Ardun Heads
 

Does anyone know or understand why Ford did not continue
with the Ardun heads?
I have not found any info on the net so far
Best

Re: Ardun Heads
 

Quite a bit of Ardun history here:

https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showt...6829&showall=1

Re: Ardun Heads
 

I doubt Ford had any interest in or connection with the ARDUN heads. There would be no practical reason to do so. The flathead was well outdated by then (1947), with its small bore and long stroke, three main bearing design. Cars were becoming heavier and trucks bigger. It made more sense for car companies to just design engines with more cubic inches (like the 337 Lincoln/truck engine) than go the expense of adapting an unproven, unreliable, complicated aftermarket setup.

Re: Ardun Heads
 

Please remember both Chrysler and Ford used hemi combustion chambers in WWII aircraft engines. Since England received the majority of the Ford result, called the GAA tank engine, there is a chance Duntov saw those chambers during the war. The GAA engine was far advanced for the time, some can see parts if the design well in to the 1970's.

Re: Ardun Heads
 

Plus Chrysler had an experimental hemi head running on their flathead six around 1946 or '47 so it's doubtful that they copied Duntov's design. Their first hemi V8 came out in the fall of 1950, so with the amount of lead time needed, they must have had their design done before the ARDUN came out.

Re: Ardun Heads
 

Having had a lot of personal experience with trucks in my own business, I would say that Ford Motor saw no need for a larger engine than what they were producing in their basically light duty truck line. Ford and Chrysler preferred to stick with the light duty market that they had built a nitch in since the early '30's, building nothing bigger than 2 ton trucks whereas GM had it's GMC line for large trucks.
Ford did not enter the large truck market until '48 when they redesigned their entire truck lineup, coming out with the BIG Job F800's with the big Lincoln V8, making them trucks in lieu of glorified cars.

Re: Ardun Heads
 

Very simple answer Ford could not continue on something they never tried. The ARDUN conversion was designed in 1947 by George Kudash who was employed by the ARDUN Engine Co.
However there was no need to even consider the ARDUN conversion due to the fact the larger Lincoln Flathead solved the problem of more power and torque needed in the larger Ford trucks being built at the time.

Re: Ardun Heads
 

Timing as they say, is everything. The C&T Ardun was really coming into its own right about the time that the flatheads were being overtaken by the growing number of overhead-valve engines coming from the OEs. The flathead faithful were still out there, as were the Ardun heads, but the heads became even scarcer.

To convert today with the new Ardun kit is $14K just for the parts with you supplying your own Flatty.

Re: Ardun Heads
 

Re: Ardun Heads
 

Some very good responses. In my own reading the need for more power came from
the English market and the "trash truck" Fords engine was not powerful enough
so Ford contracted with Duntov to build the Hemi heads. Like was mentioned by
others the 337 Lincoln was the answer.. I don't think any of the American
Automotive companies had a OHV engine before 49.
And of course the "Hemi" was first used by the "Pipe" car company of Holland in 1905..
Just seemed that a bolt on Hemi head would not change the engine market for that time
Like many developments of the automobile, the facts are sometimes lost in time
thanks for you input...

Re: Ardun Heads
 

Chevy has had overhead valve 6's since 1928. I don't understand why Ford stuck with such an out of date flathead design!

Re: Ardun Heads
 

Believe it or not Chev had an OVH in 1917 Chev D series & it was a V8 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Series_D

Re: Ardun Heads
 

To the best of my knowledge, Ford didn't contract to build the Ardun and had nothing to do with it's design or production. The same is true of Chrysler and their Hemi that followed.

Plenty of folks seem to believe that the Ardun was the first Hemi design - therefore Chrysler must have copied it. This is very far from the truth - as a hemispherical chamber design goes back many decades before the Ardun heads were designed. In the end, the Ardun heads were a case of too little, too late . . . all the major US manufacturers were already heavily involved in their own OHV V8 designs, with Cadillac and Olds being the first to the table.

Also, the Ardun heads were an aftermarket product from day #1 - so the chances of any of the Big 3 manufacturers picking up a product like this (regardless of capability) - was pretty much slim and none. Detroit was not waiting around for the Ardun to be built - they were heavily under way with their own designs by the time the Ardun was designed and manufactured (at least on the GM and Chrysler side of the business).

Re: Ardun Heads
 

"...Ford contracted with Duntov to build the Hemi heads." Wrong info!! Ford DID NOT contract with Duntov! Whoever started this myth did not know what he was talking about.

Re: Ardun Heads
 

Furthermore overhead valves go way back and believe it or not Dusenberg used roller rockers in the early 20s.

Re: Ardun Heads
 

Buick used overhead valves from day one.

Re: Ardun Heads
 

Myth's.. Some of which are so entrenched in people minds that they never seem to go away. As to why Ford stayed with flat heads, long after almost every manufacture, save Chrysler, had gave up on the side valve engine at least ten years earlier is most likely a matter of economics. The flat head Ford was a very reliable, inexpensive engine, ergo the SBC. Through out the life of Ford flat head, Ford made improvements to the design, maybe minor, but there were many, improvements, as we all know.
Overhead valve engines have been around since the early teens, Chevy had a V8 in 1917, Pontiac had one in '34, it only lasted a year and most of them were recalled by the Factory..
A lot of the big trucks, International for one, had huge overhead valve six cylinder engines in the 1930's. Several of the Nash engines of the '30's were overhead valve with dual spark plug ignitions..

Re: Ardun Heads
 

Don't forget Marmon's aluminum OHV V16 from 1931. Also, Cadillac had an OHV V16 in the early 30s. It then came out with a flathead V16 later in the 30s.

Re: Ardun Heads
 

Don't forget the millions of Chevy "stovebolts" produced before 1949

Re: Ardun Heads
 

A sales brochure for the Ardun conversion of a Ford 24 stud flathead motor.
Bill Monzo

Re: Ardun Heads
 

And here is what the original/real brochure really looked like . . . in true 'Hotrod Colors' - black and red baby! I am fortunate enough to have an original document - something about anything related to Ardun just seems to capture my fancy. I don't even remember where I found it . . .

Attachment 341184

Enjoy!
B&S

Re: Ardun Heads
 

And here is something else fun (at least I think so). It is an original lid from an Ardun shipping crate.

I wish I had the whole crate, all I have is the lid . . . but it is something kind of special and cool to me (I guess I'm a bit nuts hugh???):

Attachment 341186

Re: Ardun Heads
 

That would be on the wall in my living room if I had it! Couldn't you afford a frame?:D

Re: Ardun Heads
 

Good idea! Maybe I'll make one wall of my home a vintage racing and Ardun wall - that would be kind of fun! :)

Re: Ardun Heads
 

Having never seeing an actual disassembled unit or full schematic I'm curious. Seems the conversion had to use the original valve openings bushed as valve pushrod guides obviously using the same cam pushing on the conversion valve pushrods to operate rockers on the Ardun heads operating the conversion overhead valves opening into the hemi-head?

Re: Ardun Heads
 

Yes except the valve holes are not bushed. Often, the valve holes have to be ground to allow for pushrods clearance. The pushrods are held in place by the special Ardun lifters and rocker arms.

Re: Ardun Heads
 

Ronnieroadster, do you know how long spark plugs should last on a normally aspired ARDUN where the plugs holes have been modified to place the spark plugs at the dome rather than being recessed?

Re: Ardun Heads
 

From my experience spark plugs will last a long time. Now that I use the longer reach plugs I find there's no indication of fouling. The ignition system I used for the old tunnel fire and now the long reach plugs is a simple Pertronix conversion. For the street and setting the 225 MPH ARDUN record at Bonneville this year the Pertronix works perfectly.
Ronnieroadster

Re: Ardun Heads
 

Thx, , informative & interesting. I'd love to get the new Ardun conversion kit for my '35 with an 8BA but @$14K too rich for my blood. But very cool

Re: Ardun Heads
 

Consider that just a start! By the time you get all the other things you need (just parts) - even for a naturally aspirated engine, then another $5 - 7K.

Now think about a cool 'Big SCoT' repop blower, aluminum oil pan, special water pumps . . . whups, there goes another $15K.

But hey . . . if they were cheap, easy to build and plentiful . . . everybody would have one! :)

B&S