My First A - 1931 S/W Fordor
 

(In case you didn't see the last thread, this is the brief intro and photo thread of my first A just brought back yesterday)

I'm John, a 21 year old who has always wanted an A. I have looked for years for a nice one that hasnt been hacked and wasnt rotted out. I have looked at a few over the past years, such as a rotted out tudor, but nothing ever caught my eye. I did not want a car that had a shiny hacked paint job, if I bought one I wanted it done right. I also wanted something rust free, which is impossible to find in NH. After seeing the progress with Terry Burtz new engine, I tried finding one with one installed, but it seems like nobody wants to give one up just yet.

Last week, I happened to browse craigslist and found a decent looking A, located in NH (which turned out to be a mistake, it was in Maine) for $8,000. Some of you may have also seen it. I went there soon after to check it out.

Long story short: I got it yesterday. The seller got it a year ago and has no history from it. It's very odd... There is really no rust. To those of you in California or out west, maybe its rust to you, but to us with snow, this would be considered rust free almost. Yeah, there is some surface rust here and there, but as you will see in the photos, the area where the rear fender bolts to the body for example has very clean, straight lines with no roughness. This thing looks better than cars that are 5 years old up here. The muffler/exhaust is oddly clean... is it original or a replacement? You will see the roof has chipping paint, and its SHINY STEEL with light surface rust spots from me washing it.

I think the photos speak for themselves. I wanted to upload them here, but I don't want to post pixelated photos, so I uploaded them to Google Drive. Just click this link to access: https://drive.google.com/drive/folde..._KlPq-B-j1VmSO

My goal was originally to do a full restoration.
-New paint everywhere, chassis and body
-New Burtz engine (good cam, 6:1 head, dual downdraft carbs), Mitchell trans, BW radiator
-All new mechanical brakes
-All new electrical
-All new interior
-Have all the woodgrained painted trim redone
-All chrome replated
-Rebuilt axles and new springs
etc

I am kind of undecided now though. I see many have cars that have less than half the original paint remaining, and the rest is rust, and they call it patina. But this one has all original paint I think, complete with the worn apple green pin stripes. I'm really not sure what to do now. To me, the paint is almost too good to sand and paint over, but there are spots like the passenger door which are totally worn. The roof metal sides and back have most of the paint cracking off in sheets, I dont really know why, maybe it was under a tarp? At a minimum, any cracked or spotty paint areas will get painted.

This is a true deluxe. It has one sun visor on the drivers side. It has a passenger side kick panel pocket. It has a pocket on the back of the front seat with a rope, and pull ropes by the doors. It has a cowl band and lights. Green mohair(?) with apple green pinstriping. It looks completely original except for a modern fuel filter someone installed, and the period correct heater which will be restored. Two blade steel fan. Briggs body tag. I believe this is an early 31 slant window, and I think the engine is totally original and the serial number puts it at December 1930. There is a sticker indicating Shell changed the oil at 34000 miles... the odometer reads 45000. Is that a lot for one of these?

The wood in the roof from what little I can see is in perfect shape, as if it was built yesterday. The wood is painted black and is super solid, like new. Heck, even the body blocks (?) underneath are practically new. Really weird to see a Maine car look this good. The floor pan under the drivers seat has all the paint and tools! All four fenders are steel with zero rust. Even the toothed edges of the fenders are present and look new. No rips in any fender!

Some questions for those who made it this far:
1. I was annoyed to discover an odd dent on the rear pass door. It looks like the door whipped open and bent/dented the area by the hinge. Opinions on how difficult of a time a body guy will have fixing it?
2. The drivers front fender is the worst. It has a slight twisted area, and multiple dents. Can a shop fix it?
3. I see the original red primer in spots. But why are there areas with a green tint?
4. PLEASE tell me the front seat is all the way forward. Its stuck and wont move. There are only like 5 or 6 inches for you to get your foot through the door between the seat and door frame.

And the big question... What are your opinions on the exterior paint? I know its only original once, but is this truly good enough to leave? I lightly waxed some areas to see if the paint would clean up. It kind of does but still has that spotted finish. The rear fenders have small dimples, I would guess the paint is releasing from the primer. I'd like a nice and shiny paint job, but I don't want to destroy an original paint job if you all think its too nice.

Re: My First A - 1931 S/W Fordor
 

best advice- you should do what you want to do.


Its your car.

Re: My First A - 1931 S/W Fordor
 

I can't see those pictures unless I sign up to something.

Re: My First A - 1931 S/W Fordor
 

Try it again, sorry, I had the wrong setting on. It should work now.

Uploaded a few more pictures. Still has spots of original frame paint.

Re: My First A - 1931 S/W Fordor
 

I would start by checking all the mechanical and electric systems and leave the bodywork alone until everything else is done. I would see what could be done to protect the paint. Then I’d drive it for a year to get a feeling of how I like it.
My ‘31 Deluxe Roadster was restored 65 years ago. It runs pretty well but looks rough. Heck, one of the wheels is painted and doesn’t quite match the other three which are powder coated! And yet no one seems to care. Everyone is knocked out to see a Model A. Compared to other As it’s shabby. But so what?
Ultimately you should please yourself. The hobby has no lack of opinions and egos, and yours is as valid as everyone else’s.
I guess if I didn’t have a strong need to make it perfect I’d let it be.

Re: My First A - 1931 S/W Fordor
 

David’s advice is solid
Don’t even think of any major disassembly until you check all that has been said herein.

Re: My First A - 1931 S/W Fordor
 

You found what looks to be a great car at a great price. Have fun with it!

Re: My First A - 1931 S/W Fordor
 

I think it is beyond being in the survivor's class, so go ahead and restore it.

To move the seat back, that I assume has a threaded shaft and nut, take the assembly apart, clean up everything, and grease the shaft and nut. If needed use the Timesaver for steel parts to loosen up the nut on the shaft. Clean up the sliders on the sides of the seat and grease them. Look for one or more screws that are keeping the seat from moving. Some people do that so it does not move on them, especially if missing the nut or other parts.

Re: My First A - 1931 S/W Fordor
 

I'm happy to hear you agree, and it seems nobody would be upset with a repaint, if I do choose to do so in the near future. It's borderline okay, but a tad too gone. I'll keep that in mind for when I get around to the seat, thanks.

Re: My First A - 1931 S/W Fordor
 

Hello, Nice find , the 1931 S/W are my favorite closed car, if I ever got another Model A , that’s what I would look for. As mentioned in other posts, check out the mechanics, but don’t take to much apart at the same time, I have seen too many cars dismantled and never get back together. Once you have made sure it’s roadworthy, drive it ! I agree with post 5 seems rare to see many Model A s at shows anymore, mostly 1960,s and up or rods. Bought my first Model A when I was 18 a 1930 Coupe, have a 31 roadster now, turned 71 this August. Good luck and have fun.

Re: My First A - 1931 S/W Fordor
 

IMHO -- check your fuel tank. Get it clean and free of any rust or debris before you do anything else. If you don't do this--no matter how well you mechanically restore the "A," you will forever be chasing problems in your fuel system. Fuel is one of the key elements: 1) Fuel 2) Spark 3) Air -- without those three being reliable, you will be miserable and sitting far more than driving.

Once you have that -- work through the mechanicals on the car one at a time. Learn the car and how to handle it. Learn how to time it, troubleshoot ignition, etc... Once you learn these things you will be able to have peace of mind to "keep 'er running and get you home" in most cases. That's where the enjoyment comes.

The shiniest, most beautiful "A" that isn't reliable is a P.I.T.A. to its owner.

And all of this is, of course, my opinion here, for what it is worth.

Re: My First A - 1931 S/W Fordor
 

WOW!!!

What a great car.

You do not see unrestored Model A's in this condition very often.

I would get it running, clean it up, put some blankets over the seats to protect them and enjoy it for a while before I would get all involved in major restoration work.

First, I would change the fan. It appears to be an original steel 2 blade, and these are notorious for cracking and throwing a blade. I would replace it with a reproduction 2 blade aluminum fan.

Get the fuel system cleaned out and if the engine is not stuck, it should run.

This is about the most complete unrestored Model A I have ever seen with all the original tools under the front seat.

I would suggest you do not use any wax on the car. If you want to do some interim paint touch up, wax can cause problems. I would just use some rubbing compound and polish.

Go slow and take your time. You have a great car.

My opinion,

Chris W.

Re: My First A - 1931 S/W Fordor
 

I have worked on substantially every body style but not for every year
The slant fordor is the best Model A, structurally and ride.
Many early design and features foretelling the V8’s.

Re: My First A - 1931 S/W Fordor
 

If yours is an early slant the fuel shut off will be inside under the tank. In spring of 31, they switched to the indented firewall with the fuel shut off under the hood on the passenger side.
Enjoy the car.

Re: My First A - 1931 S/W Fordor
 

Hi, that is a very well preserved original car. The right kind of approach to preserving the paint, the upholstery, any part of it is very important. Don't take this the wrong way bbut I would slow down for bit now that you have it. There is a lot to learn about these cars. At 90 years out the unrestored cars are harder and harder to find. A mechanically restored model A with preserved paint and interior is way more interesting than the hundreds of fancy cars. If you want a fancy restored car just buy one they are everywhere. Go to a show see how many folks flock around the unrestored cars.someone said it is your car do what you want. That is true but clearly somewhat selfish and short sighted in the big picture. I am on cape ann, if you are in N.H. you could come down and I can give you show and tell on a unrestored 29 briggs and show you how good it can be. I would suggest looking at Paul shinn videos and get some of the recommended dry wash. It dies work great

Re: My First A - 1931 S/W Fordor
 

I didn't even notice, there IS a valve under the tank inside. Is that the shutoff? The firewall is flat and it has a sediment bulb(?) With a fuel line going to the carb.

Re: My First A - 1931 S/W Fordor
 

Yes that is the fuel shutoff. It is in the off position.

First of of I must say that it is wonderful to see that a 20 year old is going to continue the Model A legacy after us old timers are gone. Keep it going. I am impressed with your tenacity of what you intend to do.

It is a great find at a good price AND it has a real heater.

As far as what the mileage curranty reads. You can never reliably count on that mileage. How many times was that speedometer changed, how many miles was it driven with a broken speedometer cable, how many engine changes did it have?

It is your car, restore it, or not, is your decision. Just enjoy it.

Re: My First A - 1931 S/W Fordor
 

True on the milage on the speedo, broken cables were common as the car aged.BUT, I notice the oil change stickers on the door jamb. Those will tell a lot. Mine say 46k in in 1966 which matched perfectly with the filthy condition of the car, just the way I like them. I have offered the O.P. with one on one help. I cannot do any more than that! I have had model As for 60 years and know some stuff!

Re: My First A - 1931 S/W Fordor
 

the center pouch on the back of the front seat indicates an early production slant.

In addition to all the good advice above, try to get access to a vehicle lift so you can stabilize the surface rust underneath with Ospho & Rustoleum satin black.

Before driving too much, drop the oil pan and clean it out.
There is an excellent protocol in an old MARC or MAFCA magazine regarding leak-free installation of pan gaskets. (I'm out of state right now so can't look it up, maybe someone else here can give you the specific reference)

Join your nearest Model A club and find a mentor or 2.
This car is much too nice to restore.....

Re: My First A - 1931 S/W Fordor
 

NH-A This car of yours is a great start getting into this hobby! Everything looks so VERY sound!

I have two questions concerning the back of the front seat, mainly the pouch. I'm sure the pouch is for a blanket and would like to know if you could take a picture of it with the flap UP so we can see how it is constructed? Do you have a blanket in the pouch?

Good luck with your NEW acquisition!

Re: My First A - 1931 S/W Fordor
 

Yes, I can get that later today. Is there anything else you need photos of? No blanket, only a box of headlight bulbs.

The underside and firewall of the car WILL be painted, I plan on using this as a daily driver and want it nice and protected. The interior will be replaced, the photos make it look nice but the front seat has significant loss of the mohair(?) from moths or something in guessing? The front door panels are okay but worn, the rear door panels are okay, headliner is ripped, and the various interior hard panels are in okay shape but very dry feeling, and some are warped. I like to save things, so the interior will be put away for storage since it might be good for patterns? The wood graining is present but not sure how to describe it. Maybe dry and porous feeling? I think it's supposed to be hard and glossy, and it's very soft and dull. Looking into hydrodipping it all, I have an email to a known good woodgrainer but I have a feeling it's going to be thousands to have it done that way. AKA the interior feels kind of musty and almost gross as is, it's definitely good for knowing how it was built but usability is not there, I would not want to be driving it as is.

As for the body, still undecided. Keep providing your opinions, I find them very helpful! The bare minimum the exterior would need is the entire roof repainted, the header repainted, and the front drivers fender touched up. I'm not sure if that means the original paint is too far gone or if that's expected. The only fear I have with the original paint is how well it will protect the metal, unless every single scrape and chip gets touched up, and at that point, it's easier to paint the whole thing.

If it matters, if I were to repaint, it would be in single stage black in the factory style with apple green stripes.

Re: My First A - 1931 S/W Fordor
 

Updates: Won't have time to start working on it until December, but in the meantime, I've been using a method I read about on here. I've been applying wax to various spots over and over to build up layers. It seems to have brought back the dash wood grain.
https://i.imgur.com/CLTYaO0.jpg

I noticed something very strange about this car. This car was definitely originally black, as it is now. The door jambs are dark green...
https://i.imgur.com/qUEWGhd.jpg

It appears this car was first shot in green, then black was a second coat with all the doors closed, explaining the clean line? Does someone know what's going on here?

Re: My First A - 1931 S/W Fordor
 

What makes you think that the paint job is original?

Based off the green door jambs, I'd say it was probably originally green

Re: My First A - 1931 S/W Fordor
 

You know what, I think you're on to something. I noticed some black on the cowl band, however despite all this, the apple green pinstriping is present. That got me thinking, the door jambs I think would have been painted the lower body color, right? So if the pinstriping is present on the hood, the cowl, and the upper body, the only possible explanation is that someone carefully painted the green black, but left any black unpainted. This means the stripe on the hood is original, because that raised band with the stripe would have been black. The upper body is black with striping because it was black, and wasn't painted. The lower body was painted over. I'll have to look closer now. So it's a partial repaint.

I think that green is Brewster green? So the car would have been black upper body, brewster green lower body and jambs, green cowl and hood with black raised areas, apple green pinstripes.

Re: My First A - 1931 S/W Fordor
 

You could get a better idea of the color by looking at the space between back of the firewall and the fuel tank!

Re: My First A - 1931 S/W Fordor
 

I'm not an expert in Model A paint. But if it that is Brewster Green then according to MAFCA, then yes the upper body would have been black.

https://www.mafca.com/tqa/p-colors3031.html

You never know what the guy before you did, or the guy before him, or so on and so forth. Its possible somebody tried to save a buck and decided to only paint the lower half

Re: My First A - 1931 S/W Fordor
 

You picked a good one, I have a late modal with the indented firewall.
Congrat's and have fun
Pic below is my '31...daily driver

Re: My First A - 1931 S/W Fordor
 

Looks nice! I love the look of the 30s and 31s.

---

Fordbarn is right once again. My car was definitely Brewster green and black on top. I've ordered the judging guidelines and paint books to assist the restoration progress. Now I won't feel bad about repainting it, I'll redo it exactly as it left the factory. The gas tank dash area looked black, but upon polishing and shining a very bright flashlight, it's a super dark green, which sounds like brewster. How lucky e am I, that was the exact color combo I wanted!

Re: My First A - 1931 S/W Fordor
 

You have a beautiful car and it is yours to do as you please!

For me, I could have taken more time before committing to changes. I switched the trunk on my 1929 Roadster into a rumble seat and have kicked myself ever since. Most Roadsters have rumble seats and I had a chance at something more rare if I left it alone. It would also be more convenient for my junk collecting, having a trunk lower to the ground.

I won't embarrass myself by mentioning my other decisions. What I am getting at, it is only original once. I for one, love to see these cars for what they are, time capsules for the most part for everyone to learn from. There is minimal work to make it roadworthy, Mostly clean and perverse.

After a few years of having fun and sharing it with the world, you might decide a different fate. Reading your posts, it sure seems like you love it and enjoy sharing it with us posters from internet land! How much more can be gained by showing up at a meet and having lots of knowledgeable Model A men at your disposal.

The car is yours, and people will enjoy it no matter what you do.

For possible future consideration, I mention the hubcap behind the seat along with one I see on the car. Those two have the squashed outer rim on them. When I bought my 1930 standard Sedan in 1967 those were the caps. Thought to be reproductions, they were finally accepted as original to Canadian Cars this year. Discussions for use on US cars still undetermined. If they become available, I will buy them or trade for ones without the rim.

Thank you for sharing your story and enjoy the car, your way!

Re: My First A - 1931 S/W Fordor
 

Original and Model A are terms that generally do not go together. Unless you can document entire ownership chain and the story as to why it has escaped restoration for 90+ years it's a guess at best. See if there is a MAFCA or MARC judge near you who knows the details between original and even very good restoration parts.

I'd say it's a repaint due to the thickness of the peeling paint on the top - https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/fi...-w320-h200-p-k - it appears there was a thin skim coat to level out the area and like all of those products from the 60-90s it has failed an peeled off.

Remember NO ONE knows exactly how a car left the factory (except one of those very rare unrestored ones) so build it the way you want it.

Re: My First A - 1931 S/W Fordor
 

Thank you very much for your post. I completely agree. I've read factory paint should not flake like that, and it had me wondering. So, starting at the bottom: wheels are not original apple green (deluxe models had painted wheels (?)), fenders repainted, lower body painted black over original green, beltline original black with green stripe, upper body original black with green stripe, roof area repainted black and blended to original side black paint. AKA, nothing worth saving anymore.

This A intrigued me because the fact it's relatively unmolested (besides a repaint, as I now know), rot free, and very complete, and I'm glad a possible restoration won't destroy any originality worth saving.

I welcome continued responses, and will continue to think about my plan for this A. All responses and opinions thus far have been greatly appreciated!

Re: My First A - 1931 S/W Fordor
 

I agree, "original and Model A are terms that generally do not go together". My point is, before making the leap, keep an open mind.

I talked about the 1930 hubcaps on my car when I bought it in 1967 that had a lip on the circumference. I expected them to be original as the car was stored for years before I bought it. The judging Standards to this day say there was no lip or crimping marks. I picked up any hubcaps with the lip I saw and most people pointed out that they were reproduction. I appreciated there comments because the Standards were clear, "no lip"

I still believed different. Years later, film from Ford Canada's assembly line was discovered which shows that cap on the cars. Although it made a great impression, it wasn't enough.

Finally someone showed up with a NOS cap with Ford Canada markings on it. Dumbfounded, I remarked, I need four more! He turned and pulled out four more. As I mentioned, they are accepted to be part of the Canadian revisions for the Judging Standards.

The dark blue in my door jams, behind the dash and other protected spots didn't match US colors. I worked as I did on the hubcaps and Canadian Service Bulletins finally surfaced with different colors. Mine was "Classic Blue" and was used to make color chips available for Canadian cars. It is now accepted.

Re: My First A - 1931 S/W Fordor
 

[QUOTE=NH-A;2259999]Yes, I can get that later today. Is there anything else you need photos of? No blanket, only a box of headlight bulbs.

No, I don't need any other pictures other than that pouch with the flap held up to see the inside!

Re: My First A - 1931 S/W Fordor
 

the woodgraining looks great as-is.
clean it gently and leave it.
new woodgrain NEVER looks as good as factory.

Put off a repaint as long as possible, both because of the cost and the "look" of unrestored......

Re: My First A - 1931 S/W Fordor
 

[QUOTE=Cape Codder;2260670]
I sent you some pictures, did you get them?