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Hydraulic Brakes went out! So I’m planning on a Route 66 journey later this fall in my 34 cabriolet so earlier this week I took a 300 mile trip to see how she would do! Car ran great- no complaints but my brakes pulled a little to the right by the end of the trip. I thought I just needed to adjust.
Yesterday I went to the car club breakfast and on my way home the brakes went to the floor with no stop- my emergency brake saved me and I limped home. Driver side cylinder is bad- I’m assuming it was leaking Tuesday which is why my car probably pulled when I was braking. Here are my questions- does anyone have a good vendor for parts. I’m still trying to totally determine if my hub is a 48 hub or a 34 or a 36 or whatever. I did get some seals to replace as my hubs didn’t have them… or the wire wheel spacers-which I have added. Thompson’s garage has a rebuild kit. But they have a 39-42 rebuild kit and a 46-48 kit- if you have any suggestion of which one to buy I’d appreciate it. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...3c125a61f7.jpg https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...5a6038f8ab.jpg https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...02eacb230f.jpg With all that in mind… I should probably update to a dual master cylinder to avoid ALL of the brakes going out next time… here is the current rig I have set up- any one know of a good version to replace it with? https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...a284077302.jpg I look forward to to your opinions- Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
Re: Hydraulic Brakes went out! Post other views of your hub.
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Re: Hydraulic Brakes went out! https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...4bf4e0bbc5.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...e18139dc68.jpg Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
Re: Hydraulic Brakes went out! Your drums are 46-48 so your hubs are also.Your backing plates are 39-42 as are the brakes.All are mounted on 32-34 spindles.You must have spacer rings to adapt all that to your spindles I presume. I would replace both front wheel cylinders if you can find quality ones. Rock Auto has the wheel cyl kits for a bit more than $4 if your cyls are rebuildable.
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Re: Hydraulic Brakes went out! As far as a vendor for parts my go to guy is Joe's Antique Auto
in Uxbridge, MA Joe's Antique Auto Parts (joesantiqueauto.com) Regarding a dual m/c there is this: https://carrillocustoms.com/collecti...ual-reservoirs Early ford 3 bolt master cylinder w/dual reservoirs |
Re: Hydraulic Brakes went out! Quote:
I do have the spacer rings- Thanks so much for your input I found a kit with new cyls, pads and all at Thompson’s- so I’ll give them a try. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
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That 3 bolt dual is interesting- thank you for that! Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
Re: Hydraulic Brakes went out! Buy the kits by wheel cylinder bore size.
The ones on my front looked like yours. They were 1 3/8" on the front, (the larger bore) off the later cars. (1946-48) If you buy new cylinders, My choice would be those. Karl |
Re: Hydraulic Brakes went out! Third gen has a new master cylinder with dual res that bolt to your existing 3 bolt set up .
Excellent, no modifications needed . Just have your front and backs routed to each part of the master |
Re: Hydraulic Brakes went out! Here on EBAY also the dual MC with the 3 bolt.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/125801461918 |
Re: Hydraulic Brakes went out! And for Henry Ford sake get some support rings on the hub surface before you put the wheels back on. I can see the contact spot on the outer edge of the hub but nothing on the inner. You will crack those wheels! Would be an awful shame to crack up the bent-spoke wires.
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Re: Hydraulic Brakes went out! I just looked at the link from deuce-lover and it has a smaller bore than stock, 1" versus 1-1/16". This will decrease pedal effort but stroke more toward the floor, than stock. With a loss of fluid on front or back, you may run out of stroke before you have brakes. If you go with this cylinder, make sure you have an absolute minimum free stroke before brakes are applied.
I changed my original master to a stepped bore type and am pleased with the change. It is a two bolt design though. https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showp...98&postcount=5 Glenn |
Re: Hydraulic Brakes went out! Soonersace: You said: "Driver side cylinder is bad- I’m assuming it was leaking Tuesday which is why my car probably pulled when I was braking."
When you removed the brake drum did you? see brake fluid leaking on the brake drum? Was your master cylinder low on brake fluid indicating a leak? Did it run dry? Did you check the other 3 wheels for wheel cylinder leaks? What DOT brake fluid are you using? Is your homemade master cylinder actuation linkage set up working as it should? First thing I suggest is to rebuild the leaking wheel cylinders. Let us know how you make out. |
Re: Hydraulic Brakes went out! If you have one bad wheel cylinder, you should consider refurbing the entire braking system. rebuild or replace the wheel and master cylinders and the brake hoses, flush and replace the brake fluid, and bleed the brakes.
One thing I never see mentioned is that DOT-3 and DOT-4 fluid have a finite life in service. Over time, they will pick up moisture and retain it. After it reaches a certain level, it will promote rust in the system. Several years ago, I purchased an electronic device for testing the moisture level in glycol-based fluid. I have found that it gets to a critical level somewhere between 5 and 15 years, depending on storage, climate, and other conditions. Anyone with over 15 years on their brake system should consider a flush and replace. (I know this from owning my '51 for 38 years.) I can't say about DOT-5 fluid, because I only managed to get it bled properly in one car. It seems to last longer though. I had it in a Corvette I sold after 25 years and the brakes seemed fine. I'll never really know, because I had no way to test it. |
Re: Hydraulic Brakes went out! Tubman, THANKS for that brake fluid life expectancy information.
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Re: Hydraulic Brakes went out! Saw you mentioned duel bowl Master cylinder, I studied doing that but you have stroke problems with the stock peddle travel. It is safer to have single bowl with good working emergency brake.
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Re: Hydraulic Brakes went out! Quote:
I would first suggest changing your brake apply system from the pedal pulling through the marginally efficient linkage design to the normal direct/straight push operation of the master cylinder by adding a lug to the bottom of the '34 pedal, as I did with the '34 pedals in my '32. Next consideration would be the much safer dual master conversion. |
Re: Hydraulic Brakes went out! That's a good idea. Present set up looks "iffy".
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Re: Hydraulic Brakes went out! Quote:
I bought and installed the rings before the 300 mile trip. So I got that covered! Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
Re: Hydraulic Brakes went out! Quote:
Where does one get this lug? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
Re: Hydraulic Brakes went out! 2 Attachment(s)
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One fabricates it from 1/4" steel and welds to the pedal. |
Re: Hydraulic Brakes went out! 1 Attachment(s)
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'62 CADDY reportedly (and possibly -'63-65) have a bore of 1-1/16", were used in the older days, and seem to be available. Coop . |
Re: Hydraulic Brakes went out! Quote:
Bob, not to be a complete idiot… but can you show me exactly what you welded, where… I got my brakes back finally. One of the brand new cylinders failed… anyway I installed the Dual master cylinder- now the brake pedal goes too far down. Almost all the way to the floorboard. I’m hoping to figure out a way to get them to engage sooner. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
Re: Hydraulic Brakes went out! The best thing you can do now is adjust all your brakes to take out all engagement slack. Your master cylinder bore may be too small but precise brake adjust will certainly help.
Glenn |
Re: Hydraulic Brakes went out! soonersace,
The above front picture of my pedals is the best one I could fine. The new angled 1/4" tab/lug/leg that pushes the M/C rod is welded to the lower portion of the pedal. Later '39-'48 brake pedals have this lower leg included as part of the pedal. |
Re: Hydraulic Brakes went out! 1 Attachment(s)
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https://fordbarn.com/forum/attachmen...1&d=1726358990 |
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Yup! Put those on last month! Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
Re: Hydraulic Brakes went out! Quote:
Thank you that helps! Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
Re: Hydraulic Brakes went out! Regarding, "'62 CADDY reportedly (and possibly -'63-65) have a bore of 1-1/16", were used in the older days, and seem to be available.
Coop" I just checked all years from '62 to '65 and they're all 1" bore. Glenn |
Re: Hydraulic Brakes went out! Quote:
So if I replace the master cylinder with the 62-65 caddy- that would at least shorten my stroke? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
Re: Hydraulic Brakes went out! No, it would make it worse since it appears that you have a 1939-1948 master cylinder now which has a 1-1/16" bore. Your current setup has a lot of lost motion I think.
This is the Ford 39-48 MC https://www.speedwaymotors.com/_next...jpg&w=640&q=75 |
Re: Hydraulic Brakes went out! If it were me I'd put a good stock original single master cylinder back in.
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Re: Hydraulic Brakes went out! Delete
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Re: Hydraulic Brakes went out! I had an ASE brake license, and some Ford specialized brake classes. I let that all expire when I retired. I agree with others, replace all the wheel cylinders or rebuild them if they are not pitted. There was a problem with the new flathead wheel cylinders being defective. Hopefully they have that straightened by now. I would be tempted to rebuild them rather than by new ones. At work they wouldn't let us buy new wheel cylinders; we rebuilt them all, even on the F-800s unless they were really pitted bad. Nothing wrong with rebuilding them.
There is nothing wrong with a single master cylinder if the brakes are maintained. You just need to check the fluid every once in a while, make sure the master cylinder and wheel cylinders are not starting to seep. They "do not" have sudden failures if they are maintained properly unless a snow chain broke and took a brake line off of a wheel cylinder. That did happen at work, but only once in 30-years. I flush them out and change the brake fluid every two-years. Modern Brakes have gotten so good these days that we don't check them until a light comes on the dash telling us it's time for brakes. It doesn't mean that old brakes are unsafe, they just need to be watched a little more carefully. If the linings got wet with brake fluid or grease it's almost impossible to get it out of the lining, even if you soak it in solvent, the surface will look clean but then once it used for a little bit that fluid will come up to the surface of the lining and the vehicle will start to pull to that side again or lock that wheel up. It does the opposite of what you expect. I've tried cleaning brake shoes at work and reusing them, but I gave up on that. Make sure your new shoes are fitted to the drums, so they make 100% contact. Make sure the drums on the same axle should be machined to within .010 of each other or it might pull to one side. Drum brakes are a little touchier than modern disc brakes when it comes to stopping straight. And don't forget, Early Ford Brakes have the longer shoe going towards the front, the opposite of every other car you've ever worked on. |
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