Will not start after engine rebuild
 

I'm having trouble starting an 'A' after an engine rebuild.

Here is a list of what I have been through already:
1. Timing gear and crankshaft gear aligned correctly
2. Distributor lower shaft and upper shaft aligned correctly
3. Voltage checks:
a. 6v at both terminals of the coil
b. 6v at the coil wire on the distributor cap
c. 6v at the points
d. Spark at the spark plug connectors to the spark plugs
e. Points set at .020"
f. Spark plugs set at .035"
4. Timing set correctly - timing dimple is the only "mark" on the timing gear
5. Fuel:
a. Carburettor cleaned out twice with compressed air
b. Carburettor fixed firmly to intake manifold
c. Strong flow of fuel to the carburettor
d. GAV set correctly

There isn't even as much as a fire when cranking the engine.

What am I doing wrong?

Re: Will not start after engine rebuild
 

Gas spark and air will get you a pop. Which don't you have?? Pull a plug is it firing? Maybe it's flooded?

Re: Will not start after engine rebuild
 

If you have consistent spark at the plugs, then you must not be getting fuel. Make sure your carb float valve needle is not stuck, and that you are getting proper fuel flow into the bowl of the carb. You can check this quickly by unscrewing the bottom half of the carb, then opening your fuel valve under the dash. If you get a flow of gas that is a good sign. (You should do this outdoors, in the driveway, and only long enough to confirm flow.) Make sure your fuel line is not "pinched at the end" where it screws into the carb. Make sure the fuel line does not protrude too far into the carb at the fuel inlet port. This all assumes the carb is a stock Zenith. You could also have a plugged jet in which case you will have to investigate.

Re: Will not start after engine rebuild
 

I'm sure you are aware of two types of timing... Spark and Valve. Are your valves completely closed at the right time with the Piston? What kind of compression numbers do you have?

Frank

Re: Will not start after engine rebuild
 

yes check compression - im wondering if the valve lash isnt set right if they reground the seats...

Re: Will not start after engine rebuild
 

I did this very thing and after turning rotor to fire on #4 instead of #1 the engine started right up. And mine was also after an engine rebuild. Just a thought to look at... Larry

Re: Will not start after engine rebuild
 

After checking all the things recommended so far, remove the spark plugs and spray some starter fluid into each cylinder. Replace the plugs and start the engine. If it doesn't start or at least pop-pop-pop, you still have electrical problems, not fuel. Once the engine starts after spraying in the starter fluid, the engine should stay running, aided by you moving the spark lever down and tweaking the GAV to get the best mixture. Often new engines can't suck the fuel in enough to start up, even though everything is up to snuff. If the problem is the carb, the jiggling of the engine vibrations often frees up a stuck float valve. I have had to resort to starting fluid a couple times with newly-rebuilt engines, usually with hand-cranked Model T engines, which are notoriously difficult to start after a rebuild.
Try the starter fluid before panicking. It may take two or three applications before the engine stays running by itself.
Marshall
P.S. You won't know if the "GAV is set correctly" until after the engine starts. Each engine's adjustment is different. Be prepared to do some GAV twisting while getting the engine to idle properly and stay running. Better to be too rich at start up than too lean.

Re: Will not start after engine rebuild
 

I had a problem with an engine that wouldn't start. Long story but I eventually found it had a later B type timing cover.

http://www.fordgarage.com/pages/timingcovers.htm

Re: Will not start after engine rebuild
 

As a quick test, instead of trying to start with the spark lever up, pull it down. If the initial ignition timing has accidentally been set very retarded, this might get it back into the range where it will at least start.

Re: Will not start after engine rebuild
 

I did the same thing with a rebuilt engine. I had the cam set 180 out (backwards). Even set that way the engine would pop and backfire. I checked and checked. I stopped working on it. Two weeks later I thought about the cam, and decided to try changing it - started right-up. Good luck with your project - let us know, Bill

Re: Will not start after engine rebuild
 

Make sure your not 180 degrees out with the distributor. Frank

Re: Will not start after engine rebuild
 

"Exact" and "detailed" reasons for "won't start", after an engine is "altered" by any "unknown" engine re-builder can possibly be endless and difficult to resolve by people guessing from miles away who cannot touch, see, or hear this engine.

If I were in your situation, I would:

A. First, click on "Search" above; click on "won't start"; and read some of these responses, especially to try to narrow this problem down to either an "electrical" problem or a "fuel" problem; and,

B. Second, seek possible help from another Model A owner in your area who is mechanically knowledgeable; and,

C. Third, seek help from any responsible, "experienced" automobile mechanic, tractor mechanic, lawn mower engine mechanic, or any gasoline engine engine mechanic, because all gasoline engines are so simple for them to diagnose, and are all basically similar.

D. Won't start because of either fuel or electrical problems is so very common and an everyday occurrence for "any" gasoline mechanic.

E. If any mechanic, anywhere in the World, cannot quickly resolve "won't start", he will never be in business long ... not much different from a dentist going out of business because he cannot remedy a toothache ...... just ask around ..... people everywhere have no problems relating their good and bad experiences with others in business.

Hope this helps to quickly get your engine going.

Re: Will not start after engine rebuild
 

also some Gav's have to be opened more than others, so try opening it one full turn and see what happens because it sure sounds like it is gas related

Tinkirk/Terry

Re: Will not start after engine rebuild
 

Good Morning all...I don't see mention of a fresh condenser which could look like what is happening. Also check to see that your battery connections are good and the battery is putting out a full charge...A little holly water on the radiator can't hurt! Ernie

Re: Will not start after engine rebuild
 

Run a compression check to eliminate mechanical possibilities.
I have seen new parts that are wrong on occasion.

Start there, then go to spark,and spark timing, a can of ether will cover the volatiles.

Re: Will not start after engine rebuild
 

You say gas to the carb,now,do you get gas THROUGH the carb?Are the plugs getting wet?If you take the drain plug out of the bottom of the carb does gas run out steadily?For a full minute or two?What we have here,and is very common,are mice nests in the muffler when the car sits around for a month or two.If it can't puff the air out it can't pull the gas in.You cleaned the carb with compressed air,does that mean you blew into the openings while on the car,or did you take it apart and run a wire through the passages before blowing them out?

Re: Will not start after engine rebuild
 

I never worked on a jet ski, and two strokes don't like me, but my brother in law had one that would not start! I took off the air filter tube,put my hand over the carb throat, turned it over and it started! Don't have a clue why, we did have the choke on, but the extra choking with my hand did the trick!

Re: Will not start after engine rebuild
 

You said that the timing dimple was marked on the pulley. I assume you know the pulley goes around twice to one of timing gear. Make sure on TDC

Re: Will not start after engine rebuild
 

Also, just another humble and "simple" hint to add to reply no. 12 above:

1) If the engine re-builder is not you, and is not far away, he should have a "quick" clue to your engine problem .... that is .... if he knew what he was doing in the first place.

2) Could be worth a try to contact him prior to spending more money and spending time investigating and changing out thousands of individual Model A components and Model A parts.

Re: Will not start after engine rebuild
 

also some Gav's have to be opened more than others, so try opening it one full turn and see what happens because it sure sounds like it is gas related

Tinkirk/Terry

Re: Will not start after engine rebuild
 

Don't be thrown by the wording "set the rotor opposite #1 contact", as in this case it means "NEXT TO".

Timing pin in cam gear dimple, the rotor should be exactly as this picture.

Re: Will not start after engine rebuild
 

I understand why you said this but my brow furrowed when I read it. If the engine fires when the timing is fully advanced, there is a good chance the starter will jam and maybe bend the shaft. (Murphy says that is when it will fire)

Re: Will not start after engine rebuild
 

Above all, dont start replacing parts and taking things apart until an "expert" figures out what is wrong.

Re: Will not start after engine rebuild
 

Okay folks, time for an update:
1. I have timed it on #4, still won't start
2. I have put on a working carburettor from another Model A
3. I found that the points were not too good, so replaced them with new points
4. I have tried different GAV openings, to no avail
5. I have put a new condenser in
6. Yes, the plugs are wet
7. I tried some starting fluid, and got a small "humph" out of the engine, but still did not start

Re: Will not start after engine rebuild
 

That 'humph' may be the starter fluid igniting, or is may be the engine is kicking back due to too much spark advance. I would recheck the timing and use a light if necessary. you could pull the plugs, if necessary to get the engine to spin. Be sure to leave the pick-up for the light on the #1 plug wire. Leave the wires on the plugs laying on the head. Re-check your compression numbers...

Frank

Re: Will not start after engine rebuild
 

are the plugs new?and are they sparking
hold throttle wide open gave it just a little bit of advance start cranking for about 10-15 seconds if no pop you better go back over everything one more time
i had something like this once was pulling my hair that i don't have out finally found out the points were not opening far enough set them back to .020 and its been running fine ever sense but it was not a new motor
wish i could be there!

i enjoy trying to figure this kind of stuff out

Tinkirk/Terry

Re: Will not start after engine rebuild
 

also set your timing back as Tom post #21 shows you in the picture

Re: Will not start after engine rebuild
 

You said, "1. I have timed it on #4, still won't start"

What does that mean? You want to time it on number 1 cylinder. The front cylinder. Standing on the left side of the car the rotor should be in about the 4 o'clock position as in Tom's post number 21.

Re: Will not start after engine rebuild
 

Hooray! The car has started! We used some more starting fluid, and it finally fired up.
But....
There is a lot of popping and backfiring, and the engine wants to race. If I try and cut the accelerator back a little, the engine wants to die.
I found that the filter in the fuel sediment bowl was badly clogged. After cleaning it up, the car started without the starting fluid, but still with the racing and popping

Re: Will not start after engine rebuild
 

Whoa! What do you mean timed on #4? Go back and look at Tom Wesenberg's picture. It is taken as if you are on the RIGHT side of the car, looking down at the distributor. The rotor is pointing to #1 contact as it should, when the "timing pin is in the dimple."

Re: Will not start after engine rebuild
 

Sorry, meant to mention that the timing is back on #1 as it should be - it was just that someone suggested to try it, but it didn't work anyway

Re: Will not start after engine rebuild
 

Hooray! For your, a fast idle on a fresh overhaul isn't a bad thing! Keep after it, you have a lot of adjusting to do. Carb mixture, idle speed, maybe timing, etc.
Keep an eye on water temperature!

Re: Will not start after engine rebuild
 

I'd get a carburetor from somewhere that is a known good running part and try it before you fiddle with the ignition again. One thing at a time.

Re: Will not start after engine rebuild
 

Could it be an intake manifold leak? I had a gasket one time get a little crimped and it sounded like that--pops and backfires.

Re: Will not start after engine rebuild
 

Agree you should check for an intake manifold leak. While it is running spray some starting fluid all around the manifold gasket area. If the engine speed changes you have a leak. Make sure the carburetor to manifold gasket is good and is tight.
Popping and backfiring can be caused by the flexible wire under the movable plate in the distributor being worn or having a poor connection.

Re: Will not start after engine rebuild
 

Could be an intake valve to tight also not letting the valve close all of the way


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Re: Will not start after engine rebuild
 

Had a similar problem with a newly rebuilt engine - tried just about everything mentioned above, and it turned out the problem was the intake manifold: it was not tight. Tightened it with a torque wrench and it started right up.

Re: Will not start after engine rebuild
 

the washers on the in/ex manifold are spring steel and need to be cupped in. if you put them on backwards its very easy to crack the manifold causing leakage.

Re: Will not start after engine rebuild
 

I need to give you guys an update on this engine. We found that the coolant had mixed with the oil, so I pulled the engine out, and sent the head and block back to the engineer's shop. They checked both and found nothing: the only thing that could have gone wrong was a failed cylinder head gasket. The rebuilt engine is now back in the car, ready to get all the other bits and pieces re-attached. I'll report back once the car is running smoothly!

Re: Will not start after engine rebuild
 

There is no way for coolant to get into oil or visa versa between head and block. A failed head gasket would not cause what you found.