What's the difference between these wheels?
 

Hey guys so I'm looking for some 40's wheels for my 35 coupe. I've found that there's 16", 4" and 4.5" out there besides the width what's the difference?
Will both work on my coupe and wouldn't the wider ones be better?

Thanks!

Re: What's the difference between these wheels?
 

Both will work, the difference is negligible.

Mart.

Re: What's the difference between these wheels?
 

4" wide wheels are 40/41. 4 1/2" wide are later wheels. the major difference is the profile of the wheel rim itself. 40/41 rimes have a 90% angle at the center and later have 45% angle where the rim meets the center. there are also some 3 1/2" rims made for 60 hp and the 41 4 cylinder pick up

Re: What's the difference between these wheels?
 

Thanks ��������

Re: What's the difference between these wheels?
 

Where can I find a set of these wheels with the built-in camber? :D

Re: What's the difference between these wheels?
 

No. Wheels ( if true and straight ) don't affect alignment issues.

The angle referred to is in the middle of the rim. The tire trade people call it the 'drop'. The purpose of the drop is to allow the tire changer to gain some slack when working the bead over the rim edge.

Re: What's the difference between these wheels?
 

There are actually FOUR different varieties (widths) of 16" '40s wheels that have the INSIDE nubbies to accept the factory '40s hub caps. I will show their pictures in order of width, narrowest first. DD

3-1/2" Wide....1940 ONLY, V8-60 Cars. BOTH walls vertical.

http://www.fordbarn.com/forum/attach...7&d=1414941716

4" Wide....1940-'41. Note that BOTH walls of "drop section" are vertical.

http://www.fordbarn.com/forum/attach...2&d=1474306334

4-1/2"....1942-'48. Note that INBOARD wall of "drop section" is slanted.

http://www.fordbarn.com/forum/attach...2&d=1488821504

5"....1941 Mercury ONLY

http://www.fordbarn.com/forum/attach...1&d=1453145405

Re: What's the difference between these wheels?
 

Right here 🖕🏼 Haha

Re: What's the difference between these wheels?
 

I run 4 inch rims on my front and 4 1/2 on my rear to accommodate a slightly larger tire in the rear. Hope that helps!

Re: What's the difference between these wheels?
 

V8Coopman, thanks so much!! Do the Merc wheels come in a 16"?

Re: What's the difference between these wheels?
 

As I stated in my original post, ALL of the pictured wheels are 16", including the '41 Mercs. Don't get your hopes up, though. Those 5" Merc wheels are so sought-after, and so rare to begin with (not to mention that MOST folks never knew they existed)......you'd have better odds buying a lottery ticket. DD

Re: What's the difference between these wheels?
 

Gotcha, I guess I missed that detail. Challenge excepted! It would be nice to have those for the rear.

Re: What's the difference between these wheels?
 

What hubs do you have have on your '35? Stock or?

Re: What's the difference between these wheels?
 

Stock

Re: What's the difference between these wheels?
 

Solo, the 15" x 5" or 5 1/2" wheels are a little easier to find, as they were
used on Ford 1/2 ton pickups thru 1965. In fact, the 16" wheel was an option
up thru 1965 too, but they are also rare as hens teeth to find now.

The wheels I mention above, all have the "innie" hubcap mounting nubs, so
they will accept the earlier style hubcaps. They also have the 5.5" bolt pattern,
in case you would consider running 15's.








.

Re: What's the difference between these wheels?
 

Just be aware that a 40 type wheel will not bolt to a wire wheel hub. There are little nubs just inboard of the studs that need to be removed to allow the later wheels to fit against a flat face. If you have 40s style brakes obviously the 40s wheels will fit, as they have a flat face. (The opposite is also true, you need a stepped spacer to fit a wire wheel on 40s brakes, to reinstate the missing nubs.)

Mart

Re: What's the difference between these wheels?
 

Okay so I removed my wire wheels and found these hubs in the front.

http://i63.tinypic.com/2eajv3q.jpg

Anyone know what they are off of? I assume they're not stock because there's no post.

Here's the rear.

http://i67.tinypic.com/tzlua.jpg

Re: What's the difference between these wheels?
 

The rears are stock 35 and you can see the 5 nubs just inboard of each stud. The fronts look like 40s repro drums, as the surface is flat. From the angle of the pic it is hard to say for sure from here.

On my roadster I run 40s steels on the drums like your original rears and cut/filed the nubs off to give a flat surface.

Has your car been converted to hydraulics?

The 40s wheels should fit the front but something needs to happen at the rear.

The centres of your front wires may have been bent a little out of shape from being fitted to the flat drum.

Mart.

Re: What's the difference between these wheels?
 

The previous owner said they converted it to hydraulic breaks but I thought that was just the master. I didn't realize they changed the drums too. The wire wheels that were on it were aftermarket.

Re: What's the difference between these wheels?
 

OK, to me the front hubs appear to be replacement 21A (1940-41) drums and as such not the best to be running your wire wheels on. The curved wear marks on the drum outside of each stud are likely the only place the wire wheels have been making contact (not a good situation). The later 40's wheels you're looking at work with this hub, so you're half way there in that regard. On the rear it appears you have the stock 1935 drums, which your wire wheels were meant for but not the later solid wheels. I've only dealt with this issue on the front axle, so others will have to comment on what's needed to mount solids on the rear. I do recall at one time Jimmy at Rally America (Wheelkid on the HAMB) stating that he had early replacement solid wheels that were originally made to fit/bolt onto the pre-36 rims - might be worth a try. Good luck.

Re: What's the difference between these wheels?
 

Wow: thanks to the photos. I would change the rear drums/hubs, as some folks are looking for the '35 hubs, cause they do work with Hydraulics. Then he could learn about his rear bearings, taper, and key way. I wonder if there are any Early V8ers in Martinez? Newc

Re: What's the difference between these wheels?
 

Well I guess I should have refreshed my screen before my last post to save pretty much duplicating what Mart had posted and also to learn that you aren't currently running stock wires. :eek::eek:

Re: What's the difference between these wheels?
 

Okay so are you sure that the rear drums need to be changed? It seems that most 35/36's run the 40's wheels and I've never heard of anyone having to change the hubs.

Re: What's the difference between these wheels?
 

Solo.......You state that the wire wheels were "AFTERMARKET". Yet, the pic below shows the WIRE wheels that were on the car when you picked it up. Those sure look like '35 wires to me. They would be correct for your REAR drums. By "CORRECT", those nubs on the REAR drum correctly-support the design of the center hub on each wheel. Although the '35 wires WILL bolt-on to that aftermarket front drum, that FLAT surface will not correctly support the center hub of a '35 wire wheel. The wire will bolt-on, but the center hub will FLEX......BAD!!! Never the less, I believe you're going to find that your REAR studs are too short for the solid '40s wheels, plus the fact that they will be improperly supported.

One more question......are you sure that your REAR brakes have ALSO been converted to hydraulics? Is there a hydraulic fluid line going into the TOP, REAR side of each REAR brake backing plate? DD
http://s15.postimg.org/lrx3kjtrv/image.jpg

Re: What's the difference between these wheels?
 

Okay, so yes they're wire wheels but not original wire wheels ( the ones where the wire bends 90 degrees to go straight into the wheel ) I was told these are aftermarket wire wheels and are not correct for my car because of the backspacing.

http://i65.tinypic.com/2i223ap.jpg

About the brakes not sure if they are hydraulic but yes the rear brakes have a line going into the top of the backing plate.

Re: What's the difference between these wheels?
 

Not sure what you're talking about....a wire wheel "where the wire bends 90 degrees to go straight into the wheel". The picture below is a standard, stock 1935 Ford wire wheel.

http://www.fordbarn.com/forum/attach...6&d=1478107353

The picture you showed above IS in fact, a 1939-'41 Ford hydraulic brake backing plate. DD

Re: What's the difference between these wheels?
 

Is it possible these "bent spoke" Kelsey-Hayes wheels are what you are talking about as being ORIGINAL? Their spokes DO enter the wheel hoop at roughly 90 degrees. But, these are NOT original '35 wheels. They were offered as an aftermarket accessory wheel for '35 model Fords. DD

http://www.fordbarn.com/forum/attach...0&d=1304300409

Re: What's the difference between these wheels?
 

I appoglies for my lack of knowledge. Okay so then I was speaking about the Kelsey Hayes wheels. I was just told that the wheels I had on my 35 were not the correct wheels and the spare that I have which is a Kelsey Hayes was original.

Anyways that doesn't really matter because I sold them lol. What I'm trying to figure out is which 40's style wheel I want, 16" 4.5" or the Merc 5"

Re: What's the difference between these wheels?
 

Well, good luck! The 4-1/2" wide '42-'48 Ford 16" wheels are still easily found today, and should be quite abundant in your area of California at some of the old Ford parts emporiums. But, like I indicated yesterday, those '41 Mercs aren't growing on trees, and they NEVER did. In my playing with this old junk for well over 50 years now, I have never laid eyes on a real pair of 5", '41 Merc wheels!

Just for reference, 4-1/2" and 4" on this Florida 3-window coupe. DD

http://www.fordbarn.com/forum/attach...6&d=1439229005

Re: What's the difference between these wheels?
 

Thanks! I really appreciate site you and all the wisdom. This is my first 30's ford so I don't know much about them. I just spoke with a gentlemen and I'm
Buying a set of the 4 1/2". I would really like to run some divco milk truck wheels in the back but those are just a rare as the 41 Merc wheels I assume.

Are you running radials on yours?

Re: What's the difference between these wheels?
 

The 3-window coupe above is not mine, but it IS running 5.50 R16 and 7.50 R16 Excelsior radials, tubeless .......drives and handles super! DD

Re: What's the difference between these wheels?
 

Nice!! I want to run the same combo but with a 4" drop axle, reverse eye posie in the front and rear.

Re: What's the difference between these wheels?
 

I do as well.

DD you come up with all the good stuff..

Re: What's the difference between these wheels?
 

That coupe also has a 4" dropped axle and reversed-eye spring in front! DD

Re: What's the difference between these wheels?
 

Just find curb on a wet day !

Re: What's the difference between these wheels?
 

V8COOPMAN

Oh, nice!! Maybe it's the angle that doesn't make it look lowered.

Here's a pic of the backside of the rear brakes.

http://i68.tinypic.com/35n9des.jpg

Re: What's the difference between these wheels?
 

Those are 39-48 brakes, can't say if early or late without seeing the adjusters. Do you have an emergency brake?

To fit your flat face 40s steels, you should use 40-48 hubs and drums, which will fit on your axle. If you want to retain those drums, you should cut or grind down the 5 raised nubs to give a flat surface for the wheel to bolt against. The studs will be long enough - but only just.

Mart.

Re: What's the difference between these wheels?
 

Gotcha, yes I do have an emergency brake. I'll try to find some hubs and see what they will cost to replace. Might be worth just shaving the nubs down and saving the money.

Re: What's the difference between these wheels?
 

IMHO, if you want to run '40-'48 wheels on the rear of your car, replace those '35 hub/drums with '40-'48 hub/drums instead of grinding those 5 nubs off the '35 drums. '35 rear drums were one year only, not reproduced to my knowledge, and getting difficult to find for those who own '35's and run with stock wires. If they measure less than 12.060" dia. at brake shoe contact surface you could probably sell those, buy good '40-'48 rear drums, and have money left over.
As others have already stated, your front drums look good to go with '40-'48 wheels, assuming they do not measure over 12.060" dia. in the brake shoe contact surface area.
Also, I picked up some 16", 5 on 5-1/2" bolt pattern '40-'48 pass. car style wheels, that measure 5" wide in the tire bead area. They were being used on a late '40's to early '50's pu truck that the owner was changing over to 15" wheels. I believe he said they were original factory wheels that came with his truck.

Re: What's the difference between these wheels?
 

As JM points out, hate to see any good '35 rear drums butchered to mount '40+ wheels when a ring around the perimeter of the studs will accommodate the flat mount steel wheel. A one year drum vs a six or seven year compatible drum? Those '35 drums at 1 3/4" width allow Ford wires to mount safely without adapter. Figure that. That alone should be worth something. Also incomplete is not to mention the more common 16" pickup wheels, also at 5" width with a slightly different offset and holding the '40 style caps. It did take a while to find five nice matching '41 Merc wheels while sifting out the similar pickup wheels. Stay calm and don't get carried away even though even one more common wheel variation exists but may or may not make selection more accurate. It goes well for the shopper that few seem to know about the variations of 5"-16" wheels. Way often sellers represent 4 1/2" as 5". Measure and doubt! Good Luck: Fred A