Replace Flathead with Y-Block?
 

I would like to put a small block Ford V8 (Y-Block?) into my '52 Customline with a 3 speed manual transmission and overdrive. (Just because the OD is unique). The manual transmissions from '49 to '54 seem to use the same nose piece (#7050) and the same transmission case (#7006). This would take it into Y-Block territory.

Is the bolt pattern for all Y-Blocks to the bellhousing the same?

Is the bolt pattern for all Y-Block bellhousings to the transmission the same?

I have seen a reference to a "Wilcap 600WA Ford Y-Block 2 Ford Flathead Transmission Bellhousing Adapter" (no longer on the Wilcap website). Is this actually necessary for what I am trying to do?

Re: Replace Flathead with Y-Block?
 

It is my understanding that Wilcap has more than is listed on there site, might give them a call.


"We offer more than 70 different adapters and we have several hundred different engines and transmissions in our CAD library. If you can't find what your looking for on the pages listed below, call us."

Re: Replace Flathead with Y-Block?
 

It appears that the Wilcap 600WA adapts the early flathead transmission to the Y-block

https://picclick.com/Wilcap-600-WA-F...750850030.html

I believe all the ford car transmissions were the same bolt pattern to the bell housing up to 1964, I think. Some pickup bell housings had motor mounts cast into them. Heavy truck might have had different transmission bolt patterns, I don't know.

Re: Replace Flathead with Y-Block?
 

The "Y" block is substantially heaver than the flathead. The early :Y" blocks had 239/272 ci whick will make the front end of the car more difficult to steer and handle poorly. 54 springs might help. They may fit??PS will also help??

Re: Replace Flathead with Y-Block?
 

I had a '54 and '55 Ford years ago and they handled as good as any car of that era. Both of those cars had "Y" blocks. People used to put Olds engines in old Fords. Talk about heavy!

Re: Replace Flathead with Y-Block?
 

Did a 52 have king pins or ball joints

239 yblock up to 312 have the same bell housing pattern.

You need to get passanger car stuff like the timing cover oil pan motor mount flywheel (for the small clutch)
Passanger car bellhousing. Truck is deeper
Your stock clutch linkage should work
The flathead mounts are completely different from y block.

Re: Replace Flathead with Y-Block?
 

skidmarks,
'54 was the first year for ball joints.

Re: Replace Flathead with Y-Block?
 

If it were me I would drop in a 51-53 Merc flathead. It give you more power than the Ford engine and save you a lot of trouble.

Re: Replace Flathead with Y-Block?
 

With the change to ball joint front suspension in '54, I seem to remember that there was enough change to the car that there may be some oil pan interference and it wasn't a very happy swap. A "Y"-block is not a "small block Ford"; that is is the 289-302 series. They are smaller lighter, more powerful, and fit better. The money you will save by not having to buy a transmission adapter will quickly go for buying engine parts. Then if for some reason you want to add some "go fast" parts, you'll really be under water.

In this day and age, a "Y" block swap is not a good idea. However, if you have some nostalgic, "back in the day" reason for doing it, go ahead!

Re: Replace Flathead with Y-Block?
 

Y blocks into '49-'53 Fords weren't uncommon back when.
That said, any Y block less than 292 cubes is a wasted effort. I know people will say otherwise, but anything less than a 292 is a boat anchor.
If your Y block '54-'59 (car not truck) has a stick bell housing, clutch & flywheel, it will bolt up to your '52 trans.
Make sure the disc matches.
With the stock front sump Y block pan the guys used to cut a large opening into the '52 front cross member & fab side motor mounts. I know it's crude but it was done & it worked.
The better way is to use the truck or T Bird rear sump pan along with the oil up pick tube. It is cleaner but you still have to fuss with the cross member.

Re: Replace Flathead with Y-Block?
 

"I would like to put a small block Ford V8 (Y-Block?)"


I wouldn't exactly call a Y-Block V8 a small block. Probably as heavy as an FE V8.
Small displacement maybe, but small block ?


Sal

Re: Replace Flathead with Y-Block?
 

not all the 49 and up transmissions are interchangeable. rear motor mounts, clutch linkage attachments were distinct to 49 - 51 & were different for various years and internals (gear sets) changed in 53 i believe.....
that Wilcap 600 WA Ford Y-Block 2 Ford Flathead Transmission Bellhousing Adapter is for Yblock to 48 and earlier transmissions..

Re: Replace Flathead with Y-Block?
 

I guess I'm out of touch but I see no advantage of installing a Y block in your car.
Working on a Y-Block in the car can be a tedious task. Especially if you have to remove and replace the hex drive distributor. Do they have solid lifters? Not a user friendly engine.

Re: Replace Flathead with Y-Block?
 

So what is the state of your current Motor?

Re: Replace Flathead with Y-Block?
 

>>>I would like to put a small block Ford V8 (Y-Block?) into my '52 Customline with a 3 speed manual transmission and overdrive.>>>


Sorry. Your car was designed for only one SB OHV V8. And it isn't a SBF. Jack E/NJ

Re: Replace Flathead with Y-Block?
 

Just looked up some weights (no idea how consistent they are). The y-block engines are listed as 610lbs.

SBF (260-302) 460lbs
FE (332-428) 625lbs
385 (429-460) 720lbs

And per Rumbleseat, "1934 through 1948 V-B 85/90/100 hp flathead engines weigh 525 lbs (with cast iron heads)" No idea if the 8ba is heaver.

Re: Replace Flathead with Y-Block?
 

The Y blocks were the worst engines ever produced by Ford. Go to 302 family or back to a flathead. IMHO.

Re: Replace Flathead with Y-Block?
 

A lot of people would not agree to that statement. The 56 and 57 Fords were top winners in oval track racing and a number of them did good in 1/4 mile racing.

If treated right (as with any other engine) they were long lasting engines with plenty of torque.

Re: Replace Flathead with Y-Block?
 

One advantage would be about twice the horse power of a 239 flathead with a mild 292, if that's what your after.


Sal

Re: Replace Flathead with Y-Block?
 

I put a 292 in a 1950 car. Oil filter was where the steering gear is. Had to make a bipass plate. Also had to use a top shift adapter. This was in 1960. All poorboy, homemade stuff. Ran strong.


Bruce

Re: Replace Flathead with Y-Block?
 

Skip the 1 year y-block, lot of one off stuff. At least get the 272. 292 is great. But they are all 312s, it just depends on whom is selling. Yblocks are heavy (think the "average" is about 200 pounds on the 292 motor side vs flathead), but lot's of torque.


Don't forget about the 223 straight 6. First yr 53 (215, same deal, one off). Not a power house (about the same hp as a stock Flathead in 53) but pretty much bulletproof and cheap.


Best of luck!

.

Re: Replace Flathead with Y-Block?
 

Here's a video of Iron trap garage putting a "Y" block into a 39 Ford.
https://youtu.be/Wx0dBPs8U0I

Re: Replace Flathead with Y-Block?
 

Transmissions changed in 1951. The later transmissions have better gears than the earlier ones. To me, the Y-block engines belong in Y-block cars. Flatheads belong in flathead cars but that is my own person feeling on the subject.

Changing a powerplant for a more modern type requires substantial work and some yankee engineering. I'd want the best motor for the buck spent and that leads to the small block Ford in my book. A 351W would be a good choice for a heavy car.

Re: Replace Flathead with Y-Block?
 

A friend is putting a y block in his 38 ford, here’s a shot with the body off.

Re: Replace Flathead with Y-Block?
 

To reiterate, even though it's not the easiest choice, I was hoping to pair an OHV V8 with the original drive train due to the uniqueness of the manual 3 speed with overdrive. Something that I could hang an A/C compressor on, too? I would like to adapt a modern air filter cartridge to the oil bath air cleaner to keep close to the original look as well. Even though I might have an FiTech FI unit under it. I think there's motor mounts for almost anything but the issue is the driveline connection. A 302 would be nice but I don't know of any adapters available. The Y-Block seems to be the only thing close to working out.

Re: Replace Flathead with Y-Block?
 

You can rather easily do everything you want to do. Plus keep it just as close to the original look as possible. But not with a Y block. Jack E/NJ

Re: Replace Flathead with Y-Block?
 

RE- READ post 10.

Re: Replace Flathead with Y-Block?
 

In my opinion, dealing with the oddities and shortcomings of these old cars is part of the fun of driving them.

Re: Replace Flathead with Y-Block?
 

You would be hard pressed to name a worse Ford engine. Y blocks didn't breathe, hard on parts, especially bearings and lacked oil to the rockers. The FE motor in '58 was a big improvement. They couldn't compete on the drag strip at all. The SBC ate it for lunch all around.

Re: Replace Flathead with Y-Block?
 

42Merc - shame this forum doesn't have "like" buttons - you'd have got one. You would think hotrodders would be more supportive of someone trying to put together a specific concept. The 292's are pretty good engines and they have a firing order that gives a great sound. How cool is it to have that "OVERDRIVE" handle under the dash! Modern oils pretty much cure that top end oiling problem.

Re: Replace Flathead with Y-Block?
 

Going back in history, the development of the big cubic engines started in 49 with the 303 Olds and the 331 caddy. This was at a time when the 286 Flatty was about as far as you could go, without getting into allot of money. By the time you installed a cam and a few carbs, you'd have over 500 bucks into the car. Now along cam the 303 Olds and you could buy them for a coupla hundred bucks. Just made an adapter kit for a hundred bucks. And you could have a tire smoking street machine for allot less. Unfortunately, this brought about a few other problems, like blown trans and broken axles. It didn't take long before thay went the way of the old flathead. I ,even had a 392 Hemi in a 47 Plymouth. Besides all these broken parts, the handling qualities, and Brakes of the car mad them dangerous to drive. What was worse, they kept making them bigger.
Thus started the small block Chevy revolution. Hard to admit, it not only brought speed back but handling as well. Ford figured that out and produced the 302/351 and I think they weight about the same as a flatty. Now that I said all that my favorite engine is a 258 flathead, It might not be the most powerful engine, but in a light cat, cam, and a few other goodies. It make a very nice street machine.

Re: Replace Flathead with Y-Block?
 

Ron, believe the SBF was lighter than the flathead, something like 460lbs vs 525lbs. So it was even a better deal! The SBF is lighter than the SBC, which is heaver than a flathead, but the SBF was much later in time.

Re: Replace Flathead with Y-Block?
 

A dressed up Y block has a lot more eye appeal then a 302

Re: Replace Flathead with Y-Block?
 

DougE, the oiling problems with upper end oiling was more than just with the quality of oil. there were inherent Y block design issues that caused rocker arm shafts to suffer from lack of oil volume...... i have a 53 Vickie with a small block chev in it that was in front of the stock 3 speed with OD. i can help you with clutch issues if you wish to choose that route instead of the Y block. adapters are readily available for the chev to ford trans, and exhaust manifolds are simple. you will need a dropped tie rod to clear the pan........

Re: Replace Flathead with Y-Block?
 

While the early 239's and 256's had some strange issues with oiling the top end, the later Y-blocks did not... provided the oil passages to the rockers were clean and the oil was changed regularly. At least none of mine ever did. See the Y-block Guy's videos on youtube and do some of your own research on the issue. There's lots of "haters" out there...

As far as Y-blocks "not breathing", do a search for what Karol Miller did with his '56 at Bonneville back in the day.

Re: Replace Flathead with Y-Block?
 

Ford made a oil kit for the rockers to help their oiling problem with the Y block. I had a '57 Fairlane with a 292 and my buddy had the 312 in a like car. We both put the kits on our engines. No problems and many miles. (99,000 +) I have seen the kits on Ebay once in a while.

Re: Replace Flathead with Y-Block?
 

Yeah Yeah this whole mess, good choice bad choice, needs to be addressed on the H.A.M.B. This ain't why were here.

True enough many of us have vast experience ( myself included ) with transplants of Hemis, mouse motors, BBCs, Olds, and Whatever some body else drove into tree. This forum survives on the desire to drive a very unique. and antiquated V8.

Seriously ask the H.A.M.B.

Re: Replace Flathead with Y-Block?
 

A Bones - I am posting identical threads in the H.A.M.B. 1952-59 Ford Social Group and not getting much response.

Re: Replace Flathead with Y-Block?
 

I had a 54 Ford Mainliner with a 312 engine. It had the external rocker arm oiler on it but that wasn't enough since it suffered from low oil pressure too. I somewhat solved the rocker arm issue by pulling the rocker covers off monthly and pouring 90W gear oil on them to stop the squeaking. Later replaced that motor with a 59 Ford Police car engine, a 352.

Re: Replace Flathead with Y-Block?
 

Y-blocks evolved to be a decent engine but they were never a powerhouse engine. When they finally started to improve things in 1957 for T-birds and for racing programs, they actually got them into a respectable catagory. Some racers modified them further with good results. They are kind of an odd design with respect to fit up and function. The exhaust systems for the regular models were really funky.

A lot of the small block Ford bell housings have both the wide pattern bolt up and the narrow pattern bolt up for the old Ford-Borg/Warner design transmissions. The early 5-bolt bell housings for the small blocks all had the narrow pattern for the early T10 4-speed that would work with an old R10 or maybe an R11 overdrive. The early 1966 6-bolt bell housing had this pattern too but they are harder to find. I would prefer the T85 transmission with the R11 overdrive for performance. It's a lot stronger than the old R10 set up. I still see floor shifters for them now and then.