early Ford V8 flathead motor catalytic converter?
 

early Ford V8 flathead motor catalytic converter?

Has this been considered by anyone or any company to make?

Just simply a question. Thank You -

Re: early Ford V8 flathead motor catalytic converter?
 

Why?

Re: early Ford V8 flathead motor catalytic converter?
 

I doubt it. I think sales numbers might be disappointing.

Re: early Ford V8 flathead motor catalytic converter?
 

highbeams: We don't need more restrictions and regulations.

Re: early Ford V8 flathead motor catalytic converter?
 

On the other hand, IF more restrictions are placed on our old Fords, a catalytic converter may be the easiest and most reasonable method to get within whatever standards may be applied.
A converter typically does the most to reduce emissions of any of the numerous systems on our modern vehicles.
The problem I see applying one to our old Ford is not the fit. Heck, any "generic" converter could be made to fit rather easily. Nope, what I see as the major issue is how long the life of the converter would be.
Our Fords are not very efficient and as such no doubt pump out a lot of "yech" through the exhaust. That "yech" would quickly clog a converter.
Ever near a car that smelled like rotten eggs? That's too much unburned fuel getting to the converter. That in itself is a clear sign that particular vehicle is running poorly. Subsequently, the converter "fills up" and fails prematurely.

Re: early Ford V8 flathead motor catalytic converter?
 

better insulate a bunch as cat cons generate a ton if heat.

Re: early Ford V8 flathead motor catalytic converter?
 

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Re: early Ford V8 flathead motor catalytic converter?
 

The catalytic converter works by enabling hydrocarbons to burn at a dramatically lower mixture (air + fuel) than what they would normally burn at. They are often some alloy of platinum in a ceramic (high temperature tolerant) matrix. "Flooding" does not seem to damage converters, however it will take time to burn out excess fuel, which causes heat, which must be dissipated safely. The converter also has to reach a certain temperature (400F?) to begin operating.



What will KILL a converter is heavy metals... especially lead.


The "rotten egg" smell. Yes to incomplete combustion, but a required component to get the smell is sulfur. Various sulfur oxides STINK! And contribute to ground level ozone. This is one of the reasons that regulators (EPA) are demanding "low sulfur" fuels. Ironically this is why we import oil from the middle east (naturally low sulfur) and export oil from Alaska to Asia (naturally high sulfur, and lower regulatory limits).



IIRC from the discussions when EPA rules started to come out that stock flatheads could be tuned to run quite clean. Compared to 60's OHV the flatheads relatively long stroke to small bore allows extra burn time for a more complete combustion of hydrocarbons, and relatively low compression reduces the formation of nitrous oxides (nitrogen is ~80% of air).

Re: early Ford V8 flathead motor catalytic converter?
 

Thank you Karl, excellent info.

Re: early Ford V8 flathead motor catalytic converter?
 

Thank you Karl! :)

Re: early Ford V8 flathead motor catalytic converter?
 

"If it ain't broke don't fix it". Why would you want to give the government another reason to meddle into our lives and our love of old cars.

Re: early Ford V8 flathead motor catalytic converter?
 

Remember what President Reagan said: "I'm from the government and here to help you."

Re: early Ford V8 flathead motor catalytic converter?
 

I hope no one from the NYS DMV is reading this.

Re: early Ford V8 flathead motor catalytic converter?
 

Not to worry, it's their break time.

Re: early Ford V8 flathead motor catalytic converter?
 

I ran our 33 through an emissions tester that was set up on the uphill exit ramp from the motor way a few years back, I went back and spoke to the guy who was setting it up after I had driven through,, he asked what sort of anti pollution stuff was on the 33 engine,I replied none, he response was,:thats surprisingly clean :
Lawrie

Re: early Ford V8 flathead motor catalytic converter?
 

I had a similar experience with the 8BA engine in my old '36. The engine was a fresh 276 Merc with a Holley 390 and an MSD "Ready to Run" ignition. When I took it to "Back to the Fifties" in the middle nineties, the State of Minnesota had a voluntary pollution test set up right in the event. Out of curiosity, I ran the car through and they told me it would have passed the then current Minnesota pollution standards as it was.

Re: early Ford V8 flathead motor catalytic converter?
 

That's both a surprise and very interesting. Thanks for sharing :)

Re: early Ford V8 flathead motor catalytic converter?
 

Ran my '28 "A" through the smog machine at my Porsche mechanic's place, was a little rich so closed down the GAV on the dash & it came in legal. He was amazed I could adjust the carburetor from the drive's seat!

Re: early Ford V8 flathead motor catalytic converter?
 

This all reminds me of the Old Street Cars/City Bus story out in Los Angeles. They got rid of all the "old" street cars (that where "electiric" and environmentally friendly as we are told today about EV's) for diesel burning Buses (Thank you GM). THEN, years later the "smog" became TOO great AND the buses weren't being utilized as they didn't serve the needs of the riders....SO they go to "clean" energy buses (electric among them) and propose NEW better service routes AND when "someone" checked these NEW routes against the "OLD" street car service, the old track system overlaid the NEW improved system "perfectly". SO.....what was gained in the end......SHOULD have left well enough alone!!!!!!

Re: early Ford V8 flathead motor catalytic converter?
 

As I hear it, GM used bribery and shady politics to push municipalities to convert to buses after the war. Check out a guy named "Fred Ossanna" who was behind it in Minneapolis.

Re: early Ford V8 flathead motor catalytic converter?
 

At the risk of topic shift...


There is of course way more to the story about replacing street cars than simple chicanery of GM and Firestone.



The Pacific Electric streetcars system was suffering numerous woes. The system was wearing out and due to regulation of fares there was not enough income to re-invest in the system. The streetcars shared the public roads and automobile traffic congestion then resulted in horrible service due to "trapped" streetcars, which drove potential customers away. Increasing costs of labor, again with fare adjustment difficult (Track and electric system maintenance had to be paid by the company, not with expenses of street maintenance hidden in the city tax budget as could be done with buses).


Replacing the system with buses appeared "cheaper" than fixing the system and raising fares to a sustainable level. The consequences of quality of ride diminishing was not recognized or acknowledged.


GM did purchase other streetcar systems which they did keep running for some time, and out and out purchased and scrapped others. It was all done with classic GM bean counting strategic decision making.

Re: early Ford V8 flathead motor catalytic converter?
 

When I started work they had a whole fleet of battery fork trucks. EPA standards said the fumes from charging batteries was bad. Company switched to propane trucks and that was ok. Now they are switching back to electric and that's supposed to be ok now? This is enclosed buildings and the early truck batteries were charged in 2 plant areas with ventilation to outside, new trucks have chargers everywhere.

Re: early Ford V8 flathead motor catalytic converter?
 

Back to the convertors discussion.


First. Government can't apply laws backwards and require emissions control equipment be added to cars built before emissions controls were required. Why? Ex post facto. Long established legal rule.


Second. Adding a modern catalytic (or two if twice piped) to an older engine will make it's emissions cleaner. Combined with a correctly operating PCV system and proper tuning you would have better fuel economy and less smelly exhaust. That's a win-win. Reduced emissions benefit everyone, young and old. Besides...modern cats do not cost much power. Maybe 3hp. Put it's a personal choice in the end.


A three way catalytic convertor in 1-3/4" pipe size costs about $100 bucks a piece.

Re: early Ford V8 flathead motor catalytic converter?
 

Battery technology changes. Modern sealed batteries are very different animals. You can't compare apples to oranges and make meaningful comparisons.

Re: early Ford V8 flathead motor catalytic converter?
 

If it ain't broke don't fix it!!!! :D

Re: early Ford V8 flathead motor catalytic converter?
 

Reminds me of something I heard back in the last century when the mandated emission devices were now on all new vehicles. Its a simple thing.

Its simple thing for those who care. The solution to pollution is dilution.
Simply add an a smog air pump to the exhaust belt driven or electric powered pump. The added air flow dilutes the exhaust gases cleaning them up with the added air injecting. Very simple and very effective.
Ronnieroadster