Hard to turn engine over A ford 1929
 

If I start the car in 2nd gear rolling down a hill instead od using the starter it will start imediatly, If i use the starter it harly turns and the batterycable get hot and start to smoke, I changed the starter and the battery and both battery cables and still it hardly turns over and smoke start to come from starter if i turn let it go to loong, but it still works but slovely just as the other starter that was newly overhauld and used to work perfekt weeks ago. Can it be a exchous valve that doesnt open, so it create to much compression ? its hard to hand crank when the pictons comes up .I thought aboute the bearing on axcle holding the picton rod that they might been to tight, but they are old and not touched, so probely loose instead of tight. any inputs everything have been fine until reasently it got harder and harder to start with the starter motor until almost impossible

Re: Hard to turn engine over A ford 1929
 

Sounds like you have a poor connection to the starter and or the ground. Make sure all connections are clean and tight. Also that the cables are the right gauge. If that doesn't help then I would suspect the starter.

Re: Hard to turn engine over A ford 1929
 

Re: Hard to turn engine over A ford 1929
 

Take the starter switch apart. I bet there is a short in there. If there is, it should get very hot when you try to start it.

Re: Hard to turn engine over A ford 1929
 

Jack, you are one smart cookie !!

Re: Hard to turn engine over A ford 1929
 

Do you mean thhe switch where the starter key goes ? I just had the car rebuildt to electronic ignition and had to change the pop out key switch with a modern switch made for A ford el ignition. Was driving it for a a few days after that and it worked fine, then it got harder to turn, all battery cables are new and well grounded directly to the starter and tryed 2 startermotors that should be in great shape overhauld and bought new battery, the negativ cable that goes to the starter got hot, then the starter got hot if i keept trying to start, it goes slowly around. can it be a excchause valve stuck closed so that it creates to much compression to start ?

Re: Hard to turn engine over A ford 1929
 

I think Jackson means the starter switch on the top of the starter.

It would be tough for a valve to be stuck CLOSED. If so, it would run very rough or not at all.

Re: Hard to turn engine over A ford 1929
 

It cannot run with a valve closed.
The camshaft and tappet will not allow it.

Re: Hard to turn engine over A ford 1929
 

Ok thanks I changed to a starter that was tested to work very well and same thing happend turns slow and gets very hot, I tried hand crank it feels heavy to turn special when compression builds up, but not sure how hard its supose to be turning it over.

Re: Hard to turn engine over A ford 1929
 

What size battery cables are you using?

Re: Hard to turn engine over A ford 1929
 

Pull the spark plugs out and try to turn it over by hand. Also shine a light in those spark plug holes.

Re: Hard to turn engine over A ford 1929
 

I too think we can dismiss the valve stuck closed theory too. If it were to happen, like Forever says, it wouldn't run. Might even break the cam shaft. Nasty!
If a valve is tight enough to get stuck, it will stick OPEN and that will result in no compression on that cylinder.

Re: Hard to turn engine over A ford 1929
 

Thanks good to leave out one obtion !
I will try to remove the starter switch on top of the starter and clean it well inside for durt and bad conections as well aas look for anything abnormal withe the switch.

Re: Hard to turn engine over A ford 1929
 

Watch the fan when you shut the engine off. It should rock back and forth as the engine stops. If it comes to an abrupt stop, the engine is binding up.

Re: Hard to turn engine over A ford 1929
 

Thanks thats a good tip, you guys knows a lot, I just got my first A Ford, if the fan comes to a quick stop could it be that the bearings in the engine is to tight ? could it be other causes as well ?

Re: Hard to turn engine over A ford 1929
 

Use a hand crank to check for hard engine cranking first. You will destroy your new starter if you try it much, pulling as hard as you describe. Awful hard on the battery and cables too.

Re: Hard to turn engine over A ford 1929
 

How easy is it to turn with a hand crank?

Make sure your starter bolts are not to long, its a very common mistake people make.. They will rub the flywheel making the engine hard to turn

Try cranking it with the ignition key off, see if it helps.. this will eliminate timing / spark / ignition issue...

As mentioned by Vince forget about a Valve stuck closed..that issue could also take out a fiber style timing gear, but more likely to get forced and stuck open as Synchro909 mentioned

Just mentioning some more things to ponder

Re: Hard to turn engine over A ford 1929
 

Show us some good pictures of your battery cables, I am betting they are not heavy enough. Gary

Re: Hard to turn engine over A ford 1929
 

I agree 12 volt cables on 6 volt

Re: Hard to turn engine over A ford 1929
 

Timing too advanced, and cables too small are two good things to check.

Also check that the starter switch 4 mounting screws aren't too long and shorting the field coils.

The screws are 10-32 x 5/16", so don't use 3/8", which is what hardware stores would have.

Re: Hard to turn engine over A ford 1929
 

Once the car is running and you take it for a drive does the engine run and pull normally? I believe you need to decide whether the problem is to do with the mechanicals in the engine or the electrical system up to and including the starter.

Re: Hard to turn engine over A ford 1929
 

He said it bump starts easy,immediately, or sumthing like that! My guess new 12 battery cables. When my starter mounted switch quit, it shot out sparks, no smoke! Anyone know how to put sparks back in wiring? I know how to put smoke back in wires :-) When i was a teen working for dad, we had to date stamp new batteries, the number stamps where on a metal ring and i made the ring mad at me, it got soooo mad it turned red and burnt my fingers, only once!

Re: Hard to turn engine over A ford 1929
 

As you say, you guess. All I was suggesting was he made this diagnosis so he knows. Knowing always trumps a guess.

Re: Hard to turn engine over A ford 1929
 

cables..............

Re: Hard to turn engine over A ford 1929
 

I have seen many stock A's with no extra grounds and 12v cables crank fine.. im not saying i recommend ever going that route just mentioning my experiences.
And yes i replaced them all with the proper gauge cables

Re: Hard to turn engine over A ford 1929
 

Nothing makes sense here. Use to start 2 weeks ago. Now new starter and cables, and cranks slowly. Hard to crank by hand. Like I said, pull the plugs and see how it hand cranks. How does the oil look and water level. Process of elimination. Hum.

Re: Hard to turn engine over A ford 1929
 

Put a new 6v battery cable and a heavy ground strap. Before you connect the ground strap (Pos) to the frame get another 6V cable with two bolt ends (not battery ends). Throughly clean the area where the ground strap is connected. Bolt the ground strap and the auxiliary ground cable to the frame and connect the end of the auxiliary to say, one of the flywheel housing bolts, starter bolts, as long as it's on the eng. I put one of these on each of my three cars and I find that they crank a little faster and the batteries keep their charge longer while cranking.
Terry

Re: Hard to turn engine over A ford 1929
 

When a part gets hot and starts to smoke, it can be caused by high resistance or by too many amps running through the wire for it's size. Since you bought two new cables, I hope you got the correct size, but like Mitch said, I've also seen 12 volt cables work OK. These cables are fairly short, so you should have very little line loss.

You mention hard to crank, so you need to determine if you have a mechanical problem with the engine. How hard is it to hand crank as compared to another similar Model A engine?

Have you checked the starter switch screws length (5/16") to make sure they aren't too long and shorting the fields?

A tight engine or a short in the starter will make the starter draw too many amps and heat the cable.
We need feedback from the owner, or it will be a lot more guessing.

Re: Hard to turn engine over A ford 1929
 

The OP is MIA

Re: Hard to turn engine over A ford 1929
 

Exactly. Then, if it's not tight look at the electrical side.

Re: Hard to turn engine over A ford 1929
 

He checked the site at 10:41 today.

Re: Hard to turn engine over A ford 1929
 

It seems the same things are being repeated over and over

Re: Hard to turn engine over A ford 1929
 

The electronic ignition module is very sensitive to low voltage. If the starter is drawing to much current, or if there is a resistance in the starter circuit, the voltage will drop below the threshold and you will not be getting any spark during starting. The car will start fine with a push start as there is no voltage drop from the starter. The only time that I have had a problem with my electronic ignition was on New Years eve last year. We were on a tour with our club and the cars spent the night out side in sub freezing temperatures. I could only start my car with a push start until it was warmed up. If you are having difficulty it could simply be low voltage. If your battery is cold, near or below freezing, it will produce much less power and will have a much higher voltage drop.
Hope this helps
Bill

Re: Hard to turn engine over A ford 1929
 

I have taken the starter switch apart and cleaned everything for good conection, it looks good.Both battery cables brand News fastened directly to the starter.losend waterpump scrue in case it was making tge camscaft hold back, New battery, losend the scrues which holds the starter switch in case they was to loong, losened the main bearings and tighten when I saw it made no difference, New 10-40 mineral oil.cleaned the valves With w40. handcranked With ignition of, With sparkplugs out it was fairly easy, but With sparkplugs in Heavy to turn. My battey cables are medium size, My starter is now tested With in another Ford model A and it worked just fine, but in my car it hardly turns.I am running out of ideas, will try to pull it to start and drive it for a while to see if something losen up ? I was told that I could try a 12 volt battery if I dont crank to loong, but would that damage my 6 volt Electronic ignition and coil that I just put in ? Thanks for all good advice so fare !

Re: Hard to turn engine over A ford 1929
 

.you took the pan off and loosened and retightened the main bearings?
What is the wire gauge #. Medium size is too open ended.

Re: Hard to turn engine over A ford 1929
 

Have you done a voltage drop test on all the cables? Maybe a new cable has a bad crimp at one of the ends, causing high resistance. Try cranking for about 10-15 seconds, then immediately fee for a warm/hot spot along the cables and at the cable ends. Also the starter and switch. Read the current draw with an inductive ammeter and compare with an A that starts properly. Do the same with a volt meter while cranking and compare.

Re: Hard to turn engine over A ford 1929
 

After changing the battery/ground cables They dont smoke anymore, just the starter engine get hot/smokes when cranked to loong, due to to much resistance mechanicly somewhere I believe, will check everything again tomorrow and try tio drive it a bit to see if it cranks easier, it puls and run strong when first started by pulling to start, Climbs jhills fine, but will adjust advance timing corectly withj special key made for that , ignition is Electronic. hard to hand crank when sparkplugs are in.

Re: Hard to turn engine over A ford 1929
 

Yes took of pan and cleaned it and tested the bearing, not to tight ! I put 12 volt battery cables in the car, there is one size thicker cables, but they are not loong enough ,the ones I use is same as most 12 volt cars use in thickness.

Re: Hard to turn engine over A ford 1929
 

If the car has a six volt battery it needs the correct cables, those for a twelve volt system will not do. Is the electronic ignition six volt too? It should be. If everything is six volt do not link it to a twelve volt battery.

Re: Hard to turn engine over A ford 1929
 

Buy the battery cables from a Model A parts house, and you will have good cables.
Have you tried cranking the engine with the key off?
If the timing is advanced during cranking, it will fight the starter and make it hard to turn over.