hard steering - radials or bias ply
 

My '34 is difficult to turn when not moving or moving slowly. I put a number of layers of polyethylene plastic sheeting under the front wheels and the steering effort is relatively easy so I'm assuming that the issue is the friction between the tires and the pavement.

I have original type bias ply tires on the car but am considering changing to radials for improved road handling but I wonder if the larger footprint of the radial tires would make the slow speed turning even more difficult.

Any ideas/comments?

Thanks

Re: hard steering - radials or bias ply
 

I have radials on my 40. It probably has the better steering gear. But the ride is great.
Dont go big on the tire size. Smaller is better. Get some catalogs from Coker and Diamond back for good information . Parallel parking is still an adventure,

Re: hard steering - radials or bias ply
 

This is why power steering was invented! Are you wanting to keep the car 100% original? Later steering gears like an F1 was a common upgrade to improve steering on the 33-34s.

Re: hard steering - radials or bias ply
 

It may have some rough bearings or stiff bushings but you can tell that by lifting the front wheels clear of the ground and feeling for stiffness. Disconnect the drag link from the pitman arm to see if there is a difference indicating stiff king pin joints or thrust bearings. If all is smooth off the ground then that may be as good as it gets.

The later Gemmer II steering gears with the rotating sector gear really made the big difference in ease of steering but in good shape, the early Gemmer gears still work OK as long as you are moving. Some have taller ratios that improve the rotational torque level of the steering wheel but there are more turns lock to lock on them.

Re: hard steering - radials or bias ply
 

My experience with manual steering, radials will be heavier to steer than bias ply tires. By harder, I mean it takes more effort to turn the steering wheel. And maybe it is my imagination but since I put steel belted radials on my 52 Merc is seems to ride "harder" as in I feel every gravel stone it hits on the driveway. Even with the pressure down in the low 20s. Maybe just my imagination or else I didn't notice the bumps when I was a kid in the 60s.

Re: hard steering - radials or bias ply
 

Higher tire pressure will make steering easier.
Bruce

Re: hard steering - radials or bias ply
 

My 34 is similar, but I figured it was because I have relatively wide radial tires on the front as compared to the 5.5" wide tires the car was originally supposed to have - lots of friction between the tire and the road. Mine are 8.9" wide. What width tires do you have? Once you are moving it steers OK. I agree that having them properly inflated makes a big difference - which makes me think it is the friction between the tires and the road. Your test on the plastic sheet would also tend to confirm this.

Re: hard steering - radials or bias ply
 

I currently have the original type 17" bias ply tires which I inflate to 35psi. The bigger footprint of the radial would seem to me to be problematic. Truth be known, I probably just need stronger arms, but my 80 year old body is tiring.

Re: hard steering - radials or bias ply
 

Have a '40 box in my '36 with 195/65/15 radials on the front and it does feel like power steering compared to the original '36 box.

Re: hard steering - radials or bias ply
 

Just finished my 32 Ford PU and have a 37 Hudson steering box with a 34 Ford pitman arm going up to stock 32 spindles. I have 500R16 Excelsior radials running 35 lbs of air with a 39 Banjo steering wheel and it turns with very little effort.

Re: hard steering - radials or bias ply
 

Regarding my '35 my only reference point is the original size and 650/16 Bias'd I had on all four vs. my new front 195/75/16 ( much like a 550-16, little taller ) and rear 215/85/16's ( much like a 750-16 ) radials and compared to the originals the radials in the stated size are easier to steer and much nicer ride and handling.

Re: hard steering - radials or bias ply
 

High caster setting will positively increase static steering effort.

Re: hard steering - radials or bias ply
 

I have a 32 and 34, both with correct tires and both steer well. If your car does not have the 15-1 gear in it, that could make it hard to steer. I believe my 32 was changed along the way since it steers easy.

Re: hard steering - radials or bias ply
 

The easiest improvement you can make is to remove all you can of the old grease in your steering box and replace it with either STP or if you are having problems with leaking box use John Deere Corn Head grease. Nothing is going to make it steer as easy as replacing the box with a 37 or later box.

Re: hard steering - radials or bias ply
 

I removed the radial tires from 3 of my cars due to hard steering.Replaced the with bias ply,the steering effort improved,but the ride and Handling has diminished somewhat.

Re: hard steering - radials or bias ply
 

I have replaced the grease in the box with JD corn head grease. Thanks

Re: hard steering - radials or bias ply
 

Did the John Deere Corn Head Grease make an improvement?

Re: hard steering - radials or bias ply
 

Really? Can you PLEASE explain how that happens? DD

Re: hard steering - radials or bias ply
 

Adding, I have JD corn head grease in the Hudson box, Took almost a full tube.

Re: hard steering - radials or bias ply
 

Sure. With caster being defined as the centerline of the kingpin (in our cars), measured in degrees from true vertical, as viewed from the side, it's the physics of "for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction"..

At zero degrees caster the spindle snout/stub will be parallel to the ground as the spindle is rotated on the kingpin. As caster is increased from zero to a positive angle, the snout is no longer moving parallel to the ground as it rotates, but is pushing down toward the ground as it moves rearward, since the kingpin is tilted. Since it can only move down as far as the tire's compression will allow, it then tries to lift the weight on it.

As the positive caster angle increases, say 3 to 6 degrees, more static steering effort is needed to push the snout down (or lift the weight), as the force and snout is pushing more vertically downward. This steering effort has to come in the form of more muscle, leverage from a larger diameter steering wheel, longer pitman arm, or power assist.

But once moving, the tire's rotation has a gyroscopic effect and as downward force is put toward the ground, the weight being raised wants to return down, the snout returns to neutral, and the steering straightens out. Right or left turn is the same, given equal caster angle on both sides.

Visualize the high caster on a dragster, more force is required to deviate the tire from straight ahead. Which is why a higher caster angle will resist drifting and road walk, but requires more input effort at rest. Of course the dragster has light front weight, and that conversely requires higher caster.

I probably omitted some variables and fine points, but that's it in a big nutshell.

Re: hard steering - radials or bias ply
 

carguybill: Did the John Deere Corn Head Grease make an improvement in the steering, as suggested by Keith oh?

Re: hard steering - radials or bias ply
 

hotrodA......I'm pretty familiar with the geometry and physics involved with MOST of what you say in your lengthy reply. I'm not understanding how gyroscopic effect of the rotating tire (as you describe it above) would have any tendency to "return a snout to neutral". Gyroscopic effect is the tendency for a spinning object to resist INITIAL movement, or change in plane...NOT to aid in returning to original position. In addition, your explanation about the spindle snout (on the INBOARD side of a turn, considering POSITIVE caster) angling more-downward toward the ground as the angle of the spindle rotation increases from straight ahead, does make some sense in that doing so, partial weight of the vehicle is being lifted. What you didn't mention is the fact that the spindle snout on the opposite spindle is angling in the opposite direction.....UPWARD, lowering part of the vehicle's weight. This action should MOSTLY counteract the steering effort produced by the lifting of body weight on the opposite spindle. I say "mostly" because you would reasonably have to consider the Ackerman effect, in that the outboard spindle won't rotate on it's king pin to the degree that the inboard spindle does, hence......less gravity-assisted vertical movement of mass.

I guess that I'm really questioning why you thought it important enough to single-out the miniscule effect that positive CASTER would have on the effort needed to turn the steering wheel on a '34 Ford at rest, especially when the original poster clearly stated in his original post that putting slippery sheets under each front tire dramatically reduced the effort necessary to turn said steering wheel. Heck, ya can't even realistically adjust the caster on these things if you wanted to. It would make more sense to suspect low air pressure. Or, how about scrub radius? A positive value makes for more steering effort....at speed. But again, trying to read into the OP's post, he seems to be referring to slow speed and parking. I'm just surmising that sometimes, some of us may not think-through how the answer we give might REALISTICALLY apply to the information requested. DD

Re: hard steering - radials or bias ply
 

I didn't notice a big difference but I was having a leaking problem and it did cure that.

Re: hard steering - radials or bias ply
 

I have a 51 pickup and just changed from bias ply to radials. There's no noticeable difference in the effort to turn at slow speeds but the difference in the ride and handling amazing.