|
Speedometer face plates 1940-1946 Hello
I am restoring gauge clusters for 1940 to 1946/47? Ford trucks and cars. The gauges all are King Seeley. The speedometers can be Waltham, Stewart Warner or King Seeley. Whereas I know that Waltham and Stewart Warner speedometer based clusters were used starting 1940, I am not so sure about King Seeley. The King Seeley based clusters I have seen up to now are 1945 and later. Does anybody have one that is earlier? Just to help you identify the cluster face plates: This is a 1940 Stewart Warner 100 mph: http://www.surfacezero.com/g503/data..._strange1.jpeg This is a 1940 Stewart Warner 60 mph: http://www.surfacezero.com/g503/data...h_strange.jpeg This is a 1941-1946 Stewart Warner 60 mph http://www.surfacezero.com/g503/data...ner_60_mph.JPG This. is a 1941-1946 Waltham 100 mph http://www.surfacezero.com/g503/data...am_100_mph.JPG This is a 1945 King Seeley 60 mph http://www.surfacezero.com/g503/data...S-B-8873_C.JPG and finally a 1945 King Seeley 100 mph http://www.surfacezero.com/g503/data...S-B-8877_C.JPG I have the decals for all these faceplates but as I do not want to make mistakes in the restoration of clusters, I need to know when King Seeley speedometer based clusters were used. Anybody? Greetings Hans PS. Just to show what a restored 60mph King Seeley faceplate looks like: http://www.surfacezero.com/g503/data/500/IMG_5464.JPG |
Re: Speedometer face plates 1940-1946 Hello
Not much reaction. Maybe my question was too complicated. I want to know when King Seeley speedometers were used on 1940-1946 clusters. One can recognize a King Seeley just by looking at it. It does not have screws to attach the face plate to the frame (four tabs, two on each side, are used) and the odometer window is so wide that it goes through the 3rd Gear region of the face plate. http://www.surfacezero.com/g503/data...t_20_08_28.png Greetings Hans |
Re: Speedometer face plates 1940-1946 While I have far less experience than other members, those faces don't look familiar to me.
|
Re: Speedometer face plates 1940-1946 Quote:
Thank you for reacting. Oeps. None of he face plates looks familiar? They all belong to clusters that were used in Ford Trucks and cars starting 1940 and ending 1946/1947. I am very surprized. You have a 1946 car. Should have a similar cluster ??? Greetings Hans |
Re: Speedometer face plates 1940-1946 I have considerable experience with these 1940/47 truck/commercial faces. The only rectangular one ever used in a passenger car was in 1940 standard and a sedan delivery in 1941. All 1942/48 passenger cars were round.
The King Seely is very uncommon. Stewart Warner most common. Does anyone know how to change a 60mph into a 100mph? |
Re: Speedometer face plates 1940-1946 Hello Fordyford,
That is interesting and new to me. So only the the trucks had the rectangular speedometer faceplates? (except the 1940 standard and the 1941 sedan of course). With respect to changing 60 mph to 100 mph, it is a matter of changing the magnetization or the hairspring. And of course change the face plate (but that is easy. I have decals of all of them). Very much easier said than done. A 60 mph magnet/hairspring combination makes the pointer turn 180 degrees. Now you want to make it turn +/- 110 degrees at 60 mph instead so you have to make the hairspring stiffer or the magnet weaker. Making he hairspring stiffer you can do by cutting away a part, making it shorter (Or by finding the impossible to find correct hairspring). You can also make the magnet weaker such hat the force it exerts on the speed cup is smaller. Weakening the magnet is possible by rotating it in a static magnetic field. Both solutions are extremely trial and error and very frustrating to do. Maybe the easiest is the magnetization but be careful because once you go to much down it is difficult to go up. Especially the Stewart Warner one (do not ask me how I know this ...) I am working on the calibration of an SW speedometer as we speak. I did post a question, the answer of which could help me, in another thread. Greetings Hans |
Re: Speedometer face plates 1940-1946 Hello
So I did some research and had a look at the website on identifying instrument panels: https://sites.google.com/site/identi...clusters-1940s I found this http://www.surfacezero.com/g503/data...V8_cluster.png and this: http://www.surfacezero.com/g503/data...47_cluster.png This confirms what Fordyford said. As I do not know about Ford Trucks my next question is: Are there two different kind of trucks: 1. The 4-speed one (60 mph) 2. The V8 one (100 mph) ??? Greetings Hans |
Re: Speedometer face plates 1940-1947 The engine did not determine which speedometer to use, the transmission would. Three speed or four speed.
Other things to know 1940 all used a VOLTMETER 1941/47 used ammeters oil pressure gauges changed to 80 pounds in 1944 the chrome bezel was a 1940/41 thing, 42/47 painted Tacoma cream Are you selling face kits? |
Re: Speedometer face plates 1940-1946 I have a 1940 cluster with an ammeter, I'll dig it out and post a pic.
Martin. |
Re: Speedometer face plates 1940-1947 Quote:
You are very right. Only in 1940 they did use a BATT gauge (volt meter). Afterwards it were AMP gauges. I knew that one moment in time they did go from 50 psi to 80 psi gauges but I did not know it was 1944. Nice info! Also the painting info is new to me. Top. Your question about face kits... These face kits are an asset to me. I spend a huge amount of time and software use license costs (Coreldraw) to make hem. I restore the Ford Truck clusters because I got a few of them looking for Ford GP clusters. I have made all the speedometer dial plates (60 mph and 100 mph for SW, KS and Waltham (only 100 mph)) and all gauge face plates (KS) 1940 and 1941-1947. I also have all the odometer number strips. Black and red. I use white and clear decals for that. If you want a 'face' to be redone, I prefer it is send to me. Using decals is not a one-time-try-thing. There is also the preparation of the surface you are going to apply it on. If you really know how to work with decals I might consider selling the face kits. PM me for that. Greetings Hans |
Re: Speedometer face plates 1940-1946 Hopefully here's the pics of the 1940 Truck cluster including the Amp guage, chrome surround and 100 mph four speed speedometer.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/vLaf8ZLUWtQ5XQwZ7 https://photos.app.goo.gl/6fdEASbGendGLxy58 An odd combination but it's real. Martin. |
Re: Speedometer face plates 1940-1946 I tried, can you see um if you click on um?
Martin. |
Re: Speedometer face plates 1940-1946 |
Re: Speedometer face plates 1940-1946 2 Attachment(s)
|
Re: Speedometer face plates 1940-1946 Ok, very good. Now Ford of Canada built military trucks from '38 on and used civilian guages for many of them. Note my avitar- it is a '42 Canadian Military Pattern truck with a 4speed civilian type face plate guage. Newc
|
Re: Speedometer face plates 1940-1946 I here you say four speed truck but are you sure you don't mean 1.5 ton and up? My half tons were four speeds and all had 100 mph and no shift indicator markings. GB. does your tonner pickup have the 60 MPH with the shift indicator marks? Just asking , never to old to learn, Tim
|
Re: Speedometer face plates 1940-1946 Quote:
|
Re: Speedometer face plates 1940-1946 Tim and Fritz,
I unfortunately have no idea if this cluster came out of a big truck. Which would seem odd as I've only seen 60 mph Speedos (the guage not the little swim pants) associated with them. But mines got shift points on it, but 100 mph? As for the ammeter, I've inquired in the past about this and the only answer I get is "they didn't have ammeters in 1940" which apparently ends the discussion. The very fact I have this here guage is ignored? Whish I could be more help. Martin. .ps. Fritz I love that pickup. |
Re: Speedometer face plates 1940-1946 Thank you scooder. Its a 41 but it has 40 gauges in it since I like them better. In light of that, that 40 style ammeter is fascinating.
|
Re: Speedometer face plates 1940-1946 You have a very uncommon cluster, 100 MPH and shift points? What does the back of the ammeter look like, screw terminals or induction loop?
|
Re: Speedometer face plates 1940-1946 Quote:
|
Re: Speedometer face plates 1940-1946 Quote:
I do have a speedometer like that also with 100 max. and shiftpoints. It proved to be a KPH (Kilometers per hour) speedometer, 60 MPH being around 100 KMH. There was a KPH indication under the pointer. I did start a discussion on it and you can find a picture of it: https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=323053 It is a Waltham speedometer, whereas this one is a Stewart Warner. I do see that there is a yellow spot under the pointer. I would not be surprised therefor that it is a KPH faceplate with the KPH indication removed. To know whether the speedometer is KM or Miles, one has to look at the gears (ref. the discussion on KPH speedometer referenced above). Quote:
This one is AMP and it should have an induction loop to make it work, not screw terminals. Greetings Hans |
Re: Speedometer face plates 1940-1946 Hans, you also have a 1940 style ammeter? From what country did you find these clusters?
|
Re: Speedometer face plates 1940-1946 Hello Fritz,
No I do not have that 1940 style AMP meter. The cluster had a 1941-1946 style AMP meter. The rest is 1940 style. I am replacing the 1941-1946 AMP with a 1940 BATT gauge. The 1940 style AMP is probably something late 1940 early 1941, just before they decided that AMP gauges are the better choice and before they switched to the 1941-1946 style. I think that that 1940 AMP gauge is quite rare. I would like to have a better picture, also from the type number on the bottom so that I can make the decal. Greetings Hans |
Re: Speedometer face plates 1940-1946 Quote:
Is it possible you make a picture of the AMP meter outside the casing? Like this: http://www.surfacezero.com/g503/data...r_IMG_3229.JPG or you can send one to me PM? Thanks Hans |
Re: Speedometer face plates 1940-1946 Hello
To make the contents of this thread more complete I add the picture of a 100 mph Waltham face plate: http://www.surfacezero.com/g503/data...0_IMG_5728.JPG I still hope to receive a good picture of the 1940 style AMP gauge. Please... Greetings Hans |
Re: Speedometer face plates 1940-1946 2 Attachment(s)
Right guys,
Sorry for delay, I completely forgot about this thread. (CRS syndrome)😁. This odd guage cluster, someone asked whether it maybe a KPH speedometer. I'd never think about this in the past but he's bang on. Just converted the speeds on mine from MPH to KPH and the shift indications convert straight over give or take a decimal point or two. 6 MPH = 10 KPH 12 MPH = 20 KPH 26 MPH = 42 KPH. So that's that answer. There is a paint blob under the needle which I can't see through, what's the betting it says KPH. The surround is/was chrom below is a pic of the Stewart Warner part # The Amp guage, Below is a pic of it removed, as you can see, it don't say amp or have the border. Just the essential stuff, numbers n lines. It is an inductive loop not screw terminals. And it's brass, the face and the back are brass, unlike the others I've had or seen. Hope that's answered your questions. Martin. |
Re: Speedometer face plates 1940-1946 Hans,
If you need a better pic I'll sort it out for you. Martin. |
Re: Speedometer face plates 1940-1946 Quote:
https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/attac...6&d=1682364482 |
Re: Speedometer face plates 1940-1946 Yes, my tonners have 60 mph with shift points. They all have 4 speeds. Not sure when the HD truck 3 speed came out.
|
Re: Speedometer face plates 1940-1946 Hello Scooder
Thank you very much for this. It has been a while and I lost track of the posts. Sorry. Luckily you did send me the PM so I found your pictures and comments. The AMP gauge face plates are brass. That is normal because the way a AMP meter works is that the magnetic field created by the current in the wire that goes through he inductive loop makes the pointer go one way or another (the pointer is sitting in a magnetic base). If the plate would be steel like the other gauges this would impact the magnetic forces. Your speedometer is made in March 1941 by the way. Greetings Hans |
Re: Speedometer face plates 1940-1946 Hello,
I started this thread long time ago and I posted some pictures of faceplates. Today I add a face plate that was not in the collection yet. It is a 60 mph 1940 faceplate for Waltham speedometer. http://www.surfacezero.com/g503/data...ham_60_mph.JPG It is for a 4-speed truck as you can see. Greetings Hans |
Re: Speedometer face plates 1940-1946 htc: Your gauge cluster decals are really beautiful. Thanks for your dedication for accuracy and attention to detail.
|
Re: Speedometer face plates 1940-1946 Those guages were used in Canadian Military trucks thru '42, before the military type was adapted. My CMP '42 uses a civilian type truck gage. Newc
|
Re: Speedometer face plates 1940-1946 Quote:
I use Coreldraw (a 30 USD/month software) to trace the latest detail. I think I am a little autistic :confused: Anyway, the biggest challenge is not the tracing. That is just a matter of time and attention to detail. The biggest challenge is the printing and the quality of the decal material. The colors are never what you want, not only because of the printer but also because of the decal material. Also, what is the right color. Who knows? Yes, one can use the NOS stuff that is still around but there also colors can have faded. It takes literally dozens of trials to get it somewhat right. And if you get it right the decal has to be fixed with clear coat varnish. Too much is not good, to little is not good and so on.. It is that undefined upfront that I do not dare to sell the decals, not wanting to buyer to not be satisfied. (EDIT: The following is for FordyFord which I mixed up with 19Fordy. Sorry) This being said, your information has also been valuable to me. I did start these restorations, not really knowing what for I was restoring. Thanks to you I know. I did about 40 clusters with the gauges up to now, not only for Ford trucks and Ford GP's but also for CMP's and armored cars. This picture is what I see sitting next to me here in my office: http://www.surfacezero.com/g503/data/500/WIP.jpeg Just one thing I want to add to this and that might be new info, even for you :) Recently I did restore two Stewart Warner based clusters. Both had the, what we call, 1941 and later design faceplate (not the curly characters). BUT as you know the Stewart Warner speedometers have the manufacturing date printed on the back and in these two cases they were H11 and H12. This means that the 1941 design faceplates were already manufactured in late 1940. So a late 1940 Ford Truck can have the 1941 design. For what it is worth. Greetings Hans |
Re: Speedometer face plates 1940-1946 Quote:
As you will know from 19Fordy, in Ford Trucks the BATT gauges was replaced starting 1941 (end of 1940?) with an AMP gauge. In he CMP however this was not the case. The CMP clusters continued to use the BATT gauge until the clusters were changed in what you call the military type (round gauges and speedometers). This changeover (to round separate gauges ) took place in 1943 however (I think ...). The pictures show a 1942 cluster for CMP (restored by me). Note the BATT gauge and the Tacoma Cream bezel. http://www.surfacezero.com/g503/data/500/IMG_9243.jpeg http://www.surfacezero.com/g503/data/500/IMG_9246.jpeg http://www.surfacezero.com/g503/data/500/IMG_9245.jpeg Greetings Hans |
Re: Speedometer face plates 1940-1946 Quote:
I had a '47 tonner panel and currently have 3 tonner pickups, one of which is a parts truck. A '46 and 2 '47s. All four have the T9 4 speed and the 60 mph speedometer face with shift points. |
Re: Speedometer face plates 1940-1946 Quote:
Do they have a 0-50-80 oil gauge and a Tacoma Cream bezel? Gr Hans Verzonden vanaf mijn iPhone met Tapatalk |
Re: Speedometer face plates 1940-1946 are you offering restoration services?
|
| All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:07 PM. |
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2026, vBulletin Solutions Inc.