Beware
 

Know of a guy who tried to install a new Brassworks rad. Only problem is lower outlet way too small, hose way too loose. Beware

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Be sure to send them a link to this post, they (especially their management) should find it interesting. I am sure Ford had a spec for that outlet since they all came out the same size. It is called a drawing. Let us know if anything improves.

Charlie Stephens

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Co says Ford's drawing had no size. Their suggestion was to wrap friction tape around lower outlet......................................
Paul in CT

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that's BS and we all know it....
The vendors that make the hoses seems to know the correct size

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yea even on brassworks website they claim the outlets they measured were 1 11/16 so they went with 1 5/8"? said if it fits loose wrap duct tape around the outlet then slip the hose on... Yea thats great quality...

Go with Bergs - pricey but have heard nothing bad about the radiators or the company. looks like brassworks went to China or Vietnam for labor or tooling or something. For what you pay for one it should be a nearly drop in and go item with all the holes lined up.

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Return that piece of junk,demand a full refund,idiots,wrap tape around it!Thanks for the heads up about the quality.

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Shame on them! Too blatant error...If, as they said, Ford drawing did NOT have size, They should have held up production until they had the specs. If they could not obtain they specs they should have corresponded with you and found out what size hose you would be using and where your purchased it.Then they could have designed to fitting to fit your hoses.

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My experience was different. I drove over to the shop, got a tour and picked up my radiator. All dimensions were right on and it does the job. I still recommend Brassworks.

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In Holland we have a shop installing new Brasswork core, reusing your original upper and lower tank

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Been running Brassworks radiators in both my As for 15 years and never had a leak problem. Or any problem with heating.
Only problem I had was my cars ran too cool! Had to add 160 deg thermostats. . . .

Dick

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I had a Brassworks on my coupe, the only problem I had was the mounting holes were never drilled so I had to drill them out. Made me wonder how that passed inspection but it is a nice cool running radiator. I should note, the hoses fit nicely.

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Just a ignorant question. Why if the lower pipe diameter is to small couldn’t you you a muffler tailpipe expander to increase the diameter or size of the pipe with out much difficulty. I use to do on other radiators when the size was off. I can’t see why it would be any different just because it was a model a radiator .

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http://www.model-a-ford.com/LOL.gif That's funny right there because evidently you don't know either!!


.

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OK, this has been discussed on another forum already so some of this is redundant but the truth of the matter is there is way more to this than what some are giving credit for. First-off, this information is posted on their website, so a prospective buyer who is prudent will look at all the info FIRST before they place the order.

FWIW, I have looked and I'm pretty sure the original print of the water connector is NOT at the archives. Maybe you can find it, but I have the same print as Lee does for the A-8005-B Assembly Drawing, ...and he is correct that the dimensions are not listed on that print. If you will take note, he explains that he has original tanks to use as samples and he knows what the correct size is supposed to be. His problem is he can build it correctly but the hose manufacturers don't.


Now here is why this entire thread is SO asinine is that if someone really wants to have a the best experience, you send Brassworks your radiator shell AND you specify whether you are using the off-shore brand of reproduction hoses, the US-manufactured reproduction hoses, --or original Ford-made hoses. They can assemble your radiator that will give years of service where everything fits perfectly. If you don't want to spend the effort upfront, then do you really have the right to bitch, ….especially if the manufacturer is very upfront about these issues and prints them on their website for everyone to read??.
.


.

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There is a slight problem to be dealt with here, sir, and that is that Vince Falter says the original hose size is 1 3/4
http://www.fordgarage.com/pages/Radi...nstruction.htm

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The trouble with this & other 'bad part' rants is you only hear one side of the story.

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Amen!

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A person from BW is posting in the thread mentioned on another site about this issue.

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I have never read about this problem with brassworks radiators in the past. What has changed I wonder?

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Brent,

I have to agree with your statement. I visited the Brassworks shop a year ago when we were in Cental California and that is how he explained it to me. He said bring in your radiator or send it to him and he will take measurements so it will fit your car. If you prefer, he can re-core your Radiator.

David Serrano

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Someone said on FB or VFF that there was an ownership change and after that the new "management" style was introduced!!

Sounds very similar to the attitude at a well known company.

They make some very good parts BUT they are NOT open to suggestions on how to improve and correct errors in their parts.

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There have been several posts from satisfied BW customers referencing purchases made years ago. The only posts referencing recent purchases have been complaints. Obviously something in the manufacturing process has changed. I understand the company has changed hands. 1 + 1 still equals 2

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I agree.

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I have experienced the rudeness from Brassworks also. I just don't use them anymore. No excuse for rudeness.

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BW has responded to the other thread. They did a lot of research, and have made changes to their production.

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I bought a surge tank from BW. It fits between the core and the shell. Nicely made but they didn't bother to drill holes in the mounting tabs. Why would they sell an unfinished product?

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Geez, quite a few companies sell "unfinished" products, don't they?


Sheetmetal patch panels come unfinished and require shaping prior to welding in. New doors for roadsters & phaetons are only partially assembled and tack-welded together, and require fitting & finishing before painting. Wood kits come unfinished and require holes to be drilled and notches to be made. Bushings for many items in a Model-A require finishing. Brake drums must be machined before using, and brake shoes require arcing prior to using. Floor mats require trimming, window channel requires cutting to the correct length, Upholstery components like windlace, panels, etc. all require cutting to length and finishing. Fender welt requires cutting. Frame welt requires cutting & punching holes. How about radiator hoses, or fuel lines, or...?? I could go one, but so much of our hobby is designed around finishing or modifying what we purchase. Rarely is anything ready to install right out of the box or package. Now understand, it could be ….however Model-A people are too cheap to pay the price to have it come 'ready to use'!


In the case of the radiator, I guess I just don't get what folks are bitching about in this thread. There are so many components in Model-A restoration where the manufacturer will custom-make to exacting fits if you provide exact measurements and specifications of your needs HOWEVER it requires effort and pre-planning on your part. It seems most here are too lazy and are seeming expecting/demanding a little too much without the willingness to put forth a little effort.


For example, if you want a glass kit, you can order one and hope it fits (-which all of them usually don't) -or you can send the Glazier detailed measurements and they will cut each glass piece for an exact fit. The same goes for upholstery. You can have the kit supplier sew-up a generic kit and when you receive it you hope it fits, --OR you send them the measurements of your springs, panels, bow locations, etc., and they will custom sew a kit that looks perfect when installed. How about a wood kit, you can let them custom cut to your body, --or you accept the wood however it comes. As mentioned above, in the case of the radiator, if you send your radiator shell and hose sizes, you will get a very nice piece. Blaming someone else for something you were "hoping for" or expecting should have never been a reason to start this topic from my vantage point.

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Brent,
I have read this complete thread and completely agree with everything you are saying. Do remember reading a past thread that bashed over this same topic.

Where I think the difference lies........... is the point of rudeness.
Nobody enjoys spending their well earned money and being treated rudely. That seems to be a common theme here.

I have had absolutely no experience with BW and dont have an opinion either way.
Just what I am reading here.
All points seem to be valid.

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I disagree! When the manufacturer states, "Each radiator is tested with an original Ford shell to assure general fit, appropriate neck placement and accurate mounting bracket placement. " and it does not fit or is missing holes are you saying I only have myself to blame?

If a vendor advertises proper fit and finish on ANY product and it is not I guess that's my fault as well.

If I send you a Ford to restore and you send me back a Chevy I guess that's my fault as well since I expected my Ford back but did not specify it in the contract.

In this case, the manufacturer stopped all manufacture of the radiator in question, double checked his information, spent money to receive rush research documentation, found they actually were making it wrong and promised to make them correct with the correct dimensions from this point forward. That is a manufacturer I will deal with! We all make mistakes but if we follow your advice above, Mitch should have just sent all the measurements to them and had them make, and charge him, for a custom radiator as we should not expect them to provide what they advertise.

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I have a Brassworks radiator in my '29. Bought it 2 years ago and aside from a slight problem fitting it into my repro shell, it works just fine. I'm very happy with it. Ned

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I am often construed as rude & arrogant. I have no problem with that because I tell the facts and let others make decision based on their own agenda. Since we were not there to hear the tone of both sides, we are only going on hearsay as to who was rude. We live in a different society now where the customer is not always right.






Again, Mike ...we will remain friends but choose to disagree. Maybe the underlying problem is most restorers today do not realize that some items are hand-crafted and there is a human element that goes into it.


For example, I have Snyders make me seat springs and I get charged for as custom spring. While they claim they are made to original prints & samples, their 'out-of-the-box springs do not always fit correctly enough for my standards. The same applies for upholstery, wiring harness', sheetmetal. mufflers, you name it. Many of these items are claimed to be made from a print but sometimes their dimensions are not exact & universal. I guess some of this is due to the nature that many hobbyist are not restorers and do not have the experience, comprehension, nor talent to be able to handle anything outside of an exacting fit.


Does anyone not find it very ironic that there are many of us that can testify that we have not experienced a problem with BW?? My point is there are certain Model-A items that are reproduced where every one of them is poor and the quality level is always low. In this situation, there are quite a large percentage that do not have an issue with their hand-crafted radiator yet many who have never even purchased a BW radiator seem to want to jump onto the bandwagon and bitch about the quality of an item they have never purchased, ...and they are only going on the hearsay of someone who had a bad experience because he really didn't pay attention to the details when it was ordered. This just isn't right, ….and I don't care if you disagree with me or not.


Just so you know, Lee and I have exchanged several e-mails on this topic, and I have not found him to be anything other than accommodating and trying to offer what the customer needs. It sure would be a nice gesture if more hobbyists who do not have the talent nor the tools to restore would start treating some of these vendors with the same respect and try to be more accommodating to what the vendor is offering.

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Is there more than one size of outlet pipe to the block? Would it not make sense to make the radiator outlet the same size as the pipe?? Or what am I missing?

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Brent you will never qualify as a consumer advocate

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Well, I guess we should ignore this type of information (see below) if we come across it. We need to personally have a disaster with a supplier or service provider for it to matter; we cannot learn or base decisions or offer advice to others based on other people's experiences? (key extract from this link is below):

http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages...tml?1292108836


By Philip Trow on Monday, November 01, 2010 - 06:42 am:
"I got an e-mail from lee at Brassworks the other day, all he wanted to know was how he could make a better product in the future but nothing about helping me witn my current problems

Phillip -
I understand we lost your business but I am still interested in making a better product.

I re-read through all your postings again and looked at the photos a second time.
I am unable to see anything but a water stain in the photo. Another photo posted on the forum by your friend shows water stains all over the radiator.

There is no joint or seam in the Ford logo - it is just embossed brass.
Is there water coming from the Ford Logo or is this a photo provided to show discoloration of the brass?

Please advise.

Lee

I told him it was comming from the stamped ford logo

then I got this one back

Well, as I said from the very beginning, I regret you had a problem.
We have not seen this before but brass is a metal and can shear at a stress point. It did in 1915 and it can in 2010.
The radiator was tested for leaks before it was polished and painted back in the spring of 2007 when we made it.

I will look into it further to see if there is a way to prevent it in the future.

Thank you for the feedback.

Regards,

Lee

so all they care about is not helping me but getting me to help them make it better in the future not really very good business in my point of view"

http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/118802/164838.jpg

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My comment doesn't have much to do with radiators but...
This is very handy for repairing/restoring other similar era cars for which parts are not available.

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Agreed. Quite a lot of sanctimonious long winded posts on this forum putting blame at the paying victims feet. I have always believed very much so in the saying where there’s smoke, there’s fire.

Main thing I got out of this topic is one company made a product that had no issues and another one that had issues effecting a numerous amount of our brothers and sisters and was dragging its feet with a solution (and sometimes not pleasant).

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Don't guess anyone would argue with that sentence... Most of the rest of that epistle I find rude and arrogant, in addition to being wrong. If you advertise something to fit, it should do just that. Anything less than "fits" and it is no better than the crap we get out of China.

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Returned defective radiator see letter that was sent to BW about defective radiator.
Call from Brasswork 03-14-11, they said that they were building my Radiator.
Call from Brasswork 03-23-11, Billing lady asked for credit card to charge me to ship the radiator to me. I asked to speak with Lee. Lee said that I should pay for the shipping and that he is not in business to send free shipping. I told Lee that I had to pay $75 to ship a defective radiator back, and that I should be paid the $75 for returning a defective radiator and not have to pay to have it replaced. Lee said that he was not going to pay for the return shipping and the shipping of the replacement radiator. Lee said that he would just refund $595 the original cost of the radiator. He asked me for my credit card so he could put the charges back on the credit card. I said just send me a check for $595 plus the $75 that I had to pay for return shipping of a defective radiator.
He did send me a check for $595, but no money for return shipping for a defective radiator.
Attachment 362557

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Like WOW!