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Radiator questions ... I think my radiator in my 1932 v8 roadster may be on its way out . I daily drive this car so having the cooling system working really well is definitely important.
I am not sure if this is the original radiator that came with the car or a replacement. Does the original ford radiator cap only work with the original radiator from the factory or can that original cap still be used on an aftermarket radiators ??? My car has the original radiator cap in place . Is there a huge performance gap between the stock radiator that came with the v8s in 1932 in comparison to the current aftermarket radiator options?? This is my first early Ford so I’m new to a lot of this stuff. Is it possible to keep a flathead running cool without using an electric fan?? My 32 is 100% original and I usually run it with the hood off and an electric fan would stick out like a sore thumb . Is there a big difference in the performance of aftermarket water pumps vs the original factory water pumps from 1932 ?? Just trying to see what my options are to make this car better handle the daily driving it will regularly see . Look forward to your input/suggestions |
Re: Radiator questions ... 1 Attachment(s)
Starting with the water pumps, yes, there are high flow water pumps. Skip is the supplier. BrassWorks can supply an original style radiator. They can be custom built and be an exact copy of the originals. Because of the price of material and the labor involved a quality radiator is going to cost more than an aluminum one. IF you have a good radiator shop near by, they might be able to recore your existing radiator. Or if it is in good shape it may just need to be "rodded" out.
http://www.fordcollector.com/water_pumps.htm http://www.thebrassworks.net/shop/Re...ab3bba40eb617e |
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First of all make sure the radiator is filled up into the filler neck.
It takes the full 22 quarts to properly cool. Filled you will probly loose coolant out the over flow. Put a plastic or rubber hose over the bottom of the over flow tube and run it into a plastic bottle sitting on the left frame rail. Left the top of the bottle open. The coolant will get pushed into the bottle. The top being open will allow the coolant to be sucked back into the system as the engine temp go's below 155. At 155 a vacume is formed in the engine which sucks the coolant back in. The other solution is Skips 3 lb check valve on the bottom of the over flow tube. This keeps the water in below 210 degrees. The valve must be flushed with clean water at least once a year. Also the cap must seal good, a new red rubber gasket works. G.M. |
Re: Radiator questions ... I am firmly in the camp that one does not need overflow gadgets, high pressure caps nor high volume pumps to allow your engine to cool properly.
While I have a deep respect for the rebuilding that George "Skip" Haney does, I've yet to see any difference made on a "good " engine. I have little doubt that if the engine block is not clean and perhaps the radiator plugged to a degree, his high volume pumps along with "gadgets" may aid in masking the real issues. As it sounds like your engine, etc. is "good" I would suggest getting your radiator cored. I've have heard the "reasonably priced" aluminum radiators are "reasonably decent" in quality. So, if "decent" is what you are happy with, go for it. Otherwise, spend a few hundred dollars more and get the best quality available. IE: either Brassworks or a quality (re)core. I have my 39 - 40 radiators cored near me at a cost of about $500. Not cheap necessarily, but they are beautiful, correct and very dependable. |
Re: Radiator questions ... Overflow "gagets" on non pressurized radiators IMHO is a must. This is because the water pumps push fluid thru at a fast rate and if there is the slightest restriction, fluid will go out the overflow. I have one of Skips overflow devices on my 32, 34 and a 29 Packard. Cured loss of fluid on all and temp stays where it should be. I will say that age and exposing to salt causes the fins to corrode around the tubes and lose conductivity. New cores are a good thing also. I also run thermostats in my cars.
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Re: Radiator questions ... You might also take a look at US Radiator as I believe they are in the L.A. area. They have both aluminum and copper/brass radiators. If you want a quality recore call Beko radiator in Concord, California, Ph# 925-671-2975 and talk with Johnny. They do excellent work on recoring.
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Re: Radiator questions ... I had been wondering why there wasn’t an overflow and if I should put something on the end of the line running out from the radiator down to near the frame. I had noticed it pushing fluid out from there.
If I can have somewhere re-core the original radiator to have the cooling capacity of an aftermarket one that’d be great . Is there a specific way that I can determine if my current radiator is the original one from the factory or if it’s a reproduction one that one of the cars previous owners may have installed ?? |
Re: Radiator questions ... The way to spot an original radiator is to look at the fins, front and back sides. The back side fins will be straight. The front side fins will have a little dip in the centers of the fins between each vertical tube.
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of money. G.M. |
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I maneuvered the overflow metal hose into a mounted bottle like you mentioned . I used a bottle that is 1 qt in size . Do I need to move the bottle high enough so that the metal overflow pipe is all the way to the bottom of the bottle ? Right now the bottle is a little under under half full but the metal overflow pipe is around 2 inches above the top of the coolant sitting in the bottle |
Re: Radiator questions ... Don't know where you are in SoCal but Fontana Radiator can either rod out your radiator or recore it. They did a radiator on a '40 Ford big truck I had as well as repair and rework the radiator on my '39 p/u. I'd give them a call. JMO
http://fontanaradiator.net/ Phone: 909-822-8737 | Toll Free: 800-430-7234 | Fax: 909-854-3970 E-mail: [email protected] Fontana Radiator 17635 Arrow Blvd. Fontana, CA 92335 |
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A compression leak in the engine can push coolant. G.M. |
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Re: Radiator questions ... I hate to be contrary, but that isn't the reason that Ford used thermostats in their engines.
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Re: Radiator questions ... Went for a drive after attaching the rubber hose to the metal overflow pipe so that it’s all the way to the bottom of the overflow bottle. Ran fine on my 30 min drive to Target . Driving home after about 20 min, suddenly coolant sprayed from out the back side of the radiator cap all over my windshield/cowl . I stopped at next gas station and cleaned my windshield /cowl the best I could . I have a 1 qt bottle as the overflow container and when I got home it was probably more than half full of coolant
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Re: Radiator questions ... Sooo... what temp was it running? Get a cheap infrared gun at home depot and check things out. You can even move along the radiator and see if there are blocked/gunked up spots in the radiator.
Don't believe the hype. Flatheads do run cool, I run stats to keep my temp up in mn, but I ran no stats in florida, even there I never had an issue with cooling or puking coolant. Sometimes a radiator needs a recore or rodding after 80 yrs, it's not cheap but it'll be the best invest in my opinion (new or recored). You can't expect a 80+ yr old radiator to preform like a new one. A nice clean block helps a ton too, which can be done fairly well by removing the heads. But if you still don't believe me that a flathead can't run cool by design :)... do a search for Ol'Henry here, he drives his flathead up and down mountains for hundreds of miles. :) or maybe them moonshine runners. If your running a basically stock motor, remember the coolant will find it's level. It will expand and if your not overheating then don't overfill it or keep filling it to the top. Don't trust the gauge. What's nice about the infrared temp gun, you can check your motor against the dash gauge for accuracy or tell when your grilled cheese is done. Might work on a girlfriend or wife also, but I'm not encouraging that. . |
Re: Radiator questions ... Thanks for the advice Tinker . My roadster doesn’t have a working temp gauge so I’m gonna buy the infrared gun so I can get a good accurate reading . I agree , if this is an original radiator I will have it re done, if it’s just some aftermarket one that some previous owner installed I think I will not bother re-doing it and just get a brand new one.
Anyone have any suggestions on a good brand of radiator cap that has a good seal , I looked over the current radiator cap and it looks to be an aftermarket one done to look the same as the original |
Re: Radiator questions ... I can't help you with the rad cap, not sure if they pressurized them in 32? My model a wasn't but my 36 is a 4# cap. As JSeery mentioned Brassworks is really a fine product if you go aftermarket.
I recored my 36&38 and holding okay so far. But for me it wasn't a whole lot cheaper then a new brassworks. Just a decision that I made to keep most of the originality as I could. Find a very good shop if you do. Also I believe the whole front end is setup off the radiator, at least in 36/38 it is. So might be important to research the right move. . |
Re: Radiator questions ... On my 32, I run a 284 cubic inch 42 Merc engine - with lots of performance mods and therefore probably twice the original horsepower (which means about twice the heat). I had my stock 32 radiator recored (expensive work) - but I wanted the exactly correct tanks, sides, etc . . . so I got what I wanted, but it was about $900 to do it. I have updated water pumps from Skip - great product if you're running a 37-48 engine. I'm not aware of any special pump impellers for the earlier "water pump in head" engines - and the later 49-53 pumps typically had good vanes/impellers anyway. With his pumps, a LOT of water moves through the radiator and it will overflow with a stock cap and it filled like one would think it needs to be filled. So - I don't fill it all the way up and I let it seek the right level itself . . . seems to work fine. The alternate approach would be to get the original radiator cap to tightly seal and use that little in-line pressure widget that Skip sells - along with an overflow bottle. And as others have said - you can't go wrong with the guys at Brassworks - top notch products and workmanship.
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Re: Radiator questions ... As a suggestion, take some good pictures of your radiator, top tanks, side sheet metal, etc.. This will help us tell you what we think you have (original or repop). You should NOT need an electric fan - the stock 32 fan will move a lot of air. Also, you mentioned that you are having issues - be specific as to exactly what they are? Is it an overheating issue at idle, going down the road, puking water, leaking . . . all of the above???
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Re: Radiator questions ... 2 Attachment(s)
Here’s an overhead and side shot of my radiator
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Re: Radiator questions ... Being fairly new to early Fords myself, I took some advice and am still in the process of cleaning out the old sand casting that was left in the coolant passages of the engine block. My radiator blew last year. The original had been replaced in 2003 by BrassWorks. I went to BrassWorks again for the new Radiator I’ve tecemtly installed; beautiful, top notch work. I wanted to be sure the money that was spent on the new Radiator doesn’t blow again..
I couldn’t believe all the old stuff that I have vacuumed out of the block. It’s not over yet. I still need to flush it with something, probably vinegar and water mix also recommended here on the Barn. |
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Did brassworks re-do your original 1932 ford radiator? Or did you buy a new unit from Brassworks ? What are you running for motor? I was curious if the NEW brassworks unit has the top and bottom outlets placed in the same locations/angles as stock. That is part of what has me debating on re-doing my radiatior. |
Re: Radiator questions ... I’m sure my block is probably nasty . I may have to clean it out like you did prior to installing my new water pumps /radiator
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Re: Radiator questions ... The top tank appears to be original. As for the core, it could be original or not as it is the front side of the fins that distinguishes an original core, not the back side (see my earlier post).
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Re: Radiator questions ... Thanks David , let me see if I can get a picture of that front side
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Re: Radiator questions ... So are there specific points I should point the temperature gun at ??
I’ve never used one of these before . One thing I did notice when I was pointing it at various areas on the heads is that it was hottest when pointed near the edge of the spark plugs. I’m assuming that’s due to it being recessed , compared to pointing it on the actual head surface . One thing I did notice though is the highest temps registered were on the last spark plug closest to the firewall of the engine Once I know where to point it specifically I will chart the temps and post them here After seeing some of the guys posts on here about clogged water jackets and stuff built up inside the motor I wouldn’t be surprised if I have some leading to higher temp. I have a pair of Skip Haney’s water pumps but they aren’t installed, I just got them. I think I may freshen up the motor internally so I figured makes more sense to wait till after that to install skips pumps and a fresh radiator to not let all the crud go into it. I only have the original temp gauge and it doesn’t work. I’m gonna install a set of vintage Stewart Warner’s when the motor is redone. |
Re: Radiator questions ... The rear of the flathead is a weak spot. the area things settle, rust etc...
Think about a river? How does it flow? The back of the block will always be the hottest till someone makes a head with a rear exit. Why cleaning out the rear of the block is necessary. Worse in the early blocks and a mystery to me that the went back to it on later blocks... there was a reason why the center outlet happened. Check your rad for blockage. Run it all along the rad. Should be clear real quick. |
Re: Radiator questions ... Oh and had a question:
IF I do have a stock radiator , can it be redone to have similar cooling capacity of the walker or brassworks models? I live where it’s hot so I usually go for the best cooling radiator possible to try and lessen the chances of it running hot. |
Re: Radiator questions ... How many mins after firing it up should I take the heat measurements?
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Re: Radiator questions ... Simple search on recores and maybe a request here including area. Hope you can find someone that can do it. Brass works puts out a fine product.
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All the time your running it. |
Re: Radiator questions ... Stick a temp gauge or 2 in it ! Don't chance it . A temp and oil pressure gauge are mandatory for healthy life , both you and your motors .
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They did some work on a radiator out of a '40 Ford big truck I used to own as well as reworking the outlets on a '39 Ford p/u. I was very happy with the work they did. fontanaradiator.net 17635 Arrow Blvd, Fontana, CA 92335 (909) 822-8737 |
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as is mentioned above, you should become familiar with the time it takes to warm the motor up. take temp readings constantly. every few minutes check both heads separately. they can read different. take it for a ride, check it again... run it a little harder, check it again etc! I'm not sure how the "stock" setup works with the 32. in my car I ran a 32 radiator that had the original cap closed and a neck added to the back of the tank for a light pressure cap. I have a mostly stock 8ba in it. I constantly had problems with the tanks developing pinholes and foaming out of them. found the cracks in the exhaust ports were causing the foaming when I pulled it to rebuild the transmission. i replaced my radiator with a walker and it's been great so far. not the most original looking but it works well. runs exactly where my thermostats are. evaluate the tanks first. if they seem good and solid find a reputable shop that has done them before to clean and flush. |
Re: Radiator questions ... Even with a laser pointer, it is hard to know exactly where the IR sensor is looking, because the pointer is an inch or more off center of the sensor. Temperature on the heads will vary all over the place. I check the heads right just under where the radiator hose connects, but the most stable indication is the top of the radiator core right under each hose connection; that will be pretty close to the temperature of the water coming out of that head. Then I check it on the core right above where the bottom hose picks up.
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Re: Radiator questions ... The radiator in post #22 is a late model radiator.The fins go from tube to tube. Early type radiators the fins slipped over the tubes .The tubes where more round and the tubes went from side to side. Early radiators took less force to push the water thru the core. All the pumps had to do was get the water up to the top of the radiator and gravity took over. Modern radiators are a complet different design for water flow and cooling. Modern Alum core radiators take about 12 lbs of pressure to force the water thru the core. The basic ford pumps will not do this so the water is being sucked at bottom of the radiator-The reducted pressure causes the water boil.
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Re: Radiator questions ... The brassworks radiators are fabricated with the fins that slip over the tubes and tubes are bigger than than alum cores. The narrows tubes keep the Reynold number about 4000 to 5000- this causes turbulence in the tube and increases cooling. If you go to a modern radiator than go a complete system "closed loop" with expansion can.
36 fordguy |
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