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1933 V8: Troubleshooting...suggestions welcome Dear Barners,
Most of the time I try to figure out by myself when I face problems but on this one... Some background: stock 1933 221ci - 6V positive ground - Stromberg 97 - stock dizzy (supplied by ThirdGen - less than 1000 miles on it). https://www.transferxl.com/download/08vzcSq5t3KcNC If you can't access the video on link above, the symptoms are that engine power is not coming when going full throttle. Above certain RPM it roars but without delivering power, just as if there was a limiter... Troubleshooting done so far: 1. Replaced fuel filter > problem still there 2. Carburetor inspected, cleaned, checked power jet OK At this stage the fuel supply issue was eliminated. 3. Played with dizzy adjustments like vacuum advance nut or ignition timing. This was probably a mistake because a. ThirdGen supplies them "ready and good to go" b. it's been working before without a miss c. I do not have the machine to setup dizzy. 4. Decided to swap dizzy with an identical unit (backup) also supplied by Michael. Problem still there. 5. I have good spark at coil Thanks in advance for your suggestions/opinions :) |
Re: 1933 V8: Troubleshooting...suggestions welcome 1 Attachment(s)
How is the clutch. The 97 accelerator linkage rod should be about 3.75" long. Make sure the adjustment for the power valve is correct, there may be a "Stromberg How To". When the foot pedal is depressed fully the Carb. throttle opens fully. The air cleaner is not restricting air flow, try removing it.
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Re: 1933 V8: Troubleshooting...suggestions welcome Blocked exhaust ? What is the vacuum gauge saying ?
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Re: 1933 V8: Troubleshooting...suggestions welcome Hi Terry,
Clutch was renewed 23/10. Has been operating satisfactorily since. Stromberg carburetor was entirely checked and operates OK. Tried removing air filter. DOes not solve issue. Thanks for your suggestions. |
Re: 1933 V8: Troubleshooting...suggestions welcome Hi Ggmac,
Exhaust was replaced with new 22/07. What additional test should I perform on it ? Unfortunately I do not have a vacuum gauge... Thanks for your suggestions. |
Re: 1933 V8: Troubleshooting...suggestions welcome don't know about a 97 but my 94 was not running right, took time to work it out it out, one of the two barrels of the carb was some what plugged up car ran and started but just was not right. Cleaned carb real good ran great, don't know where junk came from but it must have been the only piece .
kurt |
Re: 1933 V8: Troubleshooting...suggestions welcome Send the carb and fuel pump to Charlie Schwendler for thorough cleaning and upgrades to gaskets that are compatible to the lousy fuel.
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Re: 1933 V8: Troubleshooting...suggestions welcome Hi Kurt and Tim,
Thanks for the tips. I value your points. As stated earlier, carb was entirely cleaned and checked by a professional and deemed to be functional. No gasket leaks either... |
Re: 1933 V8: Troubleshooting...suggestions welcome that doesn't mean that it hasn't picked up a small piece of junk after carb was installed
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Re: 1933 V8: Troubleshooting...suggestions welcome Vacuum gauges are cheap , suggested you by or borrow one . It’ll tell you what’s happening by the needle, either steady and dropping or bouncing ( another issue)
Any weezing sounds along the exhaust route or enough exhaust coming out the tail pipe ? Have you hit anything or had it up on a lift . Mounting on a lift with some one not knowing how to set it up can do damage to tank or exhaust. |
Re: 1933 V8: Troubleshooting...suggestions welcome Make sure the linkage to the carb is adjusted so it's opening up all the way at wide open throttle.
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Re: 1933 V8: Troubleshooting...suggestions welcome Are you saying the engine will not pro0duce full RPM? If it runs smooth up to a point and will not go further, its going to be a minor problem. If that is the case, remove the throttle rod and manually open the throttle to see if you get more rpm. Did you get full rpm before these changes?
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Re: 1933 V8: Troubleshooting...suggestions welcome Hi Jim & other contributors,
Engine will not produce full RPM. On the road in 3rd gear it will not go beyond 45 mph. A month ago I could reach 65. This issue has not surfaced overnight though. Carburetor operation was checked and cleaned thoroughly. Air filter removed, rods disconnected... The link provided above allows download of a file in zip container. Open container and you'll find a short video that illustrates the issue... No suspicious sounds from the exhaust. Car not lifted before the issue arose. I'll try to find a vacuum gauge in the meantime. Thanks guys for your help. |
Re: 1933 V8: Troubleshooting...suggestions welcome Are you using older fuel lines with the new gas ?
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Re: 1933 V8: Troubleshooting...suggestions welcome Like kurt v said above, I too suspect the carburetor (even though it has been gone through by a pro). The symptoms you describe and the video, it sounds like it's running on just four cylinders. I had a Stromberg 97 in my '37 that did what you are experiencing...
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Re: 1933 V8: Troubleshooting...suggestions welcome Thanks for more suggestions. Tomorrow we will perform test to bypass tank & fuel pump and recheck carb.
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Re: 1933 V8: Troubleshooting...suggestions welcome Check timing and firing order. I cant see the video, but based on what petehoovie said, if it is only running on four cylinders.....
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Re: 1933 V8: Troubleshooting...suggestions welcome Put a vacuum gauge on that engine.It will give you a good idea what is wrong.
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Re: 1933 V8: Troubleshooting...suggestions welcome Kurt v asked a good question. Have you changed the flex line to the fuel pump? If it's an old line it may have cracks in it or the line inside may be coming loose.
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Re: 1933 V8: Troubleshooting...suggestions welcome Hi Gentlemen,
Thanks for your contributions. It really helps to progress. As far as fuel line and associated components are concerned, all were checked/renewed as necessary in 2021: lines from tank, fuel pump restored to original (with components from Joe's Antique), carburetor opened (parts checked and cleaned) and tested OK. Later today I will make a test to bypass fuel pump... |
Re: 1933 V8: Troubleshooting...suggestions welcome Quote:
Hi, Here's the link to download file that contains video of the vacuum gauge test. https://www.transferxl.com/fr/download/08jqnYD9X9dXrz In short: 17 in HG stable at idle 5-25 in HG when open/close throttle Any expert opinion ? |
Re: 1933 V8: Troubleshooting...suggestions welcome |
Re: 1933 V8: Troubleshooting...suggestions welcome Buy, beg or borrow a different carburetor from a good running engine. Take you ten minutes to change it out.
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Re: 1933 V8: Troubleshooting...suggestions welcome Do you know if the distributor done by us was converted to the later (37-48) points or is original points (32-36).
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Re: 1933 V8: Troubleshooting...suggestions welcome Hi Michael,
Thanks for popping in. You actually supplied me with two distributors: 1. Original points 32-36 2. One converted to later points As stated above dizzy #1 was used until recently and gave total satisfaction. Upon inspection (after troubleshooting fuel supply) we discovered the hex nut thats locks the advance brake system was loose. we tightened it hoping it was the cause of the problem. But it was not. We then played (and it was a mistake) with the settings. In oder to continue the troubleshooting and because we did "play" with dizzy#1 we decided to install dizzy #2 in the car. Symptom still there ;-( We then tested the engine with a vacuum gauge (reported above) without finding a cause. Planning to test the fuel pump over the coming days. If no luck at that stage we will plan to install a new condenser (you supplied one to me). I have ordered locally a Pertronix coil (#40011) to rule out the current Beru ZS105 in the car. Last will be to renew the ignition wires. What else could it be then ? As a side question: without the setting machine, is there a way to restore settings of dizzy #1 to nominal values ? Take good care. |
Re: 1933 V8: Troubleshooting...suggestions welcome If you try the 40011 coil, you will need to bypass the ignition resistor under the dash.
As for Dizzy#1 the vacuum brake has little to no affect with today's fuels and personally I run the line for looks but block it off. Set the timing adjust back to the middle and you should be swell. You need to have 3.9-4.6 Volts at the coil. Your issue sounds ironically like point float which is why I chimed in, but if both Dizzy's give the same results likely that is not it. HIGHLY doubtful but weak or broken valve spring can cause the same issue. If you pull the choke slightly when acting up does it get better or worse? |
Re: 1933 V8: Troubleshooting...suggestions welcome This is just a wild guess but, could the little flexible fuel line on the firewall between the gas line and the carb be faulty?
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Re: 1933 V8: Troubleshooting...suggestions welcome As I understand it, the engine runs fine up to a given rpm, smooth, no misses, no popping. The sound on that video also bears that out. Something, carb gasket, throttle linkage is limiting how much throttle the engine can get.
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Re: 1933 V8: Troubleshooting...suggestions welcome To reset the distributor vacuum brake adjustment: Screw the adjustment screw out until it starts to bind, then screw it in about 1-1/2 turns and lock it down with the nut.
The 97 has an adjustment for where the power valve opens during throttle opening movement. The power valve should start to open with the throttle plates are 0.315" open and the accelerator link in the "S" position. |
Re: 1933 V8: Troubleshooting...suggestions welcome Quote:
Hi Terry, Thanks for the tips on dizzy and carb. Have fitted a brand new dizzy from 3rd Gen. Still have the problem. Carb operation was verified twice (rods disconnected, etc). Still looking for cause... |
Re: 1933 V8: Troubleshooting...suggestions welcome Quote:
Thanks for the information. Will report back here when I get new coil. Quote:
Thank you for your help |
Re: 1933 V8: Troubleshooting...suggestions welcome Quote:
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Re: 1933 V8: Troubleshooting...suggestions welcome Stuck cutout
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Re: 1933 V8: Troubleshooting...suggestions welcome 17 is not as good as you think. Try adjusting the two brass idle adjustment mixture screws slowly, one at a time, to get in as close to 20 or higher at idle with the engine warmed up. Do adjustments with vacuum gauge attached look for the smoothest idle and steady vacuum. This will not fix your problem with high speed. It is an idle adjustment. At high speed the carburetor uses different internal passages than the idle.
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Re: 1933 V8: Troubleshooting...suggestions welcome It is possible that the pickup tube in the gas tank is obstructed from bad gas/debris/sludge from gas tank sealer, etc. It’s a real pain to remove the tank and run a small long drill rod down through the intake tube but that is what was wrong with my 36 ….
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Re: 1933 V8: Troubleshooting...suggestions welcome Was your gas tank cleaned and then lined with the sealant ? I’ve seen that sealant start to separate and have long flaps that are still attached to the inside of the tank but could obstruct the pickup line .
With a blocked exhaust, the vacuum needle will progressively drop until your motor dies . |
Re: 1933 V8: Troubleshooting...suggestions welcome Hang a coke bottle with gas from the sun shade sipion some gas down direct to carb ,use a windscreen washer hose ,Fix a jump wire from battery neg direct to coil with alligator clips if you like .Road test this will eliminate pump, tank ,dash wiring ,resister , switch issues ,make sure you don't have gas leaks ,Ted
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Re: 1933 V8: Troubleshooting...suggestions welcome Also, even with a crook fuel supply or problems, the engine should rev to buggery with it in neutral. that needs to be clarified ,
or just not under load. Lawrie |
Re: 1933 V8: Troubleshooting...suggestions welcome Thanks to all for suggestions.
As of today we are finishing the renewal of ignition wires. Unsure this will cure the problem but this was overdue anyway. What we are planning to do: 1. Test with a new coil 2. Test with a new condenser 3. Test with bypass of fuel pump/tank (e.g. secondary tank direct to carb) Thanks again for your support into this tricky problem. Will also recheck with vac gauge hooked up and tune as per Terry's suggestion. |
Re: 1933 V8: Troubleshooting...suggestions welcome Dear fellow barners.
Outcome of tests is not positive. Symptom identical after tests were completed in sequence: 1. new coil (Pertronix 40011) - problem still exists 2. new condenser (supplied by ThirdGen) - problem still exists 3. hooked up a gas tank direct to carb, fuel pump output to small outside tank: problem still exists. fuel pump output was checked ± 500ml (1pt) over 30 sec @700 rpm Gradually getting desperate and will be reading your suggestions with great interest ;-) |
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