Inner Tubes for Radials?
 

I currently have 6x16 bias ply tires on my '38 Deluxe Fordor that need replacing. Reading the many tire posts I've decided to switch to Diamondback Auburn Deluxe radials. To the best of my knowledge the 16" wheels are original. My question is do I need to also use inner tubes with the new radials?

Thanks in advance. Stay safe and healthy.

Re: Inner Tubes for Radials?
 

All DiamondBack tires are tubeless, so if your wheels are in good shape you should not need tubes.

Re: Inner Tubes for Radials?
 

I have radials on the wide fives on my '39 p/u and run them tubeless. The rears hold air fine but the fronts loose a couple of pounds a week. Don't know if the front wheels leak at the rivets or if they loose air due to flexing during turning. My guess is flexing since the rears are fine. Hard to believe that both fronts leak at the rivets but the rears are fine. As for now I just keep an eye on the tire pressure. Someday if I catch up on everything else I may dismount the tires and seal the inside of the wheels.

Re: Inner Tubes for Radials?
 

I Did the Diamond backs on my 46 Cadillac , no tubes required. You will love those tires on your ford. They are high end Toyo tires . Do not put tubes in radials as they can generate heat and cause other problems as well do to stretching in different directions at the same time. I would have the rims media blasted and powder coated. If they are riveted rims like mine I would and did spray the riveted area with some parts house spray can bed liner to make sure it was air tight. Tim

Re: Inner Tubes for Radials?
 

I have Diamond backs on my '36 Ford sedan...no inner tubes. I think their direction for rivets inside tdhe wheel was to cover them with something. Can't remember what i used. I've had no trouble at all after 5 years. Terry

Re: Inner Tubes for Radials?
 

A little jb weld buttered around the rivets will work as well. No tubes for radials.

Re: Inner Tubes for Radials?
 

Why not? Is there some problem with tubes in a tubeless tire?

Seems like belt and suspenders to me. I don't trust my original wheels to be clean enough for a good seal. Don't want to come to garage after weeks of storage and find a flat tire.

When I bought DiamondBack Auburn (see the avitar) I asked the salesman about this. His response was up to you, tubeless or with tubes either way is OK.

So why not use tubes? What harm?

Re: Inner Tubes for Radials?
 

No harm in using tubes designed for radials but why the extra expense if not needed? Using a tube designed for a bias ply tire in a radial will fail.

Some people get away with things we shouldn't do, like driving on 15yr old tires. But does that mean we should all do it?

In the end you have to make the decision that you feel comfortable with no matter how many opinions and facts you receive.

Re: Inner Tubes for Radials?
 

Thanks to everyone. Based on all the posts I will not be using inner tubes. I am using a super shop (hotrodders) for my tire mounting. They will checkout the wheels and correct everything as needed. Again thanks!

Re: Inner Tubes for Radials?
 

Thanks for the info. Yes, I got the "radial tubes" from DiamondBack with the Auburn tire purchase. In 2017 the tubes were only $9.90 each. Peanuts compared to the expensive price of the specialty tires.

Re: Inner Tubes for Radials?
 

Coker also markets radial tubes. They are usable on any wheel but they are very necessary on wire spoked wheels that are laced & trued. Some manufacturers try to seal the spoke nipples with epoxy but it rarely lasts and they start leaking around the nipples. Flaps would have to be used on wire wheels as well if tubes are installed.

A person has to drive carefully in corners when the rims don't have the safety ridge in the bead and radials move around a lot more than the bias ply types.

Re: Inner Tubes for Radials?
 

I've run radials on Kelsey Hayes wires on my 35 since the mid 80's. Because of the construction of these wheels, I've had to run tubes. The problem with 'radial tubes' is that they have a smaller valve stem, which necessitates running a plastic 'reducer bush' in the valve stem hole of the rim. I now run 'tractor tubes', these have the bigger valve stem that suits the rims, and they are of heavier construction....I've had zero problems with this combination. Incidently, I also run 'dynabeads' in the tubes, the fun part is the filling, but they are most excellent!!

Re: Inner Tubes for Radials?
 

Tubeless tires and tubes don't mix, and I don't care how many people are running tubes with tubeless tires. Do your research; listen to the professionals, not the know-it-all.

Re: Inner Tubes for Radials?
 

Thanks Brian. You've answered my question before I had a chance to ask it.

Re: Inner Tubes for Radials?
 

Actually...it was my local [professional] tire dealer who recommended the tractor inner tubes!

Re: Inner Tubes for Radials?
 

Here's my take... Back in the 90s I had a truck with multi piece wheels. I wanted to run radials so I did. I even went the extra mile and made sure I had tubes for radial tires.... Well, after fixing my second flat my tire guy at the gas station pointed out that tubeless radials have these ribs on the inside of the carcase. Sort of in a radial pattern, I think we have all seen them. Well, according to tire guy they chafe on the tube as they flex (and boy do radials flex) and then wear through the tube and cause failure. Now this was a truck I put 20,000 miles a year on back in those days and last month I mounted some radials on the same split rims. I used radial rated tubes, but on this one I doubt I will put 500 miles per year. Judge your usage from that....,. Less miles, less chafe?????

Re: Inner Tubes for Radials?
 

On my avatar I run tubeless radials on my wide 5s - like someone else had said my fronts also lost a few pounds every couple of weeks. I broke the bead and used some bead sealer and it hasn’t happened since and that was 4* years ago. I usually run normal modern passenger car radials save for the smaller 16” fronts. I was running Austones (spelling?) - the British taxi cab tires - but they have been replaced with Stais (spelling?) at Universal tire. When at Fall Carlisle I checked in with them and they were out of stock. Hopefully they are back for those in need ....

Re: Inner Tubes for Radials?
 

Well, only slightly off track here, but the normal tubes made today are of such shit quality that some folks run the radial tubes in bias tires because they are of much better quality, and i believe made by real companies and not a shack in china. As far as being safe, most of us are old enough to remember that tubeless tires came out many years before the rims ever had that extra "safety" bump around the wheel. I believe that bump is only an aid to help get a tire to "air up" when mounting, and has nothing to do with keeping a tire on the rim if you have a flat at speed. I have no radials...yet, but i plan to. I know from an old brand x thing I switched to 15" radials in the 80's, drove like a whole different car

Re: Inner Tubes for Radials?
 

I have a set of Coker 600x16 Classic WW radials and also a set of Diamondback radials, 750x16 rears (Yokohama's), & 550x16 fronts (Michelin's). Both sets use tubes made specifically for radial tires and have been mounted on '35 Ford wire wheels that are powder coated. Both sets of tires have been on my cars for about 10 years and both sets have gone many miles including two cross-country trips. Knock on wood.... I've never had any problems with either set. At the time I bought these tires, both companies suggested using the correct type tubes, and the local tire company who mounted them also recommend using radial type tubes that I purchased from a local Ag (tractor dealer) along with the plastic valve stem spacers/grommets.
I'm now guessing by one post I've quoted here these professionals were "know it all's" :) ;)

Re: Inner Tubes for Radials?
 

JFYI, Dodge introduced the safety wheel in '40, many years before tubeless tires were first used here in the U.S. by Packard in '54. Also the purpose of the safety wheel is to help keep the tire on the wheel during low or complete absence of air pressure. And I'm not that old! :)

Re: Inner Tubes for Radials?
 

That's another reason I felt more comfortable with tubes. Feared with tubeless, I get to the storage garage and find a slow rim leak caused a flat tire. And the fix may not be simply airing-up the tire. If the flat tire bead rolls off the wheel, then I am looking at having to pull the wheel/tire and a trip to a tire shop.

Re: Inner Tubes for Radials?
 

Sort of a stupid question, but do they make tube type radial tires? I've never seen them, but they may exist. If there is no tube type radial tires then what are radial tubes made for if not to be run in a tubeless radial tire. So far I've done fine with radial tubes in my tubeless radial tires with Kelsey Hayes true wires.
Stay safe
Steve

Re: Inner Tubes for Radials?
 

Many 16" radials from Coker are listed to require tubes.

Re: Inner Tubes for Radials?
 

Curious if they have the ribs on the inside that would rub a tube?

Re: Inner Tubes for Radials?
 

Coker 17 inch Radial Tires for my '34. This, from the Coker Tire Site >

SKU688901
GTIN 00842199101751
Brand Excelsior
Product Size 550R17
Tire Construction Bias Look Radial
Sidewall Style Blackwall
Radial Aspect Ratio 80
Rim Diameter 17
Overall Diameter (in) 28.5
Section Width (in) 5.7
Tread Width 4.60
Rim Width (in) 4.50 - 5.00
Max Load Capacity 1279@41 psi
Speed Rating S
Load Index 89 Construction Ply 6 PLY POLY/STEEL
DOT Approved Yes
Tube Type or Tubeless - Tube Type

Re: Inner Tubes for Radials?
 

V8 Bob has the straight skinny on the history and purpose of the safety bead on the rims. One of Chrysler's many innovations.

Re: Inner Tubes for Radials?
 

Ford didn't use safety rims till long after the flathead era. The wheels on my 51 Mercury cars don't have them and they are still riveted. The 5 on 5.5" X 15" wheels for the mid century Mercs use large diameter outy mount hub caps and have a large center hub hole so I'm stuck with them. They have had tubeless tires since the early 70s and do just fine as long as a person slows down for the sharp turns.

Re: Inner Tubes for Radials?
 

I have been following this thread with interest, as well as the one recently on driving on 12 year old Coker tires.


https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showt...ht=coker+tires


My current radials are seemingly in good shape but old. That thread got me thinking about replacing them. My 34 fordor currently has aftermarket 15" wire wheels with P225/70R15 tires. These are pretty wide, and I do prefer the look of the more original narrower tires. I don't know how wide the wheels are, but according to tire websites, they must be 7 to 8" wide. I don't have access to my car right now to verify.


If I am getting new tires, I was considering changing wheels to stock 17" x 3.25" wide wheels, which I would have to buy and get painted, so this is a fairly major decision. However, I would still want to have radial tires. I have been wondering if I would need to have tubes for these tires. As Petehoovie posted, the Coker tires for these wheels say they are designed to use tubes. I haven't been able to find any tires on line that say they don't require tubes. Are there any radials for 17 x 3.25" wheels that don't require tubes? Does anyone run tubeless radials for 17 x 3.25" wheels?


I know there are other issues to consider as well. Would have to compare the diameter of the new standard size tires to the current ones and make sure they would fit, as my car has been lowered somewhat. The narrower tires would fall further inside the wheel wells, so that could help. Would also need to consider the impact on the speedometer.


Here is a picture of my current wheels and tires. Still just considering it at this time and trying to get all the facts. Thanks for any input.

Re: Inner Tubes for Radials?
 

Hopefully, the person will also not need to make an unplanned "sharp turn" at speed to avoid debris in the road or a vehicle pulling out in front of him/her. When the tire bead comes off the rim seat at speed, the rim can dig into the ground and then things get very interesting.

Re: Inner Tubes for Radials?
 

After retiring from 35 years in the medium commercial tire business, I can offer some info on tubes.
Radial tubes should have the following benefits over bias tubes:
*Heavier gauge rubber
*Wider splice overlap
*Heavier valve stem base
All characteristics to deal with the additional flex inherent in the radial tire’s construction.

Tubeless tires are tubeless because the compound of the inner layer of rubber, or liner, resists the migration of air molecules through it, plus they have a slightly tapered 7* bead angle that coincides with the same angle on the rim’s bead seat area. This helps lock the bead to the rim.

The tube is merely an air container to prevent air loss through the porous liner. Any penetration (nail) results in instant air loss and the potential for rapid tire deterioration and control issues.
The liner of the tubeless tire is designed to close around a penetration and minimize or stop the air loss.

The safety bead rolled in to the steel rim helps to keep the tire’s bead from being sucked in to the drop center of the rim under low inflation or high side load, again resulting in loss of stability and control.

Farm tubes are not intended for highway use; only slow moving, relatively straight ahead operation at speeds less than 20 mph. They lack every feature of a radial tube.

Don’t risk it!

Re: Inner Tubes for Radials?
 

How many ounces of beads do you run? And how do you fill the tubes - squeeze bottle?

Re: Inner Tubes for Radials?
 

Yoyo, It's been a while since I did it; I've had zero issues since, so I am unable to tell you how much I put in, however the website told me. The filling is the fun part; I followed the instructions on the website, and modified to suit. I used a 'sauce ' bottle; I guess you guys would call it a ketchup bottle; a bottle with a tapered nozzle...I filled the bottle with the required amount of beads. Used a bit of clear plastic tubing of appropriate size to fit over the threaded portion of the valve stem and onto the spout of the sauce bottle. Idea is, remove the valve from the stem, fit the plastic tube onto v/v stem, pour some beads down the tube [you can see them because the plastic tubing is clear], until they've backed up about an inch into the tube, remove bottle, insert a compressed air duster gun over tube and blow the beads into the tire. Repeat until all beads are installed.
Now, I had trouble doing this initially, the beads would back up and refuse to blow into the tube. I figured there's like a flap of rubber at the base of the valve stem that was plugging up the works...I used a drill bit in a drill through the valve stem to clear this obstruction. Worked better after that. Don't drill through the opposite side of the tube!! All in all, the entire operation to fill 5 tubes took around 2 hours.
sorry I can't be more concise!

Re: Inner Tubes for Radials?
 

When using the air gun to blow the beads in, don't give it a continuous burst, rather a puff, puff, puff, suddenly they'll all just disappear into the tube!

Re: Inner Tubes for Radials?
 

Have you tried changing the backs for the fronts and see if they still loose air?