Bros roadster FH x4.

Re: Intake x4
 

My kid has a 4x2 Evans on one of his coupes; if I remember right it is set up with 81's.

Re: Intake x4
 

None of the 4X2 intakes I'm aware of have heat. Only the Tattersfield 4X2 has true 180 degree runners. There were some very rare, early 4X2's (Schell & 1 or 2 others), but most were made around '48 and later.

Re: Intake x4
 

Tim, I would not run this car hit cooler weather and one can start, let it sink in and issue might not be there, if starts in morning.
But this car will be in a garage. It is not a 'normal' street rod use so to say.
But it's not just drags either, so it will be normal street driving.
So the PM7 and the Super has heat risers, or, but not the x4 intakes ( normally )
Plus is the x4 intake direct port ?
A direct port sounds maybe to radical.

Re: Intake x4
 

Given the smallish cubic inches of a 276, if I was going to run 4 carbs, they would be Stromberg 81's. You're not really building a full-on race engine, so running the 81's would make it a much better combination for what you're considering.

If I was going to use 2 carbs, I would probably run an Edelbrock Slingshot - so I could run a generator/fan in the stock location. As the manifold comes apart, you can also do some additional porting work on it (if you're so inclined).

A Potvin 425 on that size motor is a bit much . . . you'd be much better off with a Potvin 3/8.

Re: Intake x4
 

Yes, for street use the x2 Super might be the best way to go at this cubics.
If x4 and 135 cfm its ’540’.
But the x4 is so cool.

Re: Intake x4
 

I agree.

Hank, I think it would be a good idea to start narrowing down what you want to do with this build.

Re: Intake x4
 

Tim, shore I know it sounds odd…but I’m on a way more steady road than before in this build-up.
But as its a forum I love history and what was and what part and that leave to new information to collect.

Re: Intake x4
 

Was at a swapmeet today and a car show and did ask a guy there who has experiance on the FH.
I asked on x4 and heat riser and street.
He said look at that 37 coupe, it has a 8BA and a Edelbrock x4.
It run very nice, no issues at ice or any other case.
Did not take any pictures.
I did not ask on cam or cubic.

Look at this set-up, nice !

Re: Intake x4
 

Any info on this multi.

Re: Intake x4
 

The multi is an extremely hard intake to tune. With the single runner to each port you now have 8 one cylinder engine's. The one I have has Burbank California on it great item for a collection. Terrible intake to run unless your extremely good at tuning.
Ronnieroadster

Re: Intake x4
 

Ron, yes its a direct port but it was at a garage close to me, he had Tattersfield etc x4 but the others ’back then’, are they not also ’direct port’ ?

Re: Intake x4
 

The 416 car is Tim McMaster's race car and it runs Baron heads and a Tattersfield/Baron 4X2 intake that I mentioned earlier. The Tattersfield/Baron is a true 180 degree 4X2 intake. They made a high rise version of it as well. I have one of the high rise versions.

Re: Intake x4
 

Ron,
Those intake is that pre 1949 ?
I hear several version of x4 on the street.
Some say its all Ok on others its just issues.
The car I saw yesterday had a x4 Edelbrock ( do not know old or new or new or direct or semi direct ) but according NO problem.

Re: Intake x4
 

Well I think I will run inline x 4 now !
That feel great.
Both heads and intake are Burbank Calif, wonder if Schenk Bros and the Muli guy had a co works togheter ?

-Anyone has any info regards the Multi, please enlight.

Re: Intake x4
 

So, you convinced yourself again. Please let us know how well it works out for you this time.

Re: Intake x4
 

-Alchemy, no historic info on the Multi intake ?

But you are absolutely correct as one never know in my Hot-Rod build-up..

And as a example it took 6 front axles before I bought my Okie Adams in June in Los Angeles and so far I’m still Ok ( believe it not ) and I think that’s a progress itself !

-But how should one know without search, get it, look at it, feel it, travel, meet people, se cars, ask on forums etc ?
That’s my road, and I love it !
On intake, and I guess whatever you enjoy it or not as I guess you been reading…so I will here take the intake story again just to fresh you up some .-)
Well it did start on Arduns, the add a Italmeccanica blower ( both the small and big one ) but it was not my cup of tea, then I saw the L&S Racing heads and in that deal it was a E&S direct port intake.
I really like 4 carbs and low as I feel it look racy.
I might add I was also in Henry steel heads and a GMC 4 blower ( and a inline 180 degree crank ;- )
But I could not get the carbs/linkage to work as this heads has a extended water tubes.
I was into risers but carbs was to close to tubes so it was simple near impossible.
If no water tubes to this heads, they had not the cool factor.
At that time I saw James Hetfield’s Black Jack 32 roadster and they used this heads butthe logo on the guy in east coast that bought the castings at late 40’s from the Schenk Bros.
That roadster had a set of early Edelbrock Hi-Rise intake and generator was at std position.
At that time I had bought my Scintilla distributor and seller had only the 8BA lower shaft plus I had a hard time find a angle adapter.
So I decided go for the 8BA set-up.
The Vertex was a 1 year project itself ( it’s for sale now, se HAMB )
As I wanted a std ( 32 ) fan it was complicated ( plus unsafe )
I traded the direct port to a Hi-Rise PM7, but the seller on the direct port said that was a huge mistake as that intake is Very rare ( and expensive )
I felt direct back home that I did like the 'look' but maybe not on my engine.. cool look but not my cup of tea.
Anyway I got a early 6V generator and the tall 34 oil tube.
When the Scintilla came from Cirello and I had bought a aluminum cam cover I realized belt was into the distributor, so I asked Skip Henley on extend the pulleys out, but Ronsroadster said the only way is to go 8BA pumps here.
I was into change the belt by press it down by a pulley, but idea was not good.
At that time I started to see the application on the 2 carb Hi-Rise and actually I did not like the look ( to much prewar feeling ) and on my computer I had a background picture on flathead with a 2 carb set-up ( spreaded and low )
-I has seen that intake at a guy I know here.
The picture came from a Bell Auto catalog and they used a 42 generator on head and with stacks and a Kong distributor.
So I bought that Edelbrock Super intake and with the LZ carbs I got a Hellings air cleaners.
I did find a 42 generator and a passenger head mount but Bell Auto used it on driver side.
Then on distributor, a Kurten came up based on Lincoln V12, ( I always enjoyed Lincoln parts as I had transmission, brakes and rear wheels )
On this I has not set-up my mind and Ihas found a very nice Kong here in Sweden, but the Kurten is cool, I like it. Nice old Hot-Rod feeling.
So I called Skip in Florida and said I will go for the short pump.
I don’t like the 8BA set-up on a 59A engine, and my era is before 49 as well.
That’s why I sold my 4” Merc crank and rods and the Ross piston to.
My new 41 Merc ported block I bought at LARS is perfect for my set-up, so it will has a stroked 3.75 crank now, just to get it more complex..
So the LZ carbs on the Super intake and the Kurten and the 42 generator really felt great.
I traded in the Hellings air cleaner ( as I never did like em, to much street use ) to the Kurten.
But then… an idea from start really was a inline 4 carb set-up, but as I heard they was more into the 50’s ( but the Super was 40’s ) but then I saw that Multi intake and this thread was about x4 intake and now the Multi ( as I bought )
So now it feels really great !

-Will I change my mind, one never know, but enjoy the readings, youre worth it !

------

Again, historic info is welcome.

Re: Intake x4
 

Obviously, your whole project has been evolving - which is fine. I don't think I've ever started a complex project and it ended up as I was thinking at the start.

Question, do you happen to still have the big SCoT or Italmeccanica blower? Am pondering going this approach vs a 4-71.

Re: Intake x4
 

Yes, but in my case I started my hot-Rod ideas pratically from zero.
I had NO historical facts, and that is important for me.
That get it more complicated plus I practically build a std Henry 5W then adopt it to a Hot-Rod.
I never bought the 4-71 or the big SCoT.
If I get parts that I not like, it's for sale rather fast and my idea is get back what I payed and then the road is open.

-I hope I develop and I'm very thankful for ALL help.

Will I change parts yes but it start get a on a thinner line how I want this car.

Re: Intake x4
 

Converting the 59 engine to an 8BA is a good imprudent in reliability , and I go one step fartherI like to use the Offy 3 5/16 hyper pistons set at .001/,oo15 clearance. I wish they came with a better set of rings. I also use the EAB cam and ignition with a 2110 carb I use EAB heads and water pumps, just plug the holes, I also use the water pump pulley on the drivers side to run one belt. I do like the 2gc carb but the loadamatic distributor need that. I run a ault /12volt system/ Last but not least a Chevy Harmonic front pulley. No machanical fan or fuel pump thesr are e,ectrical. The 59 block has trans problems but the stock trans work well around town and the Merc OD boxex also worl for over the road operation. I know need to change the rear end as well. The finished products is worth the effort.
Gramps.

Re: Intake x4
 

Re: Intake x4
 

Ol’ Ron, I shore wish next time when I more wise ( read experiance ) get out of all this Henry stuff end the era ideas.
But now I’m on the dark side ( or what to call it..
A guy near me bilded a 1-800 all Taiwan 32 and went to south Europe and back at no fuzz.
and 250 pure China HP more than my FH ever will pound out and even aircond and automatic and tilt.
-Who can argue.
He once was at the dark side but said it was not worth it.

Me, now I super happy on my old x4 !

Re: Intake x4
 

I got the intake home today, and it will fit my style on this 5W 32 perfect.
I don't know if I will let Max do 2 more LZ or go with the 97'.

Note no room on a fuel pump, ideas on that ?

Re: Intake x4
 

Again, if anyone has information of this 'Multi' Burbank Ca made x4 intake, I would love that information.

Re: Intake x4
 

Take the fuel pump apart and "clock" the bottom part until it clears. I've never done a 4X2, so try the stand mounted backwards as well.

Re: Intake x4
 

Hank happy to see it made the journey safely.
Ronnieroadster

Re: Intake x4
 

I has the std 59A but no fuel pump for it, but I do has a early 34 tube and the early fuelpump.
I think I go with the glass style on this intake if I get it to fit.

Re: Intake x4
 

(4) 97s going to be more carburetion than you need, and this intake will be harder to tune since it has no common plenums. And, as the others have noted, due to the "overcarburetion" of the 97 (and LZ) you'd be better served by (4) 81 carburetors if you do indeed wind up going this 4x2 route.

I think, though, you'll find the Thickstun with a pair of 97s to be a superior setup in reality.

There's a reason why you don't see these 4x2 intakes on the street and why the 2x2 is far more common.

Re: Intake x4
 

I believe the late Walt DuPont ran an Edelbrock 4X2 with 97's on his street 276 motor. Ol' Ron rode in the car. From all reports, it started immediately and ran real well.

Re: Intake x4
 

You is shore correct, but my intake 'journey' has been a long story how I will see this car.
And the x4 is what I come up with and it started Ardun and blower and no blower to FH old school, then a 4 carb E&S intake.
Experiance later on is another story.
I do has the PM with dual LZ.
But this car is not a street rod.
Now the 4" crank is 1/8" stroked and the Potvin 425 cam.
My idea is run the mid carbs and full throttle all 4.
The runners is open up between back in the days.
No one now much about this intake or who made it, and racing good or bad.
In the end of each runners is a plug, maybe some had a line between ?
I know it will be to much carbs bit the 97 is smaller than the LZ and I has no ideas know get 4 smaller carbs.
Anyway, it shore is cool look at and it will be some time before I know how it went, but so far I'm pleased I find the set-up I like.
Now I need look over if a Kong Jackson or a Kuten LZ will, bit has the cool factors.

Re: Intake x4
 

I would ask Ronnie about your plan. From what I gather, the Multi intake is pretty much 8 single barrel runners with no common plenum. If you are only running off two carbs, you are starving the unfed cylinders which will lead to numerous issues.

Re: Intake x4
 

Hi Tim
All of the Multi intakes would work as you explained to Hank. But the one Hank now has was modified so there is a cross passage between the four pairs of intake runners on each side. With this modification its now two four cylinders so the balance is much easier to work with.
Ronnieroadster

Re: Intake x4
 

Tim, Yes you are correct.
Idea was from Ron but a tube between, plus this intake is not 8 single but 4 as its open up between ( old machine works )
No one knows history of this intake but we think it went Bonneville, no dragracing ( or streets.

Max idea was a x4 intake would run perfect ( 4 of Stromberg 97 ) as he made one set-up for Orosco that had a 286 and direct lincage.
Max had the settings, no problems.
He showed me picture of the set-up and its super nice !

Re: Intake x4
 

Ah, got it! Makes sense that you you figure out how to make it work.

Re: Intake x4
 

Sounds like a plan.

Re: Intake x4
 

Re: Intake x4
 

This coupe is more a ’plug’ than a street rod basic to use as much Henry and LA made speed parts I can find.
Most parts will be impossible for longer trips, so its for rew and small city use, and that was my plan for start.
Not a true race car, but a ’hot coupe’ street racer.
Culver City/Burbank asfalts style ( my way see it )

Re: Intake x4
 

I find my 2 extra LZ carbs so the Multi intake has now 4 restored carbs.
I don’t know if fuel lines will 4 separate from a Lug on firewall or the ’industrial way’, eith rubber hose, but I need banjo adaptors that has inlet for hose but end is plugged.
I seen oncle Max did that.
Stromberg parts ?
Or has anyone a x4 Lug. 40’s stuff, if so contact me.

Re: Intake x4
 

Appear 2 carbs have no choke shafts or butterflies. You probably know this but it hurts flow.