Stuck Head
 

OK guys, I'm about to break stuff, and I'm in a I don't care attitude!

I have been trying to remove a head that is stuck beyond reason. I have been working on it going onto day 5 tomorrow, which In have set to my limit. Either the head comes off tomorrow, or it getting cut off with a die grinder, I'm so done with this. I had to walk away from the car last night because I had a hammer in my hand and I started looking at the windshield.

I have all but 4 studs removed. One is flush with the deck, and the other three just below the head. I have been digging between the copper trying to get out the insulator material. I can lift car off the ground while driving polycarbonate wedges. Rubber mallet, hitting blocks of wood with a mini jack.

NOTHING

Tomorrow, the plan is to remove the engine and cut the head into pieces unless someone has some magic trick up their sleeve. I have gone through a can of liquid wrench over the last two weeks while driving, and now I need a refill on my oxy/acet set up.

Regards
Bill

Re: Stuck Head
 

Put it back together with the head nuts a couple of turns off the head and start the engine. (no coolant, of course) :)

Re: Stuck Head
 

The way to show it who's the boss!

Re: Stuck Head
 

Heat each stud and put lard on them. This should break the seal around the studs and head.

Re: Stuck Head
 

Hello Bill CNC, stop! Take a deep breath, most of us have been in your shoes. I went through this 2 years ago with my newly purchased Victoria. I think my problem was that a previous repair involved drilling out a broken stud or two and helicoils (thread inserts) were installed. The problem was the holes and tapping was not perfect vertical to the block and the head was installed very tightly on the studs. It took me 4 hours to get the head off starting with putty knife, screw drivers and wedges of wood. I made a promise to myself that I would purchase a head removal tool from Snyders, part #A-6010-P. This tool will remove the head very quickly. Try to borrow one or purchase this part. It will save you the cost of a new head!! Good luck, Ed

Re: Stuck Head
 

I have never had a head stuck so tight on a Model A so I don't have any magic. I did have a head stuck on a 76 Jaguar and my solution was to sell the car for $75.

You might try a thin putty knife and hammer it into the head gasket in many places. It seems that someone has glued the head on.

Re: Stuck Head
 

Looks like I crossed posts with Ed.

If anyone out there is contemplating putting in helicoils, use an old scrap head to get the inserts in the right locations and vertical. Bolt the head down in a couple places and drill out the holes in the head to suit. The proper way is to use a mill and move the block to the exact correct position for each location. But if you do not have a mill the old head is the next best thing.

Re: Stuck Head
 

Use the rope trick, with #1 and #4 pistons down push 12 feet of 1/2 poly rope on top of the piston. You’ll need to use a stiff wire to push the rope over the pistons. Turn the engine over by hand compressing the rope, put a socket over the crank nut and then an extension and long breaker bar turn the engine. Don’t use the starter it has to much torque and you might bend a connecting rod .

Re: Stuck Head
 

Be careful you don't hit a valve when doing this.

Charlie Stephens

Re: Stuck Head
 

What I have done is take a cherry picker or engine hoist and hook it to two spark plug eyelets for lifting the engine. You have to make sure you have it square to do this and apply equal force to each hole. The chances of breaking anything are slim to none.

Re: Stuck Head
 

I have found that when using my purchased head puller (Stipe) that after I get the initial 3/4 inch or so lift, remove the puller and put 3/8 inch dia bolts on top of the studs and re-do the head puller. I then, if needed, use 1-1/2 inch bolts to get it off the rest of the way. No drunken sailor language required.

Re: Stuck Head
 

I have seen difficult head removals. Why not try a head puller. I think you would have luck with this one from Snyders Model A Parts:


HEAD PULLER KIT
Part # A-6010-PX | Model Year 28-34
Heavy duty head puller designed by Ron Cloat! Frees up the most stubborn Heads. Special plugs thread into spark plug holes that accept the supplied 1/2 grade 8 studs. Studs come up through the 3/8 thick steel plates that rest on top of the studs. Nuts threaded down on studs pull head up.

Re: Stuck Head
 

Couple of eye bolts in the spark plug holes then steady upward pull with the engine hoist. Gentle prying with putty knife to get it broken loose from the gasket, then wooden sticks the rest of the way. Keep clear of the valves!

Occasional strategic whacks with the dead blow hammer may also be needed.

Can be helpful to remove the two long studs (coolant gooseneck) before proceeding.

Important thing is to keep it square and not let it get canted side to side or front to back, it will bind up on the studs.

I have several 1/4" by various widths wooden sticks that I use on their sides to support the head on the way up. That way I only have to lift it about a 1/4" at a time to get a new support in.

JayJay

Re: Stuck Head
 

nkaminar,

Helicoils...I agree with your method of using a dedicated head modified for the purpose. I have one hanging on the wall and use it as needed.
Good Day!

Re: Stuck Head
 

Good info in this thread: https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showt...rt#post1997462

This also might be useful: https://www.brattons.com/BROKEN-HEAD...ductinfo/8235/

Re: Stuck Head
 

Re: Stuck Head
 

My head puller:

I started with a 8" x 12" × 1/2" piece of steel from the scrap yard at 35 cents/lb.

1. Drilled and tapped holes for 7/16-20 x 6" bolts that thread through the plate and sit on the 8 head studs surrounding spark plugs 2 & 3. I used a spare head to mark the needed holes. I used fully threaded 7/16-20 x 6" bolts but they are nearly impossible to find and pricey. You can use use 7/16" threaded rod with nuts welded on top. Don't use a larger diameter as it has to pass through the holes in the head,

2. Drilled two 1/2" thru-holes (not threaded) for bolts that screw into spark plug lift adapters *.

3. The brass 3/8" NPT hex nipples are used as alignment spacers that sit on the 4 head studs under the corners of the plate to keep it in place and aligned as it raises.The nipples may need to be slighty drilled out to slip easily slip over the bolts.

I used it this morning and the head started to lift with just a couple of turns of the 8 bolts. Randomly tighten each of the eight bolts just a turn or two to keep the head level as is raises. When club members borrow this, they will thank you and bring you beer

* The spark plug lift adapters are available from Snyders for $4 each. They are not in the catalog but ask for part# A-17022-LE. Or you can make your own from old spark plugs.

Re: Stuck Head
 

FINALLY!

I got the head off and it looks like I have one cracked exhaust valve about 1/4 of the diameter, and the head has a crack between #2 & #3 in the usual spot.

Question is, do I replace just the one valve, or should I replace them all?

Regards
Bill

Re: Stuck Head
 

Do you want to go through this process again?

Do a complete valve job. Another potential problem taken care of.

I learned this with age!

Re: Stuck Head
 

If I go full set, should I go with the original mushroomed ended valves or the modern style? I'll be replacing them with the engine still in the car if possible.

Regards
Bill

Re: Stuck Head
 

Bill
You will get many different opinions on this, so here goes mine
You can get a very good set of solid guides and modern style valves very reasonable
Chances are the existing seats are getting low so the choice is to either put in seats or get valves just a little larger. .050 to .065 dia This will allow for cutting existing seat and put the valve back up where it belongs
Now the question is what about the lash and lifters, this is where you need to be concerned
Does it currently have adjustable or original solid?
Both can be done, just have to be careful

J

Re: Stuck Head
 

I think they are original.

Regards
Bill

Re: Stuck Head
 

I think this is going to get you a lot of advice.

If it were my car. Not knowing anything else about the rest of the engines condition. I would stick with original style valves.

Enjoy.

Re: Stuck Head
 

Look original to me.

You might check with Dennis Piranio, I have used the set of modern valves from him in the past. He has quite a bit experience on this and is trustworthy.

John

Re: Stuck Head
 

A valve job is one thing, but cutting and inserting new seats with the engine in the car is not within most folks’ skill set and may not be worth the risk even then.

Re: Stuck Head
 

Take a good look at the valve seats. My engine rebuild started out as a valve job but then realizing that the valve seats were worse than what I could fix with the engine in the car.

Re: Stuck Head
 

Rope trick will not work, you will brake something inside the engine, and starting it up with the head unbolted will not work. it took me 3 weeks to take off my head. i drilled out 2 spark plugs, bolted on a chain and lifted the front wheals off the ground, and jumped up and down on the bumper, the head did not move. i barrowed a head puller, i thought that would work. i broke a part on it. i fixed the puller and left pressure on the head. i used lots of penatrating oil and heat around the studs. i took my time and i got so mad i walked away. don't take a hammer to it take your time. when you get mad walk away

Re: Stuck Head
 

will not work on some engines, i think its a bad idea

Re: Stuck Head
 

X 2

John

Re: Stuck Head
 

I'm pulling the engine today and will deal with the one remaining stud and the two that broke once the engine is removed.

I have gone through one can of Liquid Wrench and one can of PB Blaster and about 4oz of Acetone and trans fluid mix. I have noticed that most of the studs ends that are in the block have come out dry. The penetrant oil isn't penetrating very well. The last two studs were removed by heating the studs to glowing red, once mostly cooled, I put candle wax to the studs and tapped with a hammer as it melted. Those threads were 3/4 covered in wax.

Regards
Bill