C59A Oil filtration circuit question
 

As I get closer to getting my engine completed, among numerous things, I started looking into the external oil filtration circuit. As the engine was in pieces when I purchased it, I have no idea how the oil filtration circuitry is supposed to be put together. My block has three openings on the bell housing, which from what little I've read seems to suggest a "full flow" oil filtration system. This would probably make sense, but I also have a threaded boss on my oil pan. Any ideas?

Re: C59A Oil filtration circuit question
 

Damn. It won't let me upload my pics...

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Try to reduce file size

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My block...

Re: C59A Oil filtration circuit question
 

My oil pan with "extra" boss...

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I think the problem had to with trying to load pics from one of my albums.

Re: C59A Oil filtration circuit question
 

Im no expert, this is how my C59A was when I bought it. Not sure if its correct but it seems to work just fine.

https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/attac...1&d=1608438299

Re: C59A Oil filtration circuit question
 

Ok. That's great. Thanks. I guess I'll need to verify if the "grub screw" is located in the internal horizontal passage. I kinda doubt it and think it would have been along what you have. I did find some oil hoses and a hard line, so I'll see if it can be mocked up as per your sketch.

Re: C59A Oil filtration circuit question
 

Ziggster, your block can be set up either with a full flow or a bypass system. The image you loaded in post #1 is full flow, and the line drawing that Will D. loaded in post #7 is a bypass.

The grub screw shown in your image must be removed if you want a bypass, and the top inboard tapped hole needs to be plugged. In comparing blocks, you'll see that Canadian blocks had that 3rd hole, while American blocks did not. The oil pan is the return location for your block, while earlier returns were either to the fuel pump stand or the distributor, through a hollow mounting bolt.

In deciding which system to use, consider first that modern detergent oil is far better than any oil available in the flathead era, in that it keeps impurities in circulation to be filtered out, while the original non detergent oil permitted impurities to settle overnight, becoming sludge in the pan and in the lifter ledges. There was no authorized oil filter accessory until 1936, which meant that settling out the impurities was a good thing for that reason, allowing a longer period between oil changes.

To compare the two systems, know that a bypass system will filter smaller particles than a full flow, without dropping the oil pressure. In addition, contrary to intuition, a bypass will filter close to 100% of all the oil in about 15 minutes driving time. It is for these two reasons that I am firmly opposed to converting a flathead to full flow filtration.

You will no doubt get opposing views on the subject, but in the end, it's your choice, including no oil filter at all. The one thing we all will agree on is the need to change oil (and filter) often and regularly.

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The diagram shown in #7 will work fine IF there is NOT a grub screw installed in the horizontal oil passage. There also needs to be a restrictor installed in the intel to the filter canister (.060).

What is shown in post #1 is a totally different setup!

Re: C59A Oil filtration circuit question
 

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Zigg and Will .....Since both of you have "C59A" blocks, they are both "Canadian" blocks which have THREE threaded oil holes at the rear, rather than only TWO holes on USA blocks. You've gotta be careful how you plumb these things. Will.....I was very surprised to see you using the "return" orifice for your "supply" to the filter can. Maybe both of you can garner a little more info on these Canadian oil systems by reading the thread in the link below. There is a LOT of info available with pics and diagrams if you use the "SEARCH" function above in the BLACK band. Type something like "Canadian oil filter", or "Canadian oil system" for your search. DD

https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showt...an+oil+filters

Re: C59A Oil filtration circuit question
 

Thanks for the link @V8Coopman. For sure I'll be doing more reading. I did some research a while back when I had the engine at the shop over a year ago, and just found several pics I had saved on the oiling system on my iPad.
I also just ordered and received the "Ford Flathead Engines How to Rebuild & Modify" book by Tony Thacker and Mike Herman. I did so hoping it might cover additional essential details as being discussed here, but it does not unfortunately. Even the bigger and better book (IMHO) "Ford Flathead V-8 Engines How to Rebuild & Modify" by Mike Bishop and Vern Tardel skips over what I would consider a lot of "essential" info including again this topic. Rant over. Lol!

Re: C59A Oil filtration circuit question
 

Surprised - as was I. I haven't thought much about the oil system as that's how it was when i bought it. Will be looking into it more as yes, it struck me odd using the "return" as the "supply once I saw ziggsters drawing in post#1. Thanks for the link Dick.

Just another detail that would have gone unnoticed if not for the Barn. Just like discovering last week from a "wind noise" thread, my weather seal was installed incorrectly on the door top edge instead of on the cab/frame. Didn't hardly seal at all.... looking forward to quieter rides.

Re: C59A Oil filtration circuit question
 

OK guys, what are we confusing here??? It is all the same port! There is not a return port unless further modifications are made to the block, it is three holes tapped into the same passage.

In the case of the original Canadian oil filter/oil cooler setup a special fitting was inserted into the vertical passageway to block the flow through the horizonal passage. THEN the third opening was used as a return port to the oil system. If the fitting is removed, then all three ports are connected and there is no "return" port.

Same goes with the so called "95%" external filter modification, a grub is inserted into the horizonal passage way again blocking it and THEN the third port is used as a "return" port.

Without one of these modifications all three ports are connected, one is the same as the other. So referring to the third port as a "return" port seems very confusing to me, any of the three ports could be used for a by-pass filter connection or an oil pressure sensor connection or just plugged if not need.

The arrangement shown in post #7 will work just fine and looks like a slick setup to me.

Re: C59A Oil filtration circuit question
 

My point, possibly poorly-stated, was that if a guy didn't know about that GRUB SCREW, or whether or not to check to see if one was installed in his engine, things COULD possibly turn ugly, especially with the possible misunderstanding of the 3-hole Canadian applications. DD

Re: C59A Oil filtration circuit question
 

Thanks guys. This now makes sense, and would explain why I have the oil return boss on my oil pan. I'll verify if I have the "grub screw" in a few days when I'm done with blasting parts in my cabinet.

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Unless you are wanting to do the 95% modification (which does not have a return to the oil pan), you DO NOT want there to be a grub screw. You want to check to insure there is not one. That may be what you were saying, but just to be sure, a mistake in this area can be catastrophic.

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Yep. I'll check to make sure there is NO "grub screw".

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Ziggster, sorry to beat a dead horse on this, but more than one experienced engine builder has destroyed an engine with a mistake in this area. It can really trip you up. Sounds like you've got it under control.

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I think quite a number of dead horses have been beaten on the barn, but there's always the few old timers and lots and lots of Newbies that never got the word till we beat 'em one more time.

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Easy to make and fit a true full flow setup while the eng is apart.
All my engines have this .
Lawrie

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:rolleyes:Easy for you Lawrie ..;)

I very much doubt there is a grub screw in that engine....

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Rob,
you are right, but if you have the engine apart why wouldn't,t you do it.
How did you go with yours mates diff?
Lawrie

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I cover this in my book, probably not as good as it could be, However all modern engines use the full flow filtering system, and it just makes sens. Especially with the cost of building these engine is so high, might as well take advantage of this system. All the engine I buld back then had this modificatio,. One person removed the filter with out removing the grub screw and destroyed the bearings in just a few minutes in just a few minutes.
Gramps

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Hey Ol Ron ,
Which is your book,,,,,I’ve got several,,,,,but I didn’t want to miss out of a good source of info .
Tommy

Can it be bought online ?

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Re: C59A Oil filtration circuit question
 

Yep Mat, thanks for posting that. Book was published back in 92. I think it helped bring the fathead back. Hope it helps.
Gramps

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I'll have to order Ron's book now. Lol!

Re: C59A Oil filtration circuit question
 

Okay good,,,,that is one that I don’t have,,,thank you .
Tommy

Re: C59A Oil filtration circuit question
 

OK, I'll bite? What exactly is a Grub Screw?? I built my first flathead in 1952 and my last one in 2007.

Re: C59A Oil filtration circuit question
 

This gentleman's question is EXACTLY the reason I felt the need to address this subject seriously, ONE MORE TIME, especially if you've got one of the 'THREE PORT' Canadian blocks, or you're running an oil filter.

The "Grub Screw" is a plug which, in this case, CAN be threaded into (or DELETED from) the horizontal oil passage between the inboard port and the outboard vertical port on a 3-port Canadian block. The grub screw can be seen with an arrow pointing toward it in the shaded portion of this drawing. You should read portions of this thread again thoroughly, or read some of the threads in this link below for a broader explanation. Come back for more if you still have questions. Click the link below! DD


https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/searc...rchid=19797316


https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/attac...4&d=1600870816

........

Re: C59A Oil filtration circuit question
 

Only thing I would add V8 that as far as I know the Canadian blocks were not originally threaded in the horizonal passageway and this type of screw was not used. The block would have to have been modified somewhere along the way for this to occur. And, that could well have happen, so it needs to be checked. The original factory setup used a fitting that screwed down into the vertical passageway and blocked the horizontal one. The original system had a safety relief valve to by-pass the filter if it became plugged for some reason.

Re: C59A Oil filtration circuit question
 

I guess this raises another question (for at least myself). Since all modern oil filters have a built-in pressure relief valve, would it not be a good idea to have one installed somewhere in the circuit since I'm guessing the "original style" oil filter/housing did not have one?

To further complicate things, some screen shots I took from the "mapleleafup" forum. Lol!

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Another...

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Last one.

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Of course the other option is no filter at all.

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Yes, the thought has crossed my mind as I really do not want to mount the huge fugly oil filter housing on the engine. Flatheads need to be seen and not obscured by "stuff". Eventually, I'll have to figure where/how to mount mine.

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I mount the filter down on the frame behind the steering box. Makes it easy to change with the oil.

Re: C59A Oil filtration circuit question
 

The external oil cooling and filtering set up was developed either in the UK or Canada for the universal carrier and for large trucks of a military nature. The engine being confined under a steel box and the vehicle not being of very high speed made it necessary to add an extra cooling capability and especially for the North African climate at the early outset of WWII.

For performance set ups, some folks tap directly into the oil pump body for oil pressure and pipe it out the side of the oil pan. The upper end of the pump body had to be plugged off so that all the pumped oil would exit the pan. This is the only way to get 100% filtration due to the fact that the rear main always got the first squirt of oil from the pump before heading on to the filter & oil galley.

The caution when setting up an external filter that runs from a block feed port and back to the block is to make certain that the plumbing is correct. If a person doesn't plug the port correctly, it can run pressure through a loop and never pressure up the galley. A few folks have found this out the hard way when their brand new overhaul was trashed.

Some folks call them grub screws and others call the set screws. The Canadian systems had a special fitting that fit down into the port far enough to block the passage that needed to be blocked but still allow proper flow. Others drill in there and tap the port for a plug or "grub screw".

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Thanks for all the feedback. So much history. Although I’m middle aged, I feel like the torch is being passed down, and I hope I can do the same one day.