Hello All Been lurkin for a few week ? about ammeter and alternator
 

I have 31 sedan that I inherited from my grandfather and the ammeter will go from pegged discharge when it starts to pegged charging then the fuse would blow when I go to rev it up to pull out. So I put a 30 amp breaker on it same scenario pegs it trips the breaker then the car shuts off. I've used the search function but can't find anyone with the same scenario. There is a condenser in the distributor and I've tried to get the timing down with the nurex wrench. Timing Definately not near where the woody idles but it has its own set of problems. I put new plugs in it and it backfires as well. There is a 6 volt alternator as well

Re: Hello All Been lurkin for a few week ? about ammeter and alternator
 

Need to excite the alternator!?

Re: Hello All Been lurkin for a few week ? about ammeter and alternator
 

It seems that there may be something wrong with the alternator. Try taking the wire off the alternator and starting the car to see if you get the same issue. If the problem goes away with the alternator disconnected, you can take it to an alternator shop (if you can find one) to have it looked at. Or get another alternator.

It may be a 12 volt alternator on a 6 volt car.

It may be a fault with the wiring like a bad ground or loose connection somewhere. Or there may be a short somewhere. If the problem persists with the alternator disconnected then look for a short. There may be a short in the horn or somewhere else. Try disconnecting things one at a time to see if you can isolate the cause.

Re: Hello All Been lurkin for a few week ? about ammeter and alternator
 

thanks all Nkaminar I'm in Western nc too down in Polk.
Does anyone stock a 6 volt alternator like oreilly advanced autozone napa?

Re: Hello All Been lurkin for a few week ? about ammeter and alternator
 

Regular auto parts stores do not stock 6 volt positive ground alternators. You will have to get it from a Model A parts supplier of your choice. But don't replace it until you confirm it is defective.

I am about 2 hours west of you, if you are in Polk County NC. We should get together.

It sounds like this is your first Model A. I would be glad to travel over there to help you out, if you want. Some basic electric system troubleshooting will pin down the problem very quickly.

Re: Hello All Been lurkin for a few week ? about ammeter and alternator
 

Jim, that's what the Model A hobby is all about. You are willing to travel two hours to help out a newbie. Congrats to you!!!

Re: Hello All Been lurkin for a few week ? about ammeter and alternator
 

I could use the help. Im overwhelmed right now trying to keep them running and i have one more to get out of the weather. I cant get that one(coupe) to start at all. It'll turn over just wont run. Ive got spark at the points. These things sat for 2 or 3 years without moving. I drained the gas out of the tanks but not the carbs. Anyways back to this one that started the thread. The sedan i disconnected the alternator and the ammeter just showed a slight discharge. The number on alternator says 12v negative. Is there a way to test the output voltage of the alternator?

Re: Hello All Been lurkin for a few week ? about ammeter and alternator
 

Here is part number of alternator. Maybe the problem is this car has been converted to 12v?

Re: Hello All Been lurkin for a few week ? about ammeter and alternator
 

1102394 37a

Re: Hello All Been lurkin for a few week ? about ammeter and alternator
 

An auto parts store, like O'Reilley or AutoZone, can test a 12 volt neg. ground alternator for you. They don't know anything about the 6 volt pos. ground variety, but this 12 volt neg. is pretty standard on modern cars for a long time now.

You need to get the goop from old, stale gas out of the carbs. Remove the carbs, spray the jets with carb cleaner followed by compressed air and put them back on the engine. Original Zenith carbs are held together by only 1 bolt; easy to take apart and put back together.

Re: Hello All Been lurkin for a few week ? about ammeter and alternator
 

The OP has a major short to ground. That's what burns fuses. The fuse protects the rest of the circuit. The alternator may or may not be involved but something inside would likely be burned melted or damaged enough to create a dead short. Inspect the charging circuit from stem to stern. It could be anywhere in system portions that are not switched. Lights, horn, and electric wiper are isolated if not switched on. Ignition has to be on to run but a short there won't let it run.

Re: Hello All Been lurkin for a few week ? about ammeter and alternator
 

I cannot travel to you to help right now but I posted what I did to get a car running that had sat outside for 5 years. See https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=329463

You have a short somewhere. Disconnect all the wiring and use your multi meter to find the short.

Google the alternator part number to learn if it is 12 V or 6 V. What voltage battery is installed? The 6 volt battery will have 3 caps on top for filling with distilled water. The 12 volt battery will have 2 caps that fill 3 cells each for a total of 6 cells.

Re: Hello All Been lurkin for a few week ? about ammeter and alternator
 

Which battery post is grounded to the frame??

Re: Hello All Been lurkin for a few week ? about ammeter and alternator
 

All 6V alternators are converted from 12V, and the case stamping isn't changed. The part number is rather meaningless since it is different for the make/model it was originally installed in.

You need to identify what type system you have, starting with the battery.

Re: Hello All Been lurkin for a few week ? about ammeter and alternator
 

One thing to remember, the Model A is originally POSITIVE ground. If you dropped a battery in, not knowing that, it would definitely create some havoc. As said above, some alternators have been converted to 6V positive ground so looking at the markings isn't really going to tell you much. Most coils will have a polarity marking on them, usually a + on one side of the primary. If the + is going to the distributor then than is an indicator that it is still positive ground. For sure disconnect the alternator until you figure it out. If you bring the alternator to a competent shop they can tell you if it has been converted. By the way, once you figure this out, DOCUMENT it, put a tag on the alternator and somewhere else on the car. This happens SO often, people make "improvements" to the car and leave no documentation for the next guy. Hydraulic break conversions are the worst for this. Also download a wiring diagram, use the search function here on Fordbarn, they have been posted many times. Good Luck!

Re: Hello All Been lurkin for a few week ? about ammeter and alternator
 

The stock electrical system is here in detail. https://www.mafca.com/downloads/Semi...ex%20Janke.pdf

It is a good resource but your electrical system may have been changed. Common changes are the ignition switch wiring and conversion to an alternator.

Re: Hello All Been lurkin for a few week ? about ammeter and alternator
 

Be careful you don't burn out the ammeter. Original ones are hard to find. If it goes to 30 amp it is a replacement already.

Charie Stephens

Re: Hello All Been lurkin for a few week ? about ammeter and alternator
 

The position cable is on the negative battery post
the ground cable is on the positive post

The ammeter is a 20amp one

How many grounds are there?I'll check the schematic

I'm pretty sure its still a 6 volt system all the batteries have been
6 volts

Re: Hello All Been lurkin for a few week ? about ammeter and alternator
 

Ground cable is attached to trans bolt. I wirewheeled it this am to make sure ground didn't have paint.

Re: Hello All Been lurkin for a few week ? about ammeter and alternator
 

Check grounding between alternator and battery post. Lack of common reference can lead to high voltage between them. Run AWG #12 between alt. case and battery ground post if necessary.

On a similar note, since battery ground has been moved to the bell housing, you also need a connection between ground post and frame (at least #12) for lights and horn.

Re: Hello All Been lurkin for a few week ? about ammeter and alternator
 

The original car had the engine pans that electrically connected the engine to the frame. Most cars no longer have these. The ground connection to the transmission bolt is good but the standard practice now is also to run a ground from the battery to the frame somewhere. All the accessories such as the lights and horn are connected to the frame, so if there is not a good connection between the engine and frame then that could cause problems.

Re: Hello All Been lurkin for a few week ? about ammeter and alternator
 

Everything you guys say is true, and worth doing at some point in the future after the car runs, but these things are NOT causing the problems that he initially reported that he needs to address.

He's blowing 30A fuses. There is a SHORT somewhere. It might be in the lighting system, the horn, the alternator, or just in the wiring harness somewhere. Systematic electrical troubleshooting will quickly narrow it down as to WHERE it is, and then he can focus on correcting the short.

Shotgun approaches of "try this", "you need to do that" won't quickly find the problem and fix it; it can actually make things worse as you unintentionally break yet something else.

After that he can mess around with improving grounds, adding wires, etc.

Re: Hello All Been lurkin for a few week ? about ammeter and alternator
 

I don't disagree with you, Jim. What I"m saying is that bad grounding can cause high voltage, which draws more current and blows lamps and fuses.

Re: Hello All Been lurkin for a few week ? about ammeter and alternator
 

Resistance makes heat. The more resistance the hotter it gets. The fuse, if properly sized for the conuctor wire, is designed to burn before the wire does. 6-volt system work best with the lowest resistance possible. This is why the conductor wire is larger than what 12-volt systems require.

Re: Hello All Been lurkin for a few week ? about ammeter and alternator
 

In post #3 I mentioned the possibility of a short and later on suggested disconnecting things and searching for a short with a multi meter. This seems like a very simple thing to me and probably most people on the forum. But it is not a simple thing to some people who don't have the experience with electrical systems. I have to keep reminding myself of this. Those people need someone with more experience to help and to explain how to do things in person.

I don't mean to be condescending or to degrade someone. It may be that with enough help on the forum the original poster can solve his problems. I am quite busy right now but if the problem does not get solved in a couple of weeks, I will drive down to his location to help in person.

Re: Hello All Been lurkin for a few week ? about ammeter and alternator
 

I have removed the horn still have same problem. I have removed the altermator and the problem goes away. Any way to read the voltage coming off it?

Re: Hello All Been lurkin for a few week ? about ammeter and alternator
 

Set your multimeter to the DC voltage scale. If you do not have a multimeter you can buy one at a very low cost at any hardware or automotive parts store. Put the red lead on the alternator post and the black lead on any good ground point such as the alternator case. With the engine at a fast idle you can read the voltage. The alternator may need to be hooked up to the electrical system to read a voltage. If it is a 6 volt system the voltage when charging should be about 7 volts. If it is a 12 volt alternator it will be putting out about 14 volts when charging. Any other number indicates a problem with the alternator or the electrical system or the battery. If it is a 12 volt alternator on a 6 volt system it will try to bring the battery up to 14 volts so the voltage you will measure in this case might be 8, 9, 10, or move volts. Excessive voltage will damage the battery.

Re: Hello All Been lurkin for a few week ? about ammeter and alternator
 

Traveler, Mr. Tom Endy has posted an article "Isolating an electrical fault: Quick and Easy!" at www.Santaanitaas.org. You can find it under the tech articles for Tom in the Electrical section pretty far down the list of articles.

It gives step by step instructions on isolating the problem.

Re: Hello All Been lurkin for a few week ? about ammeter and alternator
 

You may have trouble with using a modern (digital) multimeter on a Model A w/the engine running, caused by RFI from the ignition system. Analogue multimeters (old school) are immune to RFI.

Re: Hello All Been lurkin for a few week ? about ammeter and alternator
 

I would say you have found the problem: the alternator

You can run the engine with the lights off without the alternator being hooked up. You just run off of the energy stored in the battery. For a test.

You can buy a 6 volt positive ground alternator from one of the Model A parts suppliers and install it. IIRC you confirmed already that the car is setup with the battery installed "positive ground". There is no telling why the alternator you have has failed internally.

Re: Hello All Been lurkin for a few week ? about ammeter and alternator
 

alright got a chance to check the output of alternator and the highest reading i got was -4.8 . I removed the wires on the back of it and ran the car for 30 minutes with no problems. unfortunately I had to learn the hard way today with the woody and the windshield brackets if the windshield closes fast the brackets with crack windshield so I've got more work to do in replacing it.

Re: Hello All Been lurkin for a few week ? about ammeter and alternator
 

Does anyone make bumpers for the windshield swing arms?

Re: Hello All Been lurkin for a few week ? about ammeter and alternator
 

I randomly meet a guy at a parts store where I was getting some parts for my '57 Chevy and mentioned that I also had a Model A, he said he had two in his barn that he could not get running. He lived two town over but said I would be happy to help if I could. Long story short...after three days got both running, he asked what he owed me, I said "you got a beer, said he didn't drink.
But it was fun hearing them fire-up, his kids were jumping up and down...That was the last I heard from him.
And I'd do it again...

Re: Hello All Been lurkin for a few week ? about ammeter and alternator
 

Yes getting these old cars to run after sitting for years is exciting.
We finally got the coupe running yesterday and took it for a sunday drive just now. Great fun with the whole family. Now the more I drive them the longer the list gets.

Re: Hello All Been lurkin for a few week ? about ammeter and alternator
 

I never liked digital,analogue can show a fluctuation better up or down.

Re: Hello All Been lurkin for a few week ? about ammeter and alternator
 

I got a new altenator but its still running ammeter pinned at start then settles to 20 amps. I keep battery on trickle charger but the alternator still charges it right when i start it. This one wont idle like the other 2 either. Ive got it 2 clicks on the advance with the tester light but it stalls out with both levers up and sounds like its missing.

Re: Hello All Been lurkin for a few week ? about ammeter and alternator
 

It sounds like you have a short somewhere, or a bad battery, or the ammeter is defective, or the car is not wired exactly correctly. What do you know about the battery condition? Have you had it tested?

By systematically testing and changing one thing at a time, you can isolate the problem.

Spark lever (left side) "up" is just for starting. Pull it half way down as soon as it starts. A bit more when you go to drive off.

Throttle lever (right side) needs to be down a few clicks to start a cold engine and keep it running. After it warms up (about 5 minutes) you should be able to push it up all the way. It will miss a bit when cold with the throttle lever all the way up.

If it is still missing when warmed up, it could be a dirty carburetor (from sitting), the GAV is set wrong, the carb idle mixture is set wrong, the spark plugs are dirty, a bad ignition condenser (can happen with just age), or the distributor point gap is incorrect. Check and change or adjust one thing at a time.

Re: Hello All Been lurkin for a few week ? about ammeter and alternator
 

Traveler, I'm having trouble identifying exactly where you are in a logical process of elimination. Here are some specific questions that will help me and others home in:

There are normally two or more wires connected at the alternator. One from the terminal box and one or more spliced together that lead to multiple accessories, mainly the lights and horn, etc.

To initially test for problem location (continually charging at 20 amps), leave the accessories wire / wires off the alternator and have only the wire to the terminal box on the alternator.

If the fuse or breaker does not pop when you're wired this way, start the engine and run it. If it pops quickly, before starting the car, report back to us.

You've said that the engine runs pegged at first, then after some time, it settles back to 20 amps and continues to run indefinitely, as in you could drive the car, but then pops when revved to do so? Yes or No?

If the answer is Yes, either the ammeter is faulty or there is a high resistance somewhere in the charging circuit. This could be one or a combination of multiple issues collectively:

This could be a weak battery, too small sized cables, loose, dirty, broken wire strands hidden by the wire's shielding, or corroded connections anywhere in the charging circuit (ground or load side). The battery is the load.

The process of isolating these fault/s is called voltage drop testing. DC Voltage drop testing cannot be done with an ohmmeter. Voltage testing requires that current must be flowing in the circuit being tested etc.

Waiting for Traveler's reply. Sorry for the rehash Jim, Rotor, and others, it took me a long time to think through my post and get it typed in and edited.

Re: Hello All Been lurkin for a few week ? about ammeter and alternator
 

alright here are the things I've done

1)removed the horn it wouldn't work not connected
2)new battery(shows green light on Genesis charger)
3)replaced alternator with new one
4)cleaned battery ground at battery hold down
5)adjusted timing with light and nurex results are the same(although distributor cam screw is getting harder and harder to loosen)

Re: Hello All Been lurkin for a few week ? about ammeter and alternator
 

Yea the 30 amp breaker is still tripping. The car was off and the breaker tripped twice. I don't think these cars were run very much for the past 10 years. I guess I'll be learning more about the electronics on these things.
out of the 3 cars, at least one is running well other than the water pump leaks and I have to keep tightening the large weep? nut on the shaft.