Help she no go....
 

OK I finally got done putting Barb back together and she is liquored up oil and water with no leaks-so far:) . Went to fire her up and got a wimpy pop and then nothing. So here is what I have done so far:


-Timed her three times (according to Les)-the dimple is just past the timing pin hole.
-The rotor lines up with #1 (modern upper plate) and I have 6v with a meter at the points. I also hear and see a spark when I open and close the points.

-I pulled the plugs to make rotation easier and they were bone dry and I have been using starter fluid.
-I have gas going to the carb as I cracked the line and it started to leak.
-She does crank


Any other ideas? Tomorrow I will pull a plug and see if I get a spark at the plug.





Thanks,


Mike

Re: Help she no go....
 

Stop using starter fluid.

Re: Help she no go....
 

Did You put in a new timing gear? Is it installed on the corresponding tooth on the crank gear? It sounds like timing.

Re: Help she no go....
 

To test - spark plug one should fire with spark lever up, ignition on, and the timing pin going into the dimple. Quickest easiest way to check timing and entire ignition.

Re: Help she no go....
 

No timing gear, everything is moving correctly as far as I can tell. It has to be electrical, I just can't figure out where. If it is timing I don't think there is a way to be 180 out.

Re: Help she no go....
 

Make sure the rotor points to #1 at the same time the timing gear is set for the dimple. I once assumed that just because I took the distributor out and put it back in that nothing could go wrong. That was the wrong thing to assume. I had the biggest loudest backfire I ever had. Fixing it was as easy as loosening the cam screw and setting it correctly.

Re: Help she no go....
 

You say there is voltage to the points, is there spark at the sparklers ? That should be checked.

Don't use any more ether !

Add some oil to the cylinders and spin the motor a bit, install the sparklers before trying to start it again.

Re: Help she no go....
 

There is a confusing statement in Les Andrew's book about timing. He says put the rotor arm "opposite" the #1 contact. He means AT, not across from!!!

Re: Help she no go....
 

Be sure you are on the top of the compression stroke and not the top of the exhaust stroke when it fires.

Re: Help she no go....
 

I am going to disagree with everyone. He says that the plugs are dry but there is gas at the input to the carburetor. If he removes the drain at the bottom of the carb does the gas flow? Dry plugs tells me that the gas is not getting to the cylinder. Jack

Re: Help she no go....
 

X2, drain bolt test, and -


Just to confirm timing would still do my post above, does plug 1 fire when when the timing pin goes into the dimple?

Re: Help she no go....
 

I'm not sure what you mean by "the dimple is just past the timing pin hole". The timing pin should fit into the dimple in the cam gear. The dimple and the timing pin hole should be in alignment.

When timed correctly, the rotor should be approximately in this position relative to the #1 contact on the distributor body with the lever on the column in the fully retarded (up) position.

http://www.abarnyard.com/workshop/images/distrib-2.jpg

The dotted lines are where the rotor should be with the lever on the column in the fully advanced (down) position.

Re: Help she no go....
 

When you think its electrical,its fuel,when you think its fuel,its electrical.

starting fluid? in a model a?..

Re: Help she no go....
 

I think it's an acceptable way of determining if it is an electrical or carb problem. If it pops (and maybe even runs a few seconds) on the ether, it is probably not an electrical problem. If it won't even pop on the ether there is probably no spark (or spark at the wrong time).

I know some are dead set against the use of starting fluid...especially in diesels...but I believe it's a good diagnostic tool in small doses.

https://blog.amsoil.com/is-starting-...r-gas-engines/

Re: Help she no go....
 

I use it,even in late high pressure common rail fuel systems on diesel engines,often the extra bit is needed when repriming a system.Sparingly is key,too much and they 'ether lock'..but on an A? pull plugs and drip a little gas in the cylinders..prior to doing it check spark at plugs.

Re: Help she no go....
 

Timing and brake rod adjustment seems to be the main problem that most have .. When the timing pin drops in place , I loosen the distributor cam and adjust so that the TRAILING edge of the rotor tip aligns exactly with the number one contact in the distributor cap . Most model A's have some ROTATIONAL free play in the distributor shaft , that I call backlash . Make sure that all of the backlash is in the counter clockwise direction when the cam screw is tightened or the timing will end up retarded to whatever amount of rotational backlash that is allowed to remain after the cam screw is tightened . It usually takes a few tries To get the backlash correct when present . There are distributor cam wrenches sold that makes this adjustment easier . If the timing is the least bit retarded it will never have the pep and power that it should have and it will run higher temps . I would also check the gaps at the rotor tip . Ford recommended a conservative gap of .025 . More gap will give hotter spark at the spark plugs . I set my gap at the rotor tip at .035 . If more gap scares you then set the gap at .025 and it will be at Ford specs . As for dry plugs , If the compression is real low , it may not have enough suction to pull the gas up to the combustion chambers . The engine could have flooded and washed the oil from around the rings. When the oil gets washed away from the rings , compression can be lost to a great degree . Pour a little oil in the cylinders like Pat recommends in post number seven .

Re: Help she no go....
 

Use advise from Dick Steinkamp. If your timing pin and rotor are in alignment and you are getting fuel, you should have ignition. I would remove the carburetor and check the float valve. If the bowl is dry or has minimal fuel this is a sign of internal blockage. The float valve could be stuck closed due to varnish or particles. Clean out any sediment in the bowl and make sure the float valve tip and seat are clean. Good luck

Re: Help she no go....
 

Intake gasket is leaking,motor is drawing air instead of fuel.

Re: Help she no go....
 

UPDATE.


I though the lack of spark was due to the fact that I anti-seized the base of the dizzy so that it would not rust into the head. Well removed the dizzy and cleaned it all off and still nothing. But I also changed the condenser out so will change it back to a known one this week. Unfortuantely, work is interfeiring with my hobby.


Mike

Re: Help she no go....
 

Wick I will check the manifold as I put in new gland rings that may be a tad to wide.


Mike

Re: Help she no go....
 

Now I'm confused. You said in your first post...

You now say...

Do you have a spark or not?

Re: Help she no go....
 

Sorry Dick, the latest test was cleaning the base of the dizzy and trying to start her. I didn't get anything-not even a cough. But I also have not had a chance to do any more testing. I will get a chance this weekend to try and test things out again. Oh, I think what you are referring to is the fact that I thought the lack of spark to the plugs was that the dizzy was not grounding through the head. I will update the thread this weekend.


Mike

Re: Help she no go....
 

What I was referring to was that in your first post you said you could see and hear a spark when you open and close the points. Then in post #19 you write about the lack of spark. Where in the process did the spark go away?

Re: Help she no go....
 

I have not tested for voltage at the points since the clean up. I can still hear them arcing (or what I perceive of them arcing) as I crank the engine. All I did was clean up the base of the dist. and try to start her. So I may still have spark at the points, I just have not had a chance to check yet.


Mike

Ps. Sorry for the confusion.

Re: Help she no go....
 

UPDATE.


Since I last tinkered on her:


-I re-timed her and go her dead on with the dimple right in the hole. And the rotor at #1 stud in the body

-I unscrewed the cable thinking it was in so far it was grounding the lower plate out

-Tested the coil and got a good blue spark
-6v at the points and continuity checked from points to stud


Last night she attempted to fire with all the and the cable not bolted down. This morning I bolted the cable down and now get nothing and the cable is in only about 2 complete turns thinking the spring was so strong it was grounding. Just out of curiosity I did a continuity check on the cable and got continuity between the brass dimple on the cable and the aluminum housing plus the armored cable. I thought the wire is supposed to be isolated until screwed into the dist. housing.



Mike

Re: Help she no go....
 

The condenser must be well grounded to the distributor housing . The screw on the passenger side of the distributor that holds the condenser in place must be tight with no grease between the condenser and the housing .

Re: Help she no go....
 

If you time it according to an established procedure, in the process you will have checked for spark at the points AND checked that the points are making and breaking the circuit to the coil.

Here is a good procedure...

http://www.model-a.org/adjust_timing.html

...and another...

http://abarnyard.com/workshop/timing.htm

In both procedures, if the test light isn't going on and off as you move the cam, you have a short somewhere in the system.

Re: Help she no go....
 

If you have continuity between the armored cable and the inner wire that screws into the distributor you have a short between the two.

Re: Help she no go....
 

OK. With the key off I get continuity but with it on I don't get continuity. I also don't get spark at any plug but I swear I hear it arcing and trying to jump. I just don't see anything. Thank you for the help with my problem.


Mike

Re: Help she no go....
 

That is as it should be. Do you have a good spark at the end of the coil wire when held about 1/4 inch from a head stud. If you do but still have no spark at the plugs then check to see if the rotor is turning and if you have a good spark at the plug connections.

Re: Help she no go....
 

Another update....:rolleyes::(


A recurring theme here was the popping up of the cap. So I bent the rotor tab up and got just a bit of pop. On a whim I tested out a theory and was right. Apparently, one can push the rotor on and have it sit too low on the cam:confused::confused::confused:. So I pulled it up a tad and bang she almost fired right up:). Eventually, I got her to run but at a very fast rough idle and when I lowered her RPMs she died. BUT, I got her to run so I know she will and I just have to make some adjustments to the carb-I hope that is all-and readjust the muffler as I have a leak. Thank you for all of your help in the past and future.


Mike

Re: Help she no go....
 

I don't think we heard about the recurring theme of the popping up of the cap (unless I missed it)...and I'm not sure what you mean by that. Does the top of the distributor body actually "pop" up? I can't figure out how this would happen with the hold down clips in place.

It also seems to be the opposite of the problem of having the rotor sit too low. If the rotor sits too low to make contact with the carbon knob on the inside of the cap, nothing would be pushing on the cap.

The rotor must be fully seated on the distributor cam. When seated, if the rotor tab does not contact the carbon knob on the inside of the cap then the tab has been bent down (a lot!), or the rotor is wrong or broken.

Re: Help she no go....
 

Possibly the end of the rotor arm is bent down so far it is not close enough to the buttons on the distributor body. When he raised the rotor up a bit it got close enough to the buttons.

Re: Help she no go....
 

Dick, some people had commented that the cap should pop up when the clips are removed. Well this one didn't do that. So Bent the tab up and it still didn't 'pop up'. So this time I just did not push it down that far. It is still seated though. But when I did not press it down so far then the cap popped up. I did not want to bend the rotor tab up as the dist. between it and the metal studs is within spec. I may need a new cap. Oh well, onto getting her running and adjusting her.


Mike