Power Nation Flathead
 

I just watched an episode of Power nation. The engine in question was a 302 ci flathead. 65CC heads, block was relieved, and 3 94 carbs were installed, No Cam specs were mentioned Power was just shy of 160HP torque 267 . No RPM were called out. Kinda makes you wonder where all these 200hp flatheads come from

Re: Power Nation Flathead
 

Dreams?

Re: Power Nation Flathead
 

Did they give the total chamber volume, or, just the heads?

Re: Power Nation Flathead
 

That was just the heads. Block was relieved about .090.

Re: Power Nation Flathead
 

They're very small horses.


These are the same horses that live in 500HP 350s and 450HP SBF 302s.

http:///static.boredpanda.com/blog/w...es-26__605.jpg

Re: Power Nation Flathead
 

Now that Sir, is FUNNY! Probably, more truth to that statement than one can imagine. Cute li'l horsey, for sure! DD

http://static.boredpanda.com/blog/wp...es-26__605.jpg

Re: Power Nation Flathead
 

Love it!!

Re: Power Nation Flathead
 

Makes me think of a V8-60, they are cute too.........

Re: Power Nation Flathead
 

I saw that program also. For what they did to the engine, which was almost nothing, the dyno readings were very honest.

Re: Power Nation Flathead
 

And then?
https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/pictu...ictureid=43047

Re: Power Nation Flathead
 

I Wonder what cam they used? When JWL modified the stock engine, it produced very little HP reguardless of all the add on, untill a mile cam was installed and that helped allot. Most of the 276 Street engines i build only produced 130/140 Hp @ 42/4800, But this was more than double the original.

Re: Power Nation Flathead
 

you just gotta love this engine

Re: Power Nation Flathead
 

This explains those fast GMC/Chevs. Bought [2] 261 blocks today. Newc

Re: Power Nation Flathead
 

Been watching allot of LS and LT builds and the new aftermarket alum heads for the old engines. It seems that the biggest modification is the elinination of the bowl under the valve and blending it into the original port. JWL did something like that. Some thought should be given to this.
Gramps

Re: Power Nation Flathead
 

Did JWL ever publish the final power figure of his engine? I'm curious how it compared to the stock and mildly modified 8BA described in his book. I'm not curious about a final number as a true horsepower figure due to differences in dynos as described in his book.

Re: Power Nation Flathead
 

Rick Schnell of MN. built the worlds quickest single engine flathead dragster
a few years ago. Has a Very-Very highly modified Ford flathead, 900 hp.

Here's a link to a short video below.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2YHs0CG8MA8




.

Re: Power Nation Flathead
 

It's TV.



Oh man. Now I want one of these. :)

http://static.boredpanda.com/blog/wp...es-26__605.jpg[/QUOTE]

Re: Power Nation Flathead
 

you don't need a 1000 ponies to go fast.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uI6NmRjMsPk

Re: Power Nation Flathead
 

[/QUOTE]

Problem is that they don't ride very well. Your feet tend to drag continuously and it slows the horsy down a lot! DD

Re: Power Nation Flathead
 

I have a pet monkey, a tin can, and I plan to travel the land in a van. So I'm good. :)

Re: Power Nation Flathead
 

Nope just 300 from a 1950 Ford Flathead burning gasoline.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WuRbG60gTpM

Re: Power Nation Flathead
 

normally asperated engines, running pump gas. are more difficult to make HP. Supercharging and exotic fuels are the easy way. However, the trick here is keeping together. The new engines are street driven, yet make more power than the early mussel cars. In 96 GM came out with the Vortec cylinder head for the SMC and added 40 HP with the same CR and smaller valves. Technology at work. Sometimes we just get lazy.

Re: Power Nation Flathead
 

mtt

Re: Power Nation Flathead
 

Over 1500 people are watching this thread, just waitung for answers??
Gramps

Re: Power Nation Flathead
 

.

Every now and then, I realize that I AM just a little bit 'slow'! I just now realized that the MOST-EST LITTLE of these two 'baby' horseys (back in post #10) ain't for real, and is (once again) merely another masterful, "Photoshopped", lesser-creation directly from the imagination of "51 MERC". Ho, ho, HO! DD

https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/pictu...ictureid=43047

Re: Power Nation Flathead
 

The last flatheads including 1954 (and yes in Canada we enjoyed them for an additional year so change your title to 1954 ;-) were rated 120-125 with a single OEM carb. 7.5 CR and of course weren't stroked and bored to 302 cubes so why should 160 be so difficult???
Ol Ron chime in here about relieving blocks. The opinions vary greatly on this! Ford used to relieve their blocks in the early models but stopped and I have heard a few mention for the work, received very little HP gain and along with all of this lowered the compression!
If naturally aspirated perhaps the biggest gain other than cubes and a steep hill is compression? The fellows who are selling the aftermarket camshaft told me compression is very important as well to get a GOOD camshaft to perform.
Compression and a better camshaft seems plausible because my C8CM in my 50 Mercury only has a CR of 6.8 or less and is rated at 110 HP and of course this is off the flywheel not the rear wheels.

Then there are reports of the compression ratio if too high can have a negative result as well but I don't know because I have been rolling around the streets in my Mercury for almost 40 years with only 6.8!

Next is the cylinder head debate! Some argue between EAB and EAC compared to my C8CM heads (Canadian Mercury) but seems to me Ol Ron mentioned the most important factor for pretty much ANY head is getting a clearance of .050 between the head and top of piston?
Ol Ron I haven't found your book yet and the ones I have are too radical!! I'm not attempting to build a drag strip racer but just want to warm my 255 up! My Holley 885FFC should be a bit of an advantage being a slightly larger carburetor than the 3 stud Ford?

Also another possible consideration is pop up pistons and they come in different amounts as well. Some chirp that your displacement will be reduced but in reality if the compression is increased?
The criticisms or doubts are most likely mostly speculation?

At the end of the day cleaning up obstructions in the intake and exhaust ports, increasing the compression, finding a decent camshaft, and a bit bigger carburetor will most likely do the most for a naturally aspirated engine.
Then we get to those who think slapping on an enormous carburetor/carburetors on will help but instead the engine will be grossly over carbureted!

To sum it all up on my long reply is there are many arguments and in reality we need only the ones that are least amount of work and 💰 and start from there.
Don
PS
Merry Christmas and a happy new year!

Re: Power Nation Flathead
 

Oh and another thing we are overlooking is we are dealing with Ford so again decent horsepower should be possible LMAO ;-)

Re: Power Nation Flathead
 

What you are discussing here has all been dun in the past, and we know what the results are. What I'm suggesting is something new and untried. Find a copy of jWL's book and see that a 239 ford engine can not make 100HP, no mater what you add to it. You have to get inside. The 239Cr engine is a 3.8 liter engine and most make twice as much power, get better mileage, and last longer. Can't we use some of tthat technology?? Time to stert thinking outside the box!!
Gramps

Re: Power Nation Flathead
 

I think a lot of people believe (with test results to back it up) that the Ford advertised HP numbers are overstated.

Re: Power Nation Flathead
 

I have been told by the fellow who posted specs on the cylinder heads and he mentioned he has a flatty that he is running EFI and can be hidden within a carburetor for the stealth appearance lol and to get the boost he has made a manifold to accept turbos for the boost. With the turbo boost, the breathing limitations have been overcome as well and the EFI can piss in enough fuel to go with this boost.

Doing a compression test first and next checking my piston/head clearance and after the clearance reduction I have a couple of EAB cams kicking around and thanks to this forum I now know how to identify, which is simply look at the end where the timing gear goes on.
I also have a set of either EAB or EAC heads BUT as per the .050 clearance recommendation, other than milling my heads (if required) to .050 clearance, changing heads most likely won't solve much???

Yes thinking out side of the box is a great suggestion but I just want to warm things up a bit with a better? EAB cam if this is even an advantage other than having a couple on hand?
This makes me wonder because perhaps the EAB has a better duration BUT the 8CM appears to have more lift.
Now as for turbos and EFI, it won't run on 6 volts that my car is still on🤣
Also this is going farther than I really want anyway other than a bit of a warmup.
My Mercury is soon scheduled for a major resto and along with this a total rebuild of the engine as required is in the works. It won't need much with no oil consumption and oil pressure still high but a new set of gaskets, doing the valves and seats, then some swapping of the camshaft, machining of the heads and perhaps doing some work on the ports.
With the last of them rated at 120 give or take is 130+ possible without major work?
As for the size of the carburetor, take a look at those iddy biddy carbs used on the 2 barrel 283 and they most certainly were not much larger if they even were? They put out around 188-195 HP so given this and the breathing limitations of the flathead, unless I'm going for as much HP as possible which I'm not, the Holley 885 could remain?

Re: Power Nation Flathead
 

But then again is 120+ really that unrealistic especially with a 7:1 or 7.5:1 CR?
My 50 Merc with 6.8:1 or possibly even less will get my Mercury going down the highway between 85-90 MPH but meanwhile I used to have a 73 Torino with a 302 and it maxed out at around 85+ as well.
My 50 also has a factory visor but perhaps acts like a wing to make my Mercury fly😂.
There has to be a way other than steroids and quality oats to get my horses pull a bit harder and faster?
As Ol Ron mentioned about thinking outside the box, other than this I got newer goodies under my nose and don't know if they are that much of an advantage other than raising my compression and getting a new cam??

Re: Power Nation Flathead
 

If you are interested in some testing that was done on different modifications you might take a look at JWLs book.

Re: Power Nation Flathead
 

Here are some real world numbers for you from a post I made a few months ago :

"On my way back from the post office today, I stopped at my shop and threw a caliper on a Merc manifold and a small base 2G, just to see how much difference there was. The throttle bores in the Merc Manifold were 1.300", while the 2G has 1.4375" throttle bores. A little basic math and I came out with a total throttle bore area of 2.654 sq. in for the stock Merc setup and 3.418 sq. in for the 2G. That means the throttle bore area of a 2g is almost 30% larger than the Merc. Definitely a significant improvement."

The 2G will bolt directly on the Merc manifold, and the manifold will easily accept being bored out to match the Rochester carburetor. I have done several, both cast iron and aluminum.

Re: Power Nation Flathead
 

Thanks guys for the info! At least the 885 has larger bores than the 94's and now that I know the bore of a 2GC is I got an 885 core sitting on my shelf so I will measure the bores to satisfy my curiosity. Are the bores on the 885 larger than the 1.300?
I didn't think that 2GC was that large and I remember when I used to have a 64 Pontiac with a 283 and most likely it had a 2CG.
Otherwise I like my 885 and it has served me well. It was pathetically sick last summer with the crank n hope syndrome of either flooding after shutting off the engine hot or having to pour a small shot down the air cleaner and again crank n hope when hot. It had both symptoms even though it started great cold. I ordered a number of kits from Daytona Parts and now it starts very fast hot or cold with a tap on the button!
Since I got a core I can really scrutinize it along with my intakes because I got 3 flathead cores in my shed. My intake on my Mercury is of the cast iron flavor but boring it won't be difficult especially since I know somebody locally who has a small milling machine.

Re: Power Nation Flathead
 

Very fun video and fast. thanks! Fun to see something built for speed.

Re: Power Nation Flathead
 

Puting a bigger carb on an engine, doesn't mean the engine will get more air. Also the 2GC comes in several sizes. I use the small one which fit;s on the Merc intake and you can bor the intake to match the bore. I agree this will improve the amount of air aviaible to the engine. This is the key to hP, more air, and the only to get more air into the engine is with better ports ,or supercharging.

Re: Power Nation Flathead
 

Some answers are secrets 200 HP from a normally aspirated flathead is it possible the answer is yes. No I will not give the details except this using todays technology as applied to conventual engines is a starting point. Most are happy with a nice running flathead trying for that 200 number is time consuming not simple or cheap.
Ronnieroadster

Re: Power Nation Flathead
 

If you have secrets, why not tell us?
What would it cost you - money or otherwise?
We are the last generation that cares.

Re: Power Nation Flathead
 

Yes, I will explain in detail my ew port modification. Which is relatively inexpensive, but time consuming. I do believe the parts could be cast and machined for installing. We do allot to these engine that take mor money and time , with little rewards./ One of the best running engine I ever drove had stock valves and ports. As a street engine it was deemed unnecessary. Some of the things we do work and some don't. Hopefully we learn.
Gramps

Re: Power Nation Flathead
 

Ronnieroadster (Ron San Giovanni) takes his "secrets" pretty seriously. And he has worked and experimented for decades developing these secrets, and has more than earned the right to keep them close to his heart. You see, Ron and his son are devout, hard-core, record-holding, world-class, die hard flathead racers. Ron is a member of the highly prestigious "200 MPH Club" at Bonneville. To belong to that fellowship is honor-enough, but to get there with flathead power speaks volumes. Ron also holds records in Limestone, Maine for doing 200.9 MPH in a mile and a half with a flathead. Ride along with him on an earlier run in Maine that netted him ONLY a 172 MPH run.....insane for a flatty! The second video below shows the car and some examples of the "expense" and investment that Ron has put forth to earn and learn all of his well-guarded secrets. Enjoy!! DD


https://youtu.be/t5xpBsWCTwo

https://youtu.be/oRt8ZoOg63Y?list=UU...lFhpAC-Sa6zvOQ





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