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1940 ford with a swap from the f/h to a s/b ford i've got a nice 40 ford sedan with the original f/h engine, wiring etc....that looks like its had it. have been thinking of putting a ford into a ford (302, etc.) the original running gear (trans./rear) is good..anyone have any advice, suggestions...excluding using a chevy s/b....thanks, art.
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Re: 1940 ford with a swap from the f/h to a s/b ford I think the general comments from this forum are going to be keep that flathead. Besides I hear there are a few flathead experts up in those green mountains.
Lee |
Re: 1940 ford with a swap from the f/h to a s/b ford If the engine runs good and the drive train runs fine why not just install a new wiring harness.
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Re: 1940 ford with a swap from the f/h to a s/b ford Arther i like the 302 setup. Its dependable, low maintenace, and you cabn get parts anywhere. You ncan add air to. Marv
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Re: 1940 ford with a swap from the f/h to a s/b ford If you go with a 302 Ford, you will probably need to use a rear sump oil pan and oil pickup tube. I think the older Broncos and Econolines used the rear sump pans, or they should be available aftermarket.
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Re: 1940 ford with a swap from the f/h to a s/b ford I think it depending on what you can do yourself,or pay someone to do the work.
The frame will have to be re worked rearend change.For starters find a adpator to 302 to 40 trans,truck oil pan,rad,clutch leakage,rear spring kits,brakes,and most of all ,"do you think you can finish it." I hated my 39 was low geared 4.44 gears,trans problems. I wanted a car to drive anywhere old hot rodder i guess. I still have a flathead 8ba mercury engine,c4 auto trans,8" rear end. Didn,t like the front end so went with Heights IFS. I worked on it myself and when i wanted to.This summer after 4 years i drove it. I do like the out come but if the flathead goes,I,m some what ready for a 302. The are so many unfinished cars and trucks out there. |
Re: 1940 ford with a swap from the f/h to a s/b ford 4 Attachment(s)
I agree with Grandadeo that you'll get some of the best support on this forum to keep you Ford flathead powered. At least yours came with a flathead. My latest project came with yet another "alternative" engine... see attached... yeah, it's a Desoto Hemi. It does look like I'll be able to switch mine to a 5 spd trans and parallel leaf spgs with late model rearend WITHOUT splitting the wishbone on the front. It also seems to me that any flathead chassis, 35-40, can install a 5 spd behind their flathead without splitting the wishbone. If there is much interest, I can share some of the details.
Good luck and enjoy pursuing your project, regardless of the avenue you choose. Having fun with old cars and sharing them is the name of the game. Al |
Re: 1940 ford with a swap from the f/h to a s/b ford I just put our 40 sedan back on the road this summer. It is a 289 powered car. The 289 with C4 trans and 8" mustang rear is nice-----but I would consider keeping the flathead engine if possible. It sort of depends what you want from the car.
Suspension wise, I kept the original type front suspension-----with modifications. I used a 4-bar system, with a 4" dropped axle, reversed eye spring. The secret to good ride and handling with the straight axle is a good anti-roll bar and shock absorbers. After some testing, I used shocks with 3 compression and 6 rebound. Gave a good ride even on rough roads. The original rear suspension needs some help-----either parallel leaf springs or coilover help to give the topheavy sedan better corner control. An antiroll bar is essential on the back and once again, shocks are the key----3 compression and 6(or 7) rebound really helps. If you are OK with a standard shift, the original column shift transmission is fine. The same for the rear end except a 3.54 or 3.23 ratio is much better than the original 3.78. The wiring needs to be changed and a 12 volt system with alternator is even better. |
Re: 1940 ford with a swap from the f/h to a s/b ford Did you need to modify the fire wall to install the 289/C4 combo?
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Re: 1940 ford with a swap from the f/h to a s/b ford I have a 80 year old neighbor with 11 '40 Fords, the running ones are all powered by flatheads. He is a diehard Ford guy and there is no way he would ever contaminate a Ford with a Chevy engine. Ever since I have known him he has wanted to build a ’40 Ford with a small block Ford in it. For ten years now he has made me crawl under every ‘40 Ford we see with a small block Ford in it to check if the stock front axles are still there, 90% of them are not. They are usually converted to independent front suspension to clear the small block Ford’s oil pump which hit’s the front cross member, even the ones with the rear sump Bronco oil pans. The oil pump still hit’s the front cross member with the Bronco pan. Ford moved the sump on the Bronco pans from the front to the rear to clear the Broncos front axle. From what I understand if you use the Bronco rear sump pan and trim away part of the firewall you can get a small block Ford in there with the stock axle.
I have looked at every '40 Ford with a small block Ford in So Cal and I have never seen one with a small block Ford, a stock front axle and no cut firewall. The only solution my neighbor came up with was to buy a dry sump oiling system that has a belt driven oil pump mounted off to the side of the engine. It is suppose to fit in the ’40 but he has never installed it yet. Over the years, Frank Oddo used his ‘40 Ford with a small block Ford for many of his articles in Street Rodder Magazine. Here are a few of the magazines that mention trying to install a small block Ford in a ‘40. May, 1975 Street Rodder pg. 71 Dec, 1991 Street Rodder pg. 190 March, 1995 Street Rodder pg 112 |
Re: 1940 ford with a swap from the f/h to a s/b ford i have a 40 coupe
with a 302 and a automatic trans still has a axle.. but has been changed to a 4 bar front.. had to cut the firewall.. no way around it. |
Re: 1940 ford with a swap from the f/h to a s/b ford I have been dreaming about installing a Dura max diesel with an Allison transmission into an old Ford. It may cost too much so I have an 89 Olds engine and transmission that may work. It is a transverse engine but if I am careful I will not have to Cut the fenders and frame up too much.This will give me front wheel drive and I plan to mount the old Ford front axle in the back and have four wheel steering.
I think I will be able to get big bucks for it on E-bay after the project is complete. There are a lot of Fords that have not been molested .After I sell the one with the Oldsmobile engine I will be able to by another unmolested old Ford and go with the Duramax Project. I may be able to install the four wheel drive. It is going to be a lot of work but I think will really have something when I am done. I really hate the saying put a Ford in a Ford. This trite saying was started by a Ford Engine re-builder and now the street rodders feel they must put a Ford in a Ford to be cool. A lot of people have told me not to ruin a good old Ford. They say that I should keep the old flathead and go with a better breathing system and maybe an overdrive unit. They are crazy. |
Re: 1940 ford with a swap from the f/h to a s/b ford I put a 289 in a '40 Ford back in '67 and didn't cut anything! Back then you couldn't buy anything to put a Ford in a Ford. I made my own oil pan with rear sump and raised the front of engine just enough to clear the front crossmember. Also put open rear axel under it using the stock '40 suspension. I built the car in '64 with a 283 sbc in it as that was the thing to do then. It ran alot better with the 289 in it! I ran the crap out of it for years with no trouble! Sold it in '88.
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Re: 1940 ford with a swap from the f/h to a s/b ford Quote:
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Re: 1940 ford with a swap from the f/h to a s/b ford Sturgis 39,
Go screw up some old Chevy or some other crappy old GM car! |
Re: 1940 ford with a swap from the f/h to a s/b ford This is not intended to be unfriendly, angry, argumentative, exclusionary ... just a reflection of what the Ford Barn Early V8 site is supposed to be according to Ryan. If you do an internet search, you will have a hard time finding another high-quality Early Ford forum that welcomes performance FLATHEADS as well as original cars/engines.
The HAMB is a terrific site, and Ryan specifically welcomes post-flathead engine interests to that forum. He's pretty clear about this being a flathead site. ( ... many of us have interests way beyond flathead Fords, BUT this is about the intent of the forum and the group it's intended to serve, not about me, me, me ... ) Here are his words: Originally Posted by Ol' Ron I just got an email explaining the intent of the NEW Ford barn. AS I understand it we can only discus STOCK Fords with NO modifications, as this would be a HotRod. Hot cams, better ignitions, milled heads, etc is tabo. How about better breaks, radial tires. So The New Ford Barn is for restoration only? That is not at all right... We aren't changing the direction of the Ford Barn. While the place focuses on early restoration stuff, we welcome Early Ford performance modification theories... I think what you probably got was something related to the street rod forum being gone. The one change we have made... Stuff like putting a SBC in a '40 Ford won't be covered here. So, are we cool? Any problems? This sound good? Essentially, we don't want the content of the Ford Barn to change at all from what it was... __________________ Ryan Cochran - www.AtomicIndustry.com More ... At the time, I was really worried about all of my buddies on the HAMB over running the joint with traditional hot rods and customs. You know, stuff like blown Cads, hemis, and Olds motors stuffed in early Fords. That kind of content is more appropriate for the HAMB. ... Hell, I have a '38 coupe with a 424-inch Reyher Morrison Small Block in it. Hot Rods are my deepest rooted passion. However, early fords with traditional overheads like Cads, Olds, Chevs, etc... get more appropriate coverage on The Jalopy Journal. It's not a "can't we all get along deal" at all. To me, it's more appropriate for the Ford Barn to focus on Ford only stuff. In the past, the Ford Barn has mostly covered early Ford restoration and performance improvements... There have been a few side bars here and there covering Hot Rodding and I think that's cool too. I'm sure there will be some overlap between the Ford Barn and The Jalopy Journal. My goal here is to keep the Barn pure... as it has been... I don't want to change the content of this joint at all. I do, however, have the HAMB/TJJ to contend with. See, the HAMB/TJJ is the largest hot rod publication in the world. Over 50,000 people view that site a day... and now that I own the Ford Barn (and especially now that it's public), many of these people are going to start checking out this site. My goal is to make sure this added traffic doesn't change the essence of the Ford Barn. That's all. Ron, you can post about anything you like. I know your history. __________________ Ryan Cochran - www.AtomicIndustry.com |
Re: 1940 ford with a swap from the f/h to a s/b ford I'm doing a 40 sedan, it will have a Flathead with a c4 and a fairlane rear. I couldn't bring myself to cut the beautiful firewall after all these years. There is a lot of after market parts for using an automatic trans, and an open drive shaft & diff., and a flattie makes enough power & sounds cool. Thanks to George/Maine, I'll be using a mustang 2 IFS.
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Re: 1940 ford with a swap from the f/h to a s/b ford If this site realy went to all stock it would be very dull.It would be about wipers,oil,and ,my car won,t start.
I can say one thing people know where to find and answer. |
Re: 1940 ford with a swap from the f/h to a s/b ford My 40 sedan has a 289 in it, the original firewall is intact(no cutting), and the front axle is a dropped 4" unit. It did require a custom oil pan with a true rear sump, the engine is mounted a little higher than standard due to the oil pump----I also needed the rear sump for cross-steering clearance. I have one inch of clearance between the engine and firewall but have no space for a mechanical fan with the thick radiator core. Thus, a electric pusher fan is required. If you used a thin aluminum two core radiator, you could get a low pitch mechanical fan in---I just didn't choose to do that. If I can figgure out how to post photos, I will do so----help?
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Re: 1940 ford with a swap from the f/h to a s/b ford 3 Attachment(s)
Hopefully this will work.
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Re: 1940 ford with a swap from the f/h to a s/b ford Quote:
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Re: 1940 ford with a swap from the f/h to a s/b ford Sanborn,do you have the short w/pump,I can't tell in the pic?
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Re: 1940 ford with a swap from the f/h to a s/b ford Yes Milt, it is a short pump using aluminum GM type pulleys. Thanks for the comment on the car, it's a "Resto Rod" similar to yours except I used the original beauty rings and Deluxe hub caps.
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Re: 1940 ford with a swap from the f/h to a s/b ford I have a '70 302 in my '36. Had to cut the firewall, and actually replaced it with a Bitchin Firewall. I wish now we had just modified the stock firewall instead but at the time, that was the best way we knew how. I also run the 289 waterpump. The two '36s we are building now are both Flathead though.
http://www.hotrodhucksters.com/chad/36/plugwires.jpg |
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I've been dreaming about transverse mounting a Flathead V8 engine in a '80 Honda Civic. I would bring the six individual exhaust ports straight up and out through the hood like little exhaust stacks. Maybe make some wheel adapters to use '35 wires and white wall tires, front and back. Attach flathead V8 emblems everywhere and paint it with black enamel. Sort of make it a a little retro/ratrod Honda. Unfortunately, I woke up and realized my wife made me get rid of that old Honda Civic several years ago. Bummer!! |
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Re: 1940 ford with a swap from the f/h to a s/b ford Chassis Engineering Inc. out of West Branch Iowa,.. makes a complete set up for this conversion,.... and most of it is bolt in.
http://www.chassisengineeringinc.com/ http://www.chassisengineeringinc.com/page53.html http://www.chassisengineeringinc.com/page54.html http://www.chassisengineeringinc.com/page62.html We used this stuff on a couple 40' Fords,.... There stuff is top notch, and very well engineered. Give them a call. |
Re: 1940 ford with a swap from the f/h to a s/b ford Quote:
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Re: 1940 ford with a swap from the f/h to a s/b ford Milt, I am using a Milodon "short" , high flow pump. What I did was to fabricate the air conditioner compressor and alternator mounts, then go to our local oval track speed shop and start looking through pulleys. I found a bottom pulley that lined up and then chose the top pulleys to get a good 1 to 1 ratio. The pulleys are aluminum which allows some minor machine work to get perfect alignment. Plus, most oval track shops also carry the "back spacers" in .030", .060" and .090" for both top and bottom pulleys to get the alignment close. Opps, I forgot to add, the harmonic balancer is an inexpensive, aftermarket unit the has both standard Ford AND GM bolt patterns---I sorta cheated on that one.
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Re: 1940 ford with a swap from the f/h to a s/b ford Al, your purple 40 pickup has a SBF, and the firewall is uncut, right? Still has the beam axle, and you use a shorty filter, right? I had recessed the firewall on my 40 to fit a Y-block with the original tranny, so when I put the 302/C4 with Bronco pan in it, all was well; the wishbones were dropped but uncut.
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Re: 1940 ford with a swap from the f/h to a s/b ford George, you're giving away all of our secrets!
BTW, I finally got time (and figured out HOW!) to bolt my 5 spd trans mount to the chassis today. It is bolted tight and I have clearance everywhere, including the starter(no longer rests against steering box) and wishbone which has not been touched nor has the mounting "ball" or its mount. I'm on a beer break right now as I'm pooped from working... not like my pals visiting in Key West in their sandals, shorts, and t shirts... right George?! |
Re: 1940 ford with a swap from the f/h to a s/b ford Just a thought here fellas..... If a person used a `40- `41 front crossmember from a pick up truck you will clear the small block Ford oil pump. It is quite a bit deeper than the passenger car version. A "flatter" front spring arch is all that's needed to get the ride height back to normal. I think I have an extra one I could part with if someone were interested.
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Re: 1940 ford with a swap from the f/h to a s/b ford If I remember correctly, not all pick up frames had the deeper crossmember; I've had both; CW had it that the 40-41's with a six cly had the deeper one. with my second 40 pickup I had to recess the firewall and jack the front of the Y-block up to clear the cross member, this even with a truck pan, and I still had to notch the front of the pan. Had to mill a carb spacer 10 degrees to level the carb! When I swicthed to the 302/C4 I placed it as far back and low as I could, and it handled sweet!
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Re: 1940 ford with a swap from the f/h to a s/b ford Some more tips that may or may not help with a SBF in a 40; the bellhousing , flywheel, and converter from a V8 Mustang II is much smaller than any other, and may help with firewall/floor pan clearance. I believe you can buy aftermarket "short" waterpumps and crank pulleys. Also, for general info, the tranny pan on a C4 Mustang II is deeper, with more capacity. The oil pans on 79-90 full size 302 and 351s are similar if not the same as the bronco pans and are a dime a dozen (well, plentiful at least!) Depending on the years, left or right discharge waterpumps are available new, and cheap. Good luck!
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