Banjo Axle Question - Where There’s Wear
 

I’ve started breaking down a pair of banjo rear ends I had set aside for my next project, to pick the best parts from both to use. I have a question about some wear I found on one of the axles. The area of concern is where the grease seal rides near the tapered end of the axle.

The picture below shows the three best axles I have out of the four I removed (the other has badly damaged threads that appear beyond any easy repair). The axle on the right is great, with no issues that I can see. The middle axle has some noticeable pitting on the grease seal surface. There is a closeup picture of that as well. The axle on the left looks ok, but I can feel a slight ridge where the seal rides.

I was hoping to get some opinions as to whether the middle axle and/or the axle on the left would cause me leakage problems down the road. I’ll be using new seals of course, but wanted to hear what you all thought about the wear and whether they will seal up okay. Thanks in advance for any help you can provide.

Re: Banjo Axle Question - Where There’s Wear
 

It's tough to give an accurate opinion based on viewing pictures on a small cell phone screen, but here's my opinion:
The rust pitting on center axle would need to be cleaned up, or you could consider relocating the lip seal a bit axially, so the lip rides on a different area of the axle.

I would also be concerned about the keyways, tapers, and threads on those, or any axles you plan to use on your rebuilds. I would suggest having those areas carefully checked before attempting any assembly.

Re: Banjo Axle Question - Where There’s Wear
 

Thanks John. The keyways, tapers, and threads look pretty good to me. I plan to lap the tapers to the hubs to get the best fit possible.

Over on the HAMB someone suggested a similar solution to yours of relocating the seal a bit. They mentioned installing two seals so that the working seal gets moved farther inboard where there is smooth metal on the axle. Do you know if the seal compartment in the housing has enough of a lip to seat two seals stacked like that?

Re: Banjo Axle Question - Where There’s Wear
 

Washer/spacer could also be made to fit behind a new installed seal.

Re: Banjo Axle Question - Where There’s Wear
 

No, I don't know if there is enough mounting diameter for two lip seals inside the axle housing, but Rob's idea of adding a spacer/washed in front of seal might do the trick.
One idea I had, but never tried, was to machine a two stepped diameter sleeve that presses into the existing axle housing seal diameter, and then mounts the seal in the second diameter. This would space the seal ~ 1/4" from the previous wear. (Probably clear as mud :))

Re: Banjo Axle Question - Where There’s Wear
 

You could try a secondary seal that locates in the end of the axle casing. they were once a popular "fix" that was commonly available. You might put out a call for some NOS ones.

Mart.

Re: Banjo Axle Question - Where There’s Wear
 

I wouldn't do anything until after the keyways have been mag inspected, or checked with dye penetrant inspection. There can be cracks stating your eye can not see. All three might be fine or all 3 might be junk. Not worth the risk of breaking the end off the axle. These are OLD and who knows how many miles they went without the proper torque.
That is my 2 cents.

Re: Banjo Axle Question - Where There’s Wear
 

A speedisleeve would restore that pitted seal surface

Re: Banjo Axle Question - Where There’s Wear
 

It would be interesting to see if they made a speedy sleeve in the correct diameter; we used them with good results on hyd pump shafts with bad grooves. Probably have to install the sleeves after the differential was assembled.

Brian types faster and beat me to this idea

Re: Banjo Axle Question - Where There’s Wear
 

They make speedy sleeves in all sorts of diameters. We used to use them as a repair for a worn shaft but the manufacturers started using them from new since it is a replaceable sleeve and will protect the shaft from possible breakage after extreme wear situations. They are installed with a correct diameter and length of steel tubing and we use a dab of Devon plastic steel to set them. The driver flange can be removed or left in place if it doesn't interfere with the seal.

I'd check into sizes and see if there are any that would fit. Here is a link to SKF sizes.
https://www.oit.edu/docs/default-sou...g.pdf?sfvrsn=2

Re: Banjo Axle Question - Where There’s Wear
 

to add to deuce roadsters comments, i once had an axle i was planning to use standing up, leaning against the wall. i bumped it with somthing, and when it hit the floor the side of the keyway flew out! further inspection showed it had been cracked for a while, i just didnt see it. sure glad it fell over!

Re: Banjo Axle Question - Where There’s Wear
 

I used many speedy sleeves on trailer axles, from SKF and CR ( Chicago Rawhide). Don’t know what’s available for this application
....Mark

Re: Banjo Axle Question - Where There’s Wear
 

Epoxy two seal together after roughing up the mating surfaces. Drive them home in each half and never look back.

Re: Banjo Axle Question - Where There’s Wear
 

Great ideas here, guys. Much appreciated. I think I’m going to try to bead blast the corrosion out of the middle axle, fill the pits with JB Weld, and polish smooth. That may be the simplest and most reasonably effective method. The JB Weld should hold up fine, especially if the pits aren’t too bad.

Re: Banjo Axle Question - Where There’s Wear
 

I'm going to throw another option out there; Fred at Southside Obsolete sells NOS axles. I think I got mine for $150.

Taking and setting up a banjo rear is a pain in tuckus. I didn't want any issues, so I chose to replace them. Just a thought .

Re: Banjo Axle Question - Where There’s Wear
 

sturges. Devcon makes excellent products for various types of repairs. One of them is, Devcon Plastic Steel Putty, which has good resistance to oil, gas and other things. I have used JB Weld, but not in a case where it is exposed to oil, so I don't know if it is resistant or not. I should read JB instructions some day. :)


https://itwperformancepolymers.com/p...-steel-putty-a

Re: Banjo Axle Question - Where There’s Wear
 

Quick update for you guys. I bead blasted the corrosion on the middle axle, and the pits don’t look too bad at all. I reposted the before picture so you could get a good before and after. I think some JB Weld or metal filler followed by a polish will do the trick. 51Woodie, I’ll check out that product you mentioned.

Re: Banjo Axle Question - Where There’s Wear
 

Something I always check is to see if the axles are genuine Ford. In my experience used axles showing cracks, odd wear etc. are most often replacement units. Ford axles are stamped with the Ford script toward the gear end of the axle.I will mot use non-Ford axles in a reared.

Re: Banjo Axle Question - Where There’s Wear
 

my 2 cents worth why not have them hard chromed and reground to std crack testing prior to commencing with out question have used this on other projects with outstanding success

Re: Banjo Axle Question - Where There’s Wear
 

Chrome plating has become real expensive over here...and if the pits are deep you have to apply a layer that is thick enough to fill the deepest pit...thickness is proportional to cost.
May even be cheaper to spray on metal and grind.
Cold spraying metal is a bit of gamble though...if you get flaking it ends up bad real fast chewing up the seal.
Really hard to beat a speedy sleeve cost wise.
Repair products like the epoxi based works really good from pressure point of view...like in if you want to install a bearing over it...not as good for wear having a lip seal run on it.

Re: Banjo Axle Question - Where There’s Wear
 

I hear you. Maybe it’s just me, but I’m having a hard time envisioning how I would drive a sleeve down that far on the axle. And I also don’t understand how the increased thickness (albeit minimal) wouldn’t cause problems. How thin of a sleeve are we talking? Seems the thinner it is, the more delicate and difficult to drive home?

Re: Banjo Axle Question - Where There’s Wear
 

I think you can buy new seals that have double lips just for this situation.

Re: Banjo Axle Question - Where There’s Wear
 

Speedi sleeves are so thin that they form to the shaft a bit. All that is needed it a piece of pipe or tube that will fit the driving flange. They work with the OEM seal and they have a bit of taper so the seal will engage it without hurting the lip. I fabricate drivers for what ever application I come up against so I have four or five of them now. A person can go to the hardware store and have them cut a nipple the right length from black steel pipe of a usable diameter.

This is a good video that shows how they work. It's an animation but a person gets the drift. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=09LiVbqL6ss

Re: Banjo Axle Question - Where There’s Wear
 

Quick update on this axle. I loaded up some JB Weld, carefully filed down the big globs and then delicately polished it with some 1000 grit. It came out really smooth. The pictures don’t do it justice but when closing my eyes and running my fingers over the area I cannot feel where the JB Weld is. I’m optimistic this will seal, but time will tell. It may be a while before I get all this back together but I’ll update the thread when I do. Thanks for all the input and suggestions.

Re: Banjo Axle Question - Where There’s Wear
 

I like JB Weld a lot and use it for a bunch of things, but I wonder about this. Please let us know how this turns out, long term. I used some as a last ditch repair on a Corvette window regulator (threaded into it) and it's still holding after 5 years, so maybe.....

Re: Banjo Axle Question - Where There’s Wear
 

I am confused, I have similar banjo in my 40 LZ, the tapered axle mates to drum, 100lb
torque fit, the backing plate has an oil catch cup surrounding the big seal, located in the drum...no seal on shaft of any kind??Lets see picture of the seal being discussed here..
My issue was the bearing surface on the housing, pitted and worn..

Re: Banjo Axle Question - Where There’s Wear
 

The seal is mounted from the inside of the bellhousing.
To get to it the rearaxle has to come apart.
The bearing/seal surface is fixed by turning it down and pressing on a new hardened sleeve.

Re: Banjo Axle Question - Where There’s Wear
 

The torque should be a lot more than 100lb!

Re: Banjo Axle Question - Where There’s Wear
 

I have used undercut and flame spraying on heavy bearing surfaces and crank pulley seal surfaces with great success. JMO

Re: Banjo Axle Question - Where There’s Wear
 

Sorry...I know you're proud of your work, but really, a speedisleeve is designed to overcome exactly what you've attempted to do. It is a thinwall stainless steel sleeve that presses over the damaged portion of a shaft and provides an ultimate surface for the seal to run on. You have prepped the shaft perfectly to accept a speedisleeve, so why not do the job properly?
It is amazing how a seal can cut a groove into a steel shaft; if this happens so easily, what hope has JBweld got of withstanding the abrasion/friction from a seal? JB would not exhibit anywhere near the wear properties of the original vanadium steel alloy Henry used.
I do not mean to be-little you, but you asked how best to repair this axle, and have been offered several solutions, and have undertaked some sort of shonky, farmer fix!

Re: Banjo Axle Question - Where There’s Wear
 

spot on brian, and well put

Re: Banjo Axle Question - Where There’s Wear
 

Brian, I thought the JB Weld idea was good until I read your response. I agree, and applaud you for your outspoken but well placed criticism.

Re: Banjo Axle Question - Where There’s Wear
 

Brian, I do not feel belittled in the slightest. I posted this to get opinions and options, and I welcome criticism of my work. I can’t even say I’m particularly proud of it - just optimistic :o

But your post made me do a little more research on the speedi sleeve option and I think I’ll give that a whirl. It would have been interesting to find out if the JB Weld would hold up in this application. With so much of the original surface still solid I think it would have a real good shot. But having watched a few speedi sleeve install videos, I agree that is the better solution to this problem.

Re: Banjo Axle Question - Where There’s Wear
 

I'd love to hear about the process and see pictures of a speedi sleeve actually placed securely in the area of wear on one of these early Ford banjo rear axles. It's easy to say how good this would be, but lets see the proof of the pudding. I'm planing to rebuild two banjo rears in the next month or two, and will go in this same direction if it looks like it will work well. Otherwise, I will go in the direction of slightly repositioning the seal in the axle housing to locate on a different, unworn area of the axle.

Re: Banjo Axle Question - Where There’s Wear
 

I use professional epoxi repair products for shaft repair and i can tell you they work real well if you want to install a bearing or a pulley on it that is static but as i stated earlier they are not very wear resistant trying to use it as a bearing/seal surface..
Not much that can beat a speedy sleeve in cost/performance point of view if you can use it.
Takes the least amount of prep and install time compared to any other method including aplying epoxi and cleaning it up.
Lot´s of different versions of bushing install liquids from loctite...some can fill up quite a large gap.

Re: Banjo Axle Question - Where There’s Wear
 

Speedy-Sleeves go on easy. Lightly tapping the tube with a mallet or hammer does the trick. Save your epoxy to install the sleeve. I generally use Devcon plastic steel to set them on a shaft but any type of epoxy spread on the area where the sleeve will reside will do the trick The sleeves may only be a 1/4" wide or a bit more so make sure you place it as close to the middle of the wear area as you can. Mark the shaft where you want the sleeve to stop to center up and drive it on. You can leave the driving shoulder on or cut it with a pair of dikes and carefully pull it off around the place that it is scored for removal. The shoulder comes off surprisingly easy. If it's not in the way then the shoulder can be left on there with no ill effect. It just depends on how the seal is designed and whether it will interfere with it or not.

Re: Banjo Axle Question - Where There’s Wear
 

So I ran into a bit of a snag with the speedi sleeves. I cannot seem to find a sleeve of the right size. They have sleeves for a 1.123" to 1.127" shaft diameter range, which is too small based on my measurements, and the next size up is a 1.154" to 1.158" range. My digital calipers are giving me an axle diameter somewhere in the 1.1370" to 1.1380" range.

Can anyone verify the axle diameter for me? I hope it is something as simple as my calipers being off. Maybe its time for a new set...

Re: Banjo Axle Question - Where There’s Wear
 

This is exactly the problem I invisioned with using a speedi sleeve. The likely hood of finding something off the shelf with the exact ID/OD needed seemed pretty slim to me. I think finding a suitable filler that will not wear quickly where the seal lip rides, or relocating the lip seal axially by some slight amount to ride on a new area of the axle shaft, seem to be the best ideas to me.

Re: Banjo Axle Question - Where There’s Wear
 

If you live near a local marina, this type of damage is very common with old boat shafts and most marina operators know that old guy with a machine shop that can build up the metal and then turn it back to original specs. Just an idea.

Re: Banjo Axle Question - Where There’s Wear
 

Checking several of my axles I've come up with variations from 1.130" to 1.135" with a micrometer. There is noticeable grooving in the wear areas so I measured the non wear areas where they cleaned up the forgings for that seal to ride. The machining wasn't anything to write home to Mom about on any of the four I checked.

I would put them in a lathe and turn them down to high end of the range like 1.128" for the closest speedi-sleeve which is 1.125" and use the 3/8" width. If the lathe doesn't clean up the groove, I'd fill it with Devcon Plastic Steel like they recommend at SKF and drive it on.

The only other good fix would be plating it back up with hard chrome and machining it back down but a good used axle would cost far less than what that would cost.