Need a 4 speed synchronized truck tranny
 

Hello all,
I have a 1950 stock F 2 flathead V8 with 4 spd straight cut gears. It was our family farm truck and got jammed around too much I'm afraid. It just does not want to down shift - double, triple clutch no matter. What year did 4 spd synchro trannys come out and will it bolt up to existing clutch housing? What are they named? I really want to hang on to this truck and be able to drive in traffic.

Other question: can I take the body off and put it on (1980s or later) F 250 chassis with modern engine and brakes etc? How much $$$ and grief?

Thank you!

Re: Need a 4 speed synchronized truck tranny
 

Welcome to the Ford Barn.

Your second question would best be answered by your state police, as to whether you could do it or not.

Re: Need a 4 speed synchronized truck tranny
 

In the mid 80;s Ford had a 4 spd with OD in the f-150, that's pretty easy to install.

Re: Need a 4 speed synchronized truck tranny
 

Syncro silent T98 . Good luck they are hard to find. 51 and 52 F6 with a 6 cyl i was told is the common place to find one. IHC used the same trans for a couple years. And to make it worse not all T98 are the same.
I have been looking for one for my 51 F2

Re: Need a 4 speed synchronized truck tranny
 

The F2 trannys were non-syncro, so there wasn't much down shifting to be easily had.

Attempting to use a more modern frame will introduce a variety of issues due to differences in width (the F2 was fairlly narrow), spacing (the F2 was shorter from the cab forward), and flatness (the newer frames have a kickup for the bed not present on the F2).

The other issue is your differntial. Beyond the tranny gearing, the rear gears are not intended to go fast. So in addition to a transmission change, you are likely going to need either new gearing or a rear end swap.

Anything is possible. Money, budget, and available skills are always the keys.

Re: Need a 4 speed synchronized truck tranny
 

You need to step a bit on the accelerator between double cluthing to downshift...takes some practise.
The issue you get with swapping in another transpission is that you looose the emergency brake setup.
How about the more common 3spd HD box...that one might take the emergencybrake setup ??

Re: Need a 4 speed synchronized truck tranny
 

Hello I have a big 4-speed trans out of a fire truck that I believe was a F-2 I will get a look at it and get back to you, or give me a call in a couple days thanks Bob in Illinois 815-228-3177 :cool:

Re: Need a 4 speed synchronized truck tranny
 

It wouldnt have been A T98 in an f2.

Re: Need a 4 speed synchronized truck tranny
 

Hi all; Why not a 4speed from a 60's-70's PU, very cheap and they have 3 syncros. they can have double drilled trans pattern and will fit a 49-53 flathead car bell housing. Right fellows? Newc

Re: Need a 4 speed synchronized truck tranny
 

I learned to drive in a 52 F3 and it does take a special touch but it can be shifted up or down with minimal clash when you get used to it. These transmissions are still easy to find for parts. Folks take the half bell off and throw the rest in the junk heap. With the right tools, they are easy to overhaul.

I was a KS farmboy myself a long time ago. I liked the F1 with the 3-speed but the old F3 would pull a full size bull or a large full water tank.

Re: Need a 4 speed synchronized truck tranny
 

I put a T98 in my 52 F3. Bolted right in. Had to shorten drive shaft a bit. Mine came out of a 1950 F6. You can use any early T98 from 48-52. The later 53 up will not fit.

You can also use the half bell or "hogs head" and swap in a later trans like Ol Ron said or even a T5 from a Camaro. More work involved though.

Re: Need a 4 speed synchronized truck tranny
 

When I bought an AA in 1973 I was grinding a pound of gears with every shift. Old timers in town would say "you gotta double clutch that thing". I tried pushing the clutch in twice but no difference. Nobody in my world knew anything about it so I tried everything. Never got good at it and sold after 2 years. In about 92 I re-entered the crash box with a 38 tonner. Huge learning curve, still no mentors or internet. I taught myself by trial and error. I have owned maybe 12 fhv8 trucks with this tranny since. Currently own 3. Here's what I learned, and a lot of guys here grew up with these things and have way more experience driving them than I do and welcome any and all tips and advice.

Upshifting: When up to speed in first gear, release clutch, foot off gas pedal. Shift to neutral, let up on clutch.Now you predict what the lower engine rpms will sound like if you engaged second gear. It's just a brief wait til your engine slows down to it's 'second gear rpms'. At that point, quickly depress clutch and shift into second.
Downshifting: Trickier... Let's say we are climbing a hill in 4th and losing power. Same thing to get into neutral but now you have to blip the throttle to simulate what the engine will be winding up to when third gear is
engaged. In climbing a hill, especially with a load, timing the road speed with 3rd gear's rpms is a quickly changing curve. You must act quickly and decisively throwing it into third.

It's all about predicting and learning what the engine's rpms will be AFTER your shift is completed. Don't worry about ruining your gears while practicing. They are made of a high grade of kryptonite. After about 4 years with the tonner I pulled the top off the tranny and expected rounded teeth, missing teeth and metal filings half way up the box. To my amazement all teeth looked brand new. Clean, sharp, perfect. I buttoned it up and drove 5 more years as my daily driver and wood hauler. I know this thread asked about the synchro and I had a 53 that had one and it was good, but these T9s are good transmissions too and yours is already in and original. Just hoping to give you an alternative. I wish someone had explained a little bit about driving a crash box to me earlier on. OK, I think I'm done. :rolleyes:

Re: Need a 4 speed synchronized truck tranny
 

I agree with GB. You need to match the road speed with the engine rpm and the gear you want. Keep practicing. You’ll get it. ...... Mark

Re: Need a 4 speed synchronized truck tranny
 

Agree with GB and flatford8. I have a 47 tonner and if you are willing to practice practice practice then you can get pretty good at shifting these things. Even when you get good at it you will still miss it on occasion. But that's OK because they are super tough. It is super rewarding when it starts clicking and you realize you have developed a skill that many give up on.

Re: Need a 4 speed synchronized truck tranny
 

The problem with any of the original trannies that came on F-2's and larger is the rear bearing retainer, which has the trans support as an integral part (the "feet"). They are prone to cracking, and very hard to find good ones. This applies to the T98's.

With the F-2's deeper crossmember (compared to F-1's) you have a world of choices for automatics and manual trannies that would make driving a pleasure compared to the awful crashbox. I've known guys who mastered the shifting on them, but you couldn't talk while driving over the whining of the trans. In modern traffic they are downright dangerous IMO.

Re: Need a 4 speed synchronized truck tranny
 

I was researching if any states ever had restrictions on driving manual shift cars if you got your license on an automatic. I found that if one gets a CDL with an automatic, there is a restriction against manual transmissions. It used the 10 speed fuller as an example that if one is not experienced they could get stuck in neutral which means the driver has lost control of the vehicle.

Re: Need a 4 speed synchronized truck tranny
 

This is true. Shifting a semi is much like shifting a spur gear transmission, except you dont use the clutch. You have to match engine speed to transmission. And yes, you can get stuck in neutral.

Re: Need a 4 speed synchronized truck tranny
 

If the 1950 F2 is anything like my 48 F2, the rear end is still your limiting factor. The 48 has 4:86 to 1 rear. Don't matter if you have a 6 like mine or v8 you are getting the revs up pretty high by time you are over 45 ish. The pre 1972 3/4 ton rear end should be an easy swap (so I have been told) and it has 4:11 to one gears.

Re: Need a 4 speed synchronized truck tranny
 

I'm with GB, Shu, and Flatford8. I, much like GB, didn't have much direction on how to drive a non-synchro. I was 20 at the time, and got the hang of upshift relatively easily (I had/have a '45 1.5ton), but I always ground the downshift something horrible - to the point that I just wouldn't do it. I did exactly as GB did - depress the clutch twice between shifts, but it never helped, because, as he stated, the engine RPM's wouldn't match the road speed.
Later that year, I purchased a '47 1.5 ton with a '56 312 Merc and a "HD truck trans" (still haven't figured out what it is. Maybe this winter...), but still straight-cut gears. I love driving the truck, so I figured that I better teach myself how to downshift, I made some noise (and I'm sure some fine metal shavings), but after a few weeks I had it down decently.
Like said above, it's all about matching RPM/engine noise to road speed. I had a especially fun time because neither my speedo nor my tach work, so it's all by ear and feel. But once you get the hang of it, it's rather enjoyable.

Re: Need a 4 speed synchronized truck tranny
 

Oh, one more thing on it.

A lot of old-timers (or at least, the ones by me) say that you shouldn't use the clutch for anything other than starting or stopping in straight-cut gearboxes. Essentially, you slide the trans in and out of each gear, using the throttle to match the RPMs.

As far as more in depth, slide the transmission out of gear, into neutral. Bring the engine RPMs up to what you believe the next gear would be at the current road speed, then go a little bit past that point. Hold light pressure against the desired gear as the engine begins to decelerate, NOT as you are still accelerating. Once the road speed and engine RPM match, the trans should slide into gear. This is slightly easier to learn upshifting rather than downshifting, but the technique is relatively the same (though you needn't rev the engine as much when upshifting - if at all).

I can't say I would recommend learning to match speeds that way right off the bat, as it does require some sense of feel for it, but I personally found that it was easier to get the speeds matched without the clutch. On occasion, I may need to tap the clutch to help the gears get along (in my trans it always seems to be the 2-3 shift that needs the help), but that is perhaps only once every 20 shifts, be it up or down.

I am far from being able to call myself an expert by any means - I've only had them a little a year now :P - but the learning curve isn't horrible. And as it was said above, the transmissions were near bulletproof. They were made to be rode hard and put away wet. They can take the abuse ;)

Re: Need a 4 speed synchronized truck tranny
 

I can shift a crash box T9 and I still swapped it out for a T98. It's OK out on the farm but, it does suck in traffic.

I also did the Dana 60 swap. Got one from a 72 F250 with 3.73 gears. I got rid of the widow maker wheels with 34" tall rubber and used 16" wheels from a 48 F2 and tires that are about 32" tall. Good combo for me. Easy to shift and a top speed over 65. All bolt in except for shortening the drive shaft.

Personal preference.

Re: Need a 4 speed synchronized truck tranny
 

What is 'traffic'....?? OK, I'm just gloating about living on a 75 sq mile island with 5000 residents. I DO NOT drive my T9s when I go down the I-5 corridor to visit my kids in Seattle. That's the '97 with one of them auto-matic transmissions.

Re: Need a 4 speed synchronized truck tranny
 

One other point on the factory truck 4-sp's of the era (and later). 1st gear is so steep (6.4 : 1) that there's little point in using 1st except when loaded or pulling stumps. So really you're driving a 3-sp most of the time. 2nd gear in both the T9 and T98 is steeper than 1st in the 3-sp's. So another option is the HD 3-sp that was optional on the F-2/-3. It's a drop-in, just need a driveshaft change. That is the T-87 trans, not exactly common but more so than the T-98's.

Re: Need a 4 speed synchronized truck tranny
 

Must be nice GB. I have to drive my 52 on the I-10 frontage road because it's 75 MPH on the freeway. I'd get plowed as soon as I cleared the on ramp. 45-50 stop light to stop light otherwise. The T9 did suck.

Re: Need a 4 speed synchronized truck tranny
 

I bet most of the world was more like Orcas Island in 1952. All of my trucks will do 45, but that's above the speed limit here. These old ford trucks, including my 1/2 ton woodie are perfectly geared for our roads. Lots of hills, curves and DEER! But now I'm rambling off track on the synchro/crash box discussion.

Re: Need a 4 speed synchronized truck tranny
 

I have a couple of very good T98 4 speeds from '59-64 Ford trucks.
PM me

Re: Need a 4 speed synchronized truck tranny
 

I don't think the DMV or law enforcement give a hoot about what year the mechanical components of a vehicle is, it only the body and the appearance of same that means anything.
I have a '64 pickup that I put on a '98 chassis. The body is a very rare extended cab rail road truck, has a back seat, but only two doors.
Neat looking truck and a pleasure to drive with AC, PS, PB and AT.
Little tricky mounting the '64 body on the '98 chassis. Removed the '64 cowl from the belt-line down, replacing it with the '98 along with the front portion of the floor boards, extending to the front of the seat. Retained the '64 dash with newer instruments.

Foot note: I removed all of the non-sense modern electronics from the chassis. ie; navigation, anti-theft, seat belt warning, door ajar, etc., leaving all of the emission controls because the engine is fuel injected. If I had to have the vehicle inspected for emissions it would pass the CA requirements.

Re: Need a 4 speed synchronized truck tranny
 

For over ten years I drove a large International three axle truck with a 13 speed Road-ranger trans. Since the truck required a CDL I had to take a state required driving test every three years.
The 13 spd road-ranger trans did not like a clutch, the preferred method was "speed shifting". The California CDL code requires the use of a clutch. It would usually take the CA examiner a while to note that I was not using the clutch, where-as I would be informed that I had to use the clutch. Informing the examiner that the road-ranger did not like to be clutched, usually fell on deaf ears. I would stop the truck and attempt to use the clutch, which usually did not work to well, lots of gear grinding. After a couple of attempts I would ask the examiner if I could go back to driving the truck as it was designed to be driven.
As a general rule the examiner would pass me with a very high mark, except for a comment that I needed practice with a clutch.

Re: Need a 4 speed synchronized truck tranny
 

Now that's funny. Definately not your first rodeo. The guys at FTE would love a story about your railroad truck.

Re: Need a 4 speed synchronized truck tranny
 

Really want to thank all the replies to my post. Great info! Truck project got sidelined, but now back on full front burner. Still in need of a Synchro-Silent T98 if any one has one. I have a T98-1R 9W if any one an use it... wrong for my 329cid flat 8. Are there any other tranny that will mate up to the 6 hole T8/9 bell adapter?

Re: Need a 4 speed synchronized truck tranny
 

I had the road-ranger too absolutely correct - slip it in gear

Re: Need a 4 speed synchronized truck tranny
 

Thank you for the lead!

Re: Need a 4 speed synchronized truck tranny
 

I have a F3 that was a 6 and has 4.86's. My cure was putting a AOD trans in it. I also put a 302 in it.

A lot more work, I know but, it makes the rear gear ratio 3.32.