Could It Be :The rare 1940 Ford Deluxe Electric Clock
 

Dear Ford Barner's,

Recently I posted a question about replacing the face of my 1940 Deluxe Clock. The information was very helpful, and in a thread by Kube, the rare electric clock was mentioned.
Well here are some pictures of my clock, which I thought had been a standard New Haven or West Clock converted to electric.

The back of my clock says:
Ford Made in U.S.A
Borg Instruments
Patents:
3,688,395
3,583,152
2,858,029
3,137,122

I may be off on the patent numbers as they were hard to pick out.
My only research was on the Borg Instrument Company, which according to Google did manufacture electric clocks for Ford.

Am I lucky or just wishing?

As always the knowledge and insights on this forum are just remarkable.
MrPhat40

Re: Could It Be :The rare 1940 Ford Deluxe Electric Clock
 

Sorry, you are wishing,
It is obvious, to me anyway, that someone converted the stock wind up clock to an electric operated clock. Regardless, this is not the elusive accessory.

Re: Could It Be :The rare 1940 Ford Deluxe Electric Clock
 

Borg did make several different electric clocks for the Fords of different years but is not the Manufacturer of the 1940 Electric clock.

Re: Could It Be :The rare 1940 Ford Deluxe Electric Clock
 

It seems evident that someone adapted an electric movement in to the original poster's wind up case.

Here's some information in regard to the "real McCoy":
Manufactured by the New Haven Clock Company of Connecticut, the electric clock was installed only at the dealer level. To acquire this unit, the dealer was required to send a written request directly to the New Haven Clock Company.
Since it was cumbersome to acquire and a rather costly option ($9.00 list price), apparently both dealers and buyers had little interest in this accessory. As a result, the electric clock became (perhaps arguably) the rarest of authorized accessories. Very few are seen today.
The face of the clock was identical to the wind up clock installed in all Deluxe models. Its retainer was painted dark brown and fastened to the glove box lid with four binding head screws (33176-S).

The rear of the clock differed dramatically from that of the wind up clock. Depth, shape, and a built in fuse holder topped by a red plastic cap were the most noticeable differences. Its retainer was also different from the wind up version.
Also, the wiring harness required an additional lead. Note that the authentic lamp socket is quite different from modern reproductions.

Re: Could It Be :The rare 1940 Ford Deluxe Electric Clock
 

Just guessing, the conversion might have been done by "Instrument Services" whose tag is on the clock. They appear to still be in business (though in a different location). Their website advertises "Clock and Instrument" repai and service. https://www.clocksandgauges.com/

Re: Could It Be :The rare 1940 Ford Deluxe Electric Clock
 

You folks are the reason I just love the old car community in general and the
Ford Barn in particular. The knowledge pool here is so deep.
I appreciate the setting "my clock" straight. Does make sense that Instrument Services did a conversion.
Kube really appreciate the back ground on the rare !940 ford Deluxe electric clock. Very interesting story.

On to my next discovery and quest re: my old 40.

MrPhat40

Re: Could It Be :The rare 1940 Ford Deluxe Electric Clock
 

This one was made by Westclox.

Re: Could It Be :The rare 1940 Ford Deluxe Electric Clock
 

Yep, that was one of two suppliers to Ford for wind up clocks, the standard issue in all '40 Deluxe passenger cars.

Re: Could It Be :The rare 1940 Ford Deluxe Electric Clock
 

What is the value of an original & correct electric clock?Also, how about a fair value on a nice wind up clock and glove box door?

Trying to help out an older fellow sell some of his parts stash.

Thanks,

Re: Could It Be :The rare 1940 Ford Deluxe Electric Clock
 

A nice wind up clock, that works and keeps time, plus a glove box door with clock retainer should bring $200-$250. They should sell at that price. I've seen them for more, but have no idea if they sold. The battery powered repos, of which there are two, will sell for about $100-$150. One repo has hands like the original clock and the other repo has some gold modern hands. Other than the hands the two clocks look identical

Re: Could It Be :The rare 1940 Ford Deluxe Electric Clock
 

my 40 Merc came with an electric clock, doesn't work yet?

Re: Could It Be :The rare 1940 Ford Deluxe Electric Clock
 

Hi everyone,
I've been looking for a 1940 electric clock like many of you for years. I just want to make sure that I'm looking for the right one, but the more research I do the more I'm uncertain what is the right clock.


Is there any documentation or literature (besides the Early V8 Club 1940 book) on the New Haven Clock Company of Connecticut? And why is it the only FORD dealer electric clock for 1940? Why not use the same supplier that Mercury was using at the time? The wiring harness for a Deluxe car does not include wiring for an electric clock.
So is the New Haven electric clock a aftermarket accessory or a true dealer accessory?

And why is there no literature or internal FORD documentation? Who determined in The Early V8 Club 1940 book that the New Haven Clock Company was the supplier for FORD as a dealer accessory?


I'm just trying to understand is there real documentation or is it just old lore passed down through the years?


Thanks all!

Re: Could It Be :The rare 1940 Ford Deluxe Electric Clock
 

Bronco: The electric clock was not available in the beginning of the 40 year so many of the original 40 accessory documents do not show it. Ford did send out dealer letters announcing the availability of the clock also were to order the clock. It was only available through New Haven.
There is real documentation regarding the electric clock.

Re: Could It Be :The rare 1940 Ford Deluxe Electric Clock
 

I'm sure Kube has access to the original documentation.

Re: Could It Be :The rare 1940 Ford Deluxe Electric Clock
 

Has anybody seen or have the real documentation regarding the electric clock?

Re: Could It Be :The rare 1940 Ford Deluxe Electric Clock
 

BroncoDan,
I'd studied this clock thoroughly.
Please read my post #4. I can't imagine anything I'd missed.
These clocks were "real" and were authorized accessories.
I believe if you read that post carefully and absorb the details, you'll understand why they are so scarce.
I have had two in my entire life and know of only two more in existence.

Re: Could It Be :The rare 1940 Ford Deluxe Electric Clock
 

With all do respect, is there real documentation or is it just old lore passed down through the years?

We know that there are 2 clocks that could fit in to a 40 FORD Deluxe. West Clock and Borg Instruments. The West Clock and Borg Instrument 30 day are the only ones that I can find that the FORD Deluxe used. I believe New Haven made a electric clock that fit the 40 Deluxe, but I don’t think it was a dealer accessory.Why would they make only a couple of electric clocks for dealer accessory later in the year? Why wouldn’t FORD use the Mercury line (Geo W Borg electric clock) that they were producing in larger numbers? I’m not disbelieving the story, I’m trying understand is it real or lore? It could be true, but with out documents or literature its lore and not a real FORD authorized accessories. How did you studied this clock thoroughly? Where did you get your info from? I agree that there is no FORD info about the electric clock in there 1940 Catalog or the referents manual. I’ve added pics of these books for reference. I’m not trying to attack your story. I’m just try to understand where did it come from. I do want to believe this version, but I’m not sure about it.

Re: Could It Be :The rare 1940 Ford Deluxe Electric Clock
 

Oh ye of little faith:
I think it is good you ask!


Ford Motor Company
Milwaukee, Wis
Service Letter #1
Feb. 14, 1940
page 3
A scan of the document is below.

1940 Dlx. Fords used the Westclox and the New Haven hand wound clocks. Borgs were not used in 1940 Fords.

Re: Could It Be :The rare 1940 Ford Deluxe Electric Clock
 

Welcome to FordBarn, Bronco Don! I see that you came on board officially just a little over a year ago.


Now, with all DUE respect, it's seemingly obvious that you haven't gotten to really know some of the regular participants in this forum community. Lots of different types of folks here among us, such as the "relative newbies" like yourself, likely trying to gather serious information about an old Ford V8 that they somehow became the keeper thereof. And, there are some that frequent the forum almost daily that don't even own an old car...they merely have the interest, and likely just enjoy the camaraderie that this site offers in abundance. There are guys and even the occasional gal around here that own more than one old Ford, not to mention those that also own different varieties of "off brand" vehicles, even a Ford flathead V8-powered WWII tank-like armored vehicle, for instance. Can't begin to tell ya how many young folks AND old geezers there are onboard that just come here to swap and share an unbelievable and priceless cache of knowledge and experience that they have amassed with these old, used cars over the decades. What you MAY not realize yet is that there are some people, and somewhat more than just a few here on this site, that take this stuff SERIOUSLY....like you have no idea just how seriously! As an example, we have one particular 1932 Ford guy that has spent the better part of his life owning, restoring, lecturing and writing nationally and globally-acclaimed reference and judging materials, documents, books and manuals. This walking encyclopedia of things "old Ford" learned it all the hard way, traveling the globe in search of parts, cars, information, and not to forget that he spent much of his career in the top floor offices of Ford, including rubbing elbows with Henry II and other notables on a daily basis. He's a "regular" here on the 'Barn and is more than gracious in sharing his unprecedented research and knowledge when it comes to 1932 Fords. One more fellow FordBarner of note is Mike Kubarth, who goes by "Kube" on these pages. You've seen some of Kube's posts right here in this thread. Kube is not only the '39-'40 Ford "go to" guy here on the 'Barn...his 1939 and 1940 restorations regularly judge at 1,000 and 999 points, and have been nationally recognized and sought-after for many years now. Mike is one of those guys who admittedly is driven to absolute authenticity and perfection by his self-proclaimed OCD. Mike is a retired tool and die guy, well experienced in the business world, and like I mentioned earlier, beyond passionate when it comes to accurate information and authenticity. Your kind offer for us to peruse your informational books and pamphlets is well-taken. What you likely don't realize is that there is a plethora of available information, data and official documentation of unimaginable extent and content in the official Ford archives at The Benson Ford Research Center in Dearborn, MI. These serious guys don't just look at pamphlets like you show, nor do they just pull this stuff out of their collective butts. These extensive facilities in Dearborn are accessible to the public. Some of these serious guys have made MANY trips and spent hundreds of hours at the center researching whatever topic and era of vehicle that they have need for. Kube is getting close to finishing-up his long-awaited and much-needed 1940 Ford judging manual for the Early Ford V8 Club of America. It's an endeavor that Mike has put MANY years and umpteen hundreds of hours of sweat, frustration, research and elbow grease into. You can be assured that ANY information that makes it into the final printing of that book, or even onto the pages of this forum, is factual and without doubt well-documented. Not only does Kube's information come from written documents...this guy has owned well over 200 1940 Fords, with a few '39s thrown in there for good measure, since he caught the bug at about age 14 when he and his brother would scour the weekend newspapers in Chicago and Milwaukee, then head out to see what kind of '40 they could buy and turn during any particular week. Over the years, Mike has been able to pick-apart, photograph and document all of these ORIGINAL cars with a vengeance. So, for what it's worth, if Kube makes a statement pertaining to a '40 Ford, you can take it to the bank. I believe that most anyone here will tell ya that there's not another breathing soul on the planet with more 1940 Ford expertise than Mike Kubarth….PERIOD! That clock info that Kube gave you above...it's true scoop! Hoping you enjoy your time here on the FordBarn. DD

Re: Could It Be :The rare 1940 Ford Deluxe Electric Clock
 

VERY well written and excellent advice!!!

Re: Could It Be :The rare 1940 Ford Deluxe Electric Clock
 

I agree about the advice, "rockfla", but I wish he would have broken it down into a few paragraphs. I literally ran out of breath reading it!:D

Re: Could It Be :The rare 1940 Ford Deluxe Electric Clock
 

Yes Tubeman
But it was more a "put your arm around his shoulders" approach "as a friend" type of post NOT a "slap on the hand" type!! Very eloquently put!!! AND backed by absolute "FACT"

Re: Could It Be :The rare 1940 Ford Deluxe Electric Clock
 

Aw shucks, guys! You implying that I might have said something nice for a change? I do appreciate the kind words, though. DD

Re: Could It Be :The rare 1940 Ford Deluxe Electric Clock
 

THIS Special Edition for Tubman ONLY! DD
___________________________________



Welcome to FordBarn, Bronco Don! I see that you came on board officially just a little over a year ago.


Now, with all DUE respect, it's seemingly obvious that you haven't gotten to really know some of the regular participants in this forum community. Lots of different types of folks here among us, such as the "relative newbies" like yourself, likely trying to gather serious information about an old Ford V8 that they somehow became the keeper thereof. And, there are some that frequent the forum almost daily that don't even own an old car...they merely have the interest, and likely just enjoy the camaraderie that this site offers in abundance.


There are guys and even the occasional gal around here that own more than one old Ford, not to mention those that also own different varieties of "off brand" vehicles, even a Ford flathead V8-powered WWII tank-like armored vehicle, for instance. Can't begin to tell ya how many young folks AND old geezers there are onboard that just come here to swap and share an unbelievable and priceless cache of knowledge and experience that they have amassed with these old, used cars over the decades.


What you MAY not realize yet is that there are some people, and somewhat more than just a few here on this site, that take this stuff SERIOUSLY....like you have no idea just how seriously! As an example, we have one particular 1932 Ford guy that has spent the better part of his life owning, restoring, lecturing and writing nationally and globally-acclaimed reference and judging materials, documents, books and manuals. This walking encyclopedia of things "old Ford" learned it all the hard way, traveling the globe in search of parts, cars, information, and not to forget that he spent much of his career in the top floor offices of Ford, including rubbing elbows with Henry II and other notables on a daily basis. He's a "regular" here on the 'Barn and is more than gracious in sharing his unprecedented research and knowledge when it comes to 1932 Fords.


One more fellow FordBarner of note is Mike Kubarth, who goes by "Kube" on these pages. You've seen some of Kube's posts right here in this thread. Kube is not only the '39-'40 Ford "go to" guy here on the 'Barn...his 1939 and 1940 restorations regularly judge at 1,000 and 999 points, and have been nationally recognized and sought-after for many years now. Mike is one of those guys who admittedly is driven to absolute authenticity and perfection by his self-proclaimed OCD. Mike is a retired tool and die guy, well experienced in the business world, and like I mentioned earlier, beyond passionate when it comes to accurate information and authenticity.


Your kind offer for us to peruse your informational books and pamphlets is well-taken. What you likely don't realize is that there is a plethora of available information, data and official documentation of unimaginable extent and content in the official Ford archives at The Benson Ford Research Center in Dearborn, MI. These serious guys don't just look at pamphlets like you show, nor do they just pull this stuff out of their collective butts. These extensive facilities in Dearborn are accessible to the public. Some of these serious guys have made MANY trips and spent hundreds of hours at the center researching whatever topic and era of vehicle that they have need for.


Kube is getting close to finishing-up his long-awaited and much-needed 1940 Ford judging manual for the Early Ford V8 Club of America. It's an endeavor that Mike has put MANY years and umpteen hundreds of hours of sweat, frustration, research and elbow grease into. You can be assured that ANY information that makes it into the final printing of that book, or even onto the pages of this forum, is factual and without doubt well-documented.


Not only does Kube's information come from written documents...this guy has owned well over 200 1940 Fords, with a few '39s thrown in there for good measure, since he caught the bug at about age 14 when he and his brother would scour the weekend newspapers in Chicago and Milwaukee, then head out to see what kind of '40 they could buy and turn during any particular week. Over the years, Mike has been able to pick-apart, photograph and document all of these ORIGINAL cars with a vengeance.


So, for what it's worth, if Kube makes a statement pertaining to a '40 Ford, you can take it to the bank. I believe that most anyone here will tell ya that there's not another breathing soul on the planet with more 1940 Ford expertise than Mike Kubarth….PERIOD! That clock info that Kube gave you above...it's true scoop! Hoping you enjoy your time here on the FordBarn. DD


______________


Soo...does this help ya breath any mo-better, Denny?

Re: Could It Be :The rare 1940 Ford Deluxe Electric Clock
 

Might anyone know the Ford Part# for this elusive clock? I would presume if it was a Genuine Ford Accessory it would have a part number, which as the Service letter indicates this is not simply Folk Lore that this clock existed, in addition to the Fact Mike has supplied a photo of one.

Re: Could It Be :The rare 1940 Ford Deluxe Electric Clock
 

You know, Mr Coopman, it really is a lot easier to read, at least for me. Thank you. I also agree it is a message that should get out, and the easier it is to understand, the better.

Re: Could It Be :The rare 1940 Ford Deluxe Electric Clock
 

Here’s a couple pictures of the one I have .

Re: Could It Be :The rare 1940 Ford Deluxe Electric Clock
 

Hey Denny...You're so right....it IS much easier to absorb this way. I just got carried-away in the moment and kept-on keeping-on! DD

Re: Could It Be :The rare 1940 Ford Deluxe Electric Clock
 

OMG Ken, don't let Kubarth see that or he'll be knocking on your front door. DD

Re: Could It Be :The rare 1940 Ford Deluxe Electric Clock
 

Hello All,

Thanks for the feedback, I really do appreciated it. First of all, I’m not trying to challenge anyone’s knowledge here. I know that this is one of the most respected and knowledgeable early FORD forums on the internet. I also know that there is a lot of missing and misinformation in general about the early days of the FORD Motor Company. I was only asking where the information about the electric clock came from, the source. We have all heard many stories that sound good, that make sense, but we could not be certain about. Car lines, different factories, etc., and seeing a real document or official literature really can put truth and clarity to the stories. The service letter is not even in the “The 1940 FORD Book” just the story. I did not post the catalog and reference manual to one-up, challenge or show-off to anyone, just to add to the discussion.

Every car my family and I have owned, we try to find as much original documentation, literature and service manuals as possible. I would like to thank Terry OH for page 3 of that service letter, It certainly is a great piece in this puzzle. That being said, now I have more questions. Who was this service letter being sent to? And did it originate at the Milwaukee assembly plant ? Or was it direction from World Headquarters Dearborn? I’m sure these questions are answered in the first two pages, could you post them as well?

I know by asking these additional questions that I’m going to ruffle a few feathers, but that is not my intention. I’m really just trying to get a clear understanding, and confirmation of the origins of this clock.

About me. My father was a Transmission mechanic taught by his father who started the family transmission shop in the 1950’s. As a young adult in the 70’s to the 90’s I saw and helped my father with 3 frame-off restorations. 34 Cabriolet, 34 5 Window, and a 57 Belair. I have been going to swap meets since I was born. My first job at 14 years old was working for Bill Norton, Valley FORD Parts. Bill was a lifelong family friend, and I was lucky to know and learn from him. Our family at this time owns a 32 Roadster, 40 Woodie, 48 F1, 63 Lincoln, 65 Mustang conv, 66 GT350H, and a 74 Bronco which has been my everyday driver for the last 10 years. Most of these cars have been in our family for over 20 years, and my father and I still service and repair them ourselves. So I hope you can all understand, I’m just as passionate about FORDs (and anything mechanical) as most of you are. That is why I came here in search of this information, on the best early FORD forum on the web.

Lastly, I’m sure that Mike is one of the most knowledgeable people for the 40 FORDs, and I’m looking forward to the latest edition of the Early Ford V8 Club of America Judging Manual (I have the 3rd Printing of the 1940 FORD Book). **V8Coopman thanks for the correction on my typo.

Re: Could It Be :The rare 1940 Ford Deluxe Electric Clock
 

That attachment (from Terry, OH)Sure looks likes the typical Service branch letter format sent to ALL Ford Dealers from Ford. A practice that is still active to this day. You mentioned that this letter is not in the 1940 Book you currently own. While i do not have any 1940 service branch letters, I have MANY from other years. There are so many service branch letters issued within one year that it doesn't make sense to publish them all in the V-8 Clubs restoration book. A expert such as Mike Kubarth will likely carefully dissect the information in them to provide the important notes.

As mentioned, The BFRC (Benson Ford Research Center) would be a excellent place for you to visit. Granted I have only been there a handful of times, but you can literally research most any part such as the electric clock mentioned in this thread. Thus, my asking for the Ford part# as next time I am there I will put it on my list of things to research.

Let's face it, we are all nerds, and cannot get enough of this Early Ford info!

Re: Could It Be :The rare 1940 Ford Deluxe Electric Clock
 

Michael: Ford Chassis parts books do not list a part number for a 1940 electric clock. From the information in the Service Letter the 40 electric clock did not come to the dealer from any Ford warehouse or factory but directly from New Haven, it is possible Ford never issued a part number for the electric clock. The part number for the stem wind clock was 01A-15002-B. Electric clocks for the 39 and 40 Mercury had a basic part number of 15005. The 40 electric clock is very much like an aftermarket accessory, with the exception it was authorized by Ford.

Re: Could It Be :The rare 1940 Ford Deluxe Electric Clock
 

I think it is a very healthy thing that folks can come onto the barn, bring opinions, have ideas, ask questions and not get slaughtered. This is a place for all of us to work to increase our collective knowledge of early Fords.

I learned many years ago that asking the questions of "what, when, how or why" is important . . . in that I've found that we all have biases and things we regard as "facts" and really don't know their origin and sometimes if they are even true.

Sometimes (due to the questions being asked) we then have to step back, dig a bit deeper and try to determine why we believe what we do, or maybe how is it that we know something, where did it come from and are we sure. On occasion, we then have to research a bit more, maybe even change our views on something we held as gospel.

We're all in a continuous learning process . . . there is always more to know.

Good discussion - learned a lot about 40 Ford Clocks today! LOL

B&S

Re: Could It Be :The rare 1940 Ford Deluxe Electric Clock
 

Re: Could It Be :The rare 1940 Ford Deluxe Electric Clock
 

Terry, I believe you nailed this. One thing I might add, just opinion... this clock was never offered as a service part and that too (with your theory) would preclude a part number assignment.
My guess is this clock was offered to fill a small gap. That gap? Folks that really wanted such a thing. I doubt many folks did. After all, to spend nearly $10 to replace a clock that worked on a low price car... why?

Re: Could It Be :The rare 1940 Ford Deluxe Electric Clock
 

Good point. This was a fun and entertaining thread and I sure learned from it.

Re: Could It Be :The rare 1940 Ford Deluxe Electric Clock
 

I would suspect that the special pigtail wire harness came with the clock to plug into the factory harness?

Re: Could It Be :The rare 1940 Ford Deluxe Electric Clock
 

Yup, and to emphasize that, $10 in 1940 translates to $180 today - lotta money for a clock.

Re: Could It Be :The rare 1940 Ford Deluxe Electric Clock
 

TJ, I would think you to be correct. However, in my research that was never found.
When I have installed these clock, I have used the '40 Merc clock harness.

Re: Could It Be :The rare 1940 Ford Deluxe Electric Clock
 

ALL '40 Mercs came with an electric clock.