Cranks but no start
 

I have been having this issue for abit now and I have asked on here before. I can get the engine to crank but no start. I do not have spark at the plugs. I have new plugs, new wires, new cap, new rotor, new condenser, and new points set at .015". It's a 6 volt positive groumd on a 53 mercury with the flathead. I seem to loose power to the circuit breakers and fuses as soon as I hook the wire from the negative side of the start solenoid that runs through the ammeter to the 30 amp circuit breaker. If I unhool it I get my power to the ignition switch back. That wire needs to be hooked up in order for the car to crank though. Thanks for the help, it is my first time dealing with a system like this and have had it explained to me, I just still get confused because wiring is by no means my strong suit

Re: Cranks but no start
 

Here's a diagram of a '53 with all bells and whistles. I don't see any fuses.

http://www.vanpeltsales.com/FH_web/F...ng1953merc.jpg

Lonnie

Re: Cranks but no start
 

Binx's diagrams should help. I'm not specifically familiar with the '53s and not sure by your description, but it sounds like maybe a bad Ignition Switch or a wiring mix-up.

(1) The ignition switch is always actively linked to the battery via a shared bolted terminal at the Circuit Breaker. So when the switch is turned on, the coil gets connected to the battery and can fire the distributor and spark plugs, thus starting the engine.

(2) The starter will operate when you activate the starter side of the switch .... it grounds the starter solenoid allowing the starter motor to operate.

Both of these operations must occur simultaneously. The battery must always feed the shared terminal at the Circuit Breaker, the the ignition switch must connect to it there.

So it almost sounds like (1) the Ignition Switch is not performing those two required functions, OR (2) the wiring is not correct.

Here's a test of the switch: Using a test wire, by-pass the ignition switch from a battery feed directly to the coil. Hit the starter. If that works the switch is apparently defective.

Re: Cranks but no start
 

This is one of the 3 wiring diagrams I have used, and it does have two 14 amp fuses and 3 circuit breakers. Not sure how I can wire it wrong if I have it wired exactly how it is in the diagram

Re: Cranks but no start
 

Luke

Send me an e mail and will set up a call to try and give you some test points to diagnose the trouble.

[email protected]

Wait to hear,

Tom

Re: Cranks but no start
 

Luke, Has your car had the original Mercury push button starter switch replaced with a more modern combination ignition KEY start switch ? Regards, Kevin.

Re: Cranks but no start
 

Several things, Luke, not to dispair.
1. Initially one checks for spark at the spark ignition coil center wire, not at the spark plugs.
2. Your battery should be permanently connected to the ammeter (step 1). Verify this with a test light. If you don't have a test light, stop everything and get one (a necessity about the price of a hamburger)... become comfortable with it by connecting its long wire to ground, connect the battery and poke hither and yon and observe. Toss the voltmeter to your grandkids. For now anyway.
3. (step 2) Verify that the other side of the ammeter is be permanently connected to the ignition switch through the breaker assembly. Verify this using the test light.
4. When you turn on the key, test test light should indicate voltage at the ignition coil side wire.
5. Factoid correction to post 3 item 2 ... a '53 starter button has voltage permanently running to it. This voltage is applied to the starter solenoid when you press the center with your thumb. Note the center push part of YOUR start button should be black plastic. Pressing the button on a '53 Merc applies voltage (not ground) to the small connection of your starter solenoid. Earlier cars do apply ground and their push element is chrome (but not yours). Ask me how I know. No don't, I'm troubleshooting an intermittent pb on my '50 Merc (with a chrome button) as we speak.

Complete your assignment and report back for your next round of 'Let's get this thing on the road' once and forever. Carry on soldier.

Incidentally, you should be connecting and disconnecting power at the negative battery post not hooking wires here and there. Until you are running, disconnect the battery while not troubleshooting. Save the electrons.

Re: Cranks but no start
 

Nope everything is original on this car as far as switches. The ammeter doesn't have connectors for wires on the back its just got a loop the wire runs through. So it goes from the battery side of the start solenoid to the ammeter loops and through to the breaker board under the dash. But as soon as I hook that up to where the diagram tells me I lose power to everything connected to the board

Re: Cranks but no start
 

So this is what I got going, just for the ignition system and start button. Yes I know it's a mess but this is just for testing right now. The 12 gauge wire off the batter is the one that's suppose to run though the loop on the ammeter to the 30 amp circuit breaker. Then i have the ignition switch run to the - side of the coil and another wire to the 15 amp circuit breaker. The + side of the coil is hooked to the distributor. And the push button is hooked to the start solenoid and to the 15 amp circuit breaker that the switch is hooked to. And like I said before I have power to all the studs on the back of the ignition switch and to all the circuit breakers and fuses until I hook up that wire that goes through the ammeter loop to the breaker, but without it hooked up the engine won't crank.

Re: Cranks but no start
 

So where is the board getting its power from when the wire to the battery side of the solenoid is disconnected?

Bob

Re: Cranks but no start
 

It's getting its power through the distributor since its positive ground, that's why I'm getting so confused and frustrated because I have never felt with a positive ground before and it doesn't make sense that the wire through the ammeter is hooked up to the battery side of the start solenoid since that's a - side, but that's the only way the start button works

Re: Cranks but no start
 

It's not getting power from the distributor, positive ground has nothing to do with it.
The only way you may see power at the distributor is if the points are open and the
ignition is on then you will see power on one side of the points, you will loose this when the points close. There is nothing mystical or magical about positive ground.

Bob

Re: Cranks but no start
 

Well as soon as the battery is hooked up I can put a test light to the wire that's suppose to go from the distributor to the coil and then I have power, then when I hook it to the coil I have power on both sides of the coil, then when I hook up the ignition switch to the wire to the coil I have power to the coil post on the switch even when the key is on the floor of the car, and if I turn the key to the right I have power at all posts and at the circuit breakers. But then I hook up the ammeter wire from the battery side of the start solenoid to the circuit breaker and lose all power, then if I take the key out or turn it to the right I have power at only the coil post on the switch.

Re: Cranks but no start
 

And if I hook up the battery and that's it I can put a test light to a spark plug in the head and the test light lights up.

Re: Cranks but no start
 

When you hook up your test light were do you have the alligator clip connected?

Bob

Re: Cranks but no start
 

I have the alligator clip straight at the - battery terminal

Re: Cranks but no start
 

Well there's the problem, should be on the + terminal that goes to the chassis ground.:eek:

Bob

Re: Cranks but no start
 

Ok so I flipped the test light to the + side and I have power to the coil from the switch and power at the circuit board, I do not have power to the + of the coil to the distributor though, and I literally just ran down to Napa and got another new coil, this is number 3. I still have no spark

Re: Cranks but no start
 

You shouldn't, the wire from the distributor supplies the ground from the
points to the coil +. The ignition switch supplies the power to the coil -.

Bob

Re: Cranks but no start
 

Ok so why dont I have spark? Coil, condenser, points, cap, wires, plugs are all new. If I take a plug wire from the cap and plug it into the coil and have my spark tester hooked to the wire and the plug I still have no spark.

Re: Cranks but no start
 

Sounds like a problem in the distributor. Take the wire from the distributor off the
coil, stick a piece of paper between the points then put the probe of your test light
on the wire from the distributor(alligator clip still on the battery -) if it lights you have a short in the distributor.

Re: Cranks but no start
 

Luke, You need to get your head around this POS ground system. The POSITIVE battery terminal is connected to the chassis, body, ground RETURN for the whole electrical system. The NEGATIVE battery terminal is the insulated POWER SUPPLY for all electrical components in your car. When testing for POWER on an electrical component with your test light the alligator clip on the wire goes to a good ground on the engine block or the chassis or the body metal. The test light probe goes to the power supply terminal on the component you are testing to see if it has power. You have been connecting your test light incorrectly. The negative terminal on the ignition coil connects to the ignition switch output supply when the key is ON. The POSITIVE marked terminal on the coil connects to the distributer contacts which ground the coil when the contacts are closed ONLY. To test to see if the distributer contacts are working correctly do this test. Connect the alligator clip of your test light to the coil POSITIVE terminal. Connect the probe of your test light to the coil NEGATIVE terminal. Turn ignition key ON and test light will only light up if the distributer contacts are CLOSED. Press starter button and crank engine over which should cause the test light to flash ON and OFF as the distributer contacts close and open. If the test light is not flashing when engine is cranked then there is a possible problem with the dist contacts not grounding the coil primary circuit. All your 3 ignition coils are probably OK. Get back to us. Regards, Kevin.

Re: Cranks but no start
 

So I put the clip on the + coil side and the probe on the - coil side with key on and it is lit up. When I crank the engine it just stays lit, no flashing on and off

Re: Cranks but no start
 

Well there you go, the points are not working. They are either not opening/closing (always staying closed) or shorted to ground. The short to ground is the most likely issue. As suggested above, try putting paper or something between the points to insulate them and see if it still lights up. If it does there is a short.

Re: Cranks but no start
 

I put a piece of paper in just now and if I have the clip on the - side of the battery it lights up, if I have it on the positive side of the battery it doesn't? So if it's positive ground do I hook the clip to the test light to the positive side of the battery?

Re: Cranks but no start
 

And would the short be one of the 2 wires inside the distributor possibly?

Re: Cranks but no start
 

I'm getting lost at what you are doing now. Are we talking continuity tester or voltage tester here? What happened to the test between the (+) side of the coil and the (-) side of the coil?

You seem to be getting confused about what is going on here. If you are checking from the points themselves to the (-) battery post that would be a path for current to flow from the battery to ground and would indicate a short, and yes would most likely be the wires inside the distributor. When you start checking from the points to the (+) post on the battery that's when you lose me. Why would you check from ground to ground? There is no current source involved and nothing to really check there????

Re: Cranks but no start
 

Well that's were I get confused, if I hook my test light up to the - battery terminal and touch the probe to the wire off the bottom distributor with a piece of paper in the points the test light lights up. But if I take a test light and put it to a spark plug in the head, the test light also lights up. This is where I get confused, because if I unhook the wire from the distributor to the + side of coil as long as the distributor is in the block I have power to that wire with my test light hooked to the - battery terminal.

Re: Cranks but no start
 

long as the distributor is in the block I have power to that wire with my test light hooked to the - battery terminal.

You don't have power to that wire you have a short or path to ground.
It sounds like the wire or points are grounded.

Re: Cranks but no start
 

Check out the pictures posted on this link and read what Bubba found.
http://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showth...ght=load+matic

Bob

Re: Cranks but no start
 

Luke, can you take several nice clear (sharp) close up photos of the inside of the distributer. Something seems to be wrong in there. I guess you have set the points gap correctly by making sure the fibre rubbing block is resting on the lobe (high spot) of the cam when you set the gap. If there is a ground wire inside the dist it could have been connected on to the points terminal instead of the baseplate. Regards, Kevin.

Re: Cranks but no start
 

I did replace the 2 wires inside earlier today, I am gonna tear it completely apart and clean everything up better

Re: Cranks but no start
 

Some basic questions:

With the distributor in the block, does the rotor turn when you crank the engine?

Have you set the gap correctly?

With the distributor out of the engine, use an ohm meter to measure resistance between the terminal where the wire from the coil connects and the metal case of the distributor.

Then turn the rotor by hand until the cam follower is on a flat of the cam. The ohm meter should read very close to 0 ohms.

Then turn the rotor by hand until the cam follower is on a high point of the cam. The ohm meter should now read infinity (open circuit).

I once had a distributor that had an internal partial short such that the last test read about 1000 ohms rather than infinity. That was a definite no start.

Re: Cranks but no start
 

The rotor does turn when I crank the engine and I set the point gap at .015" . I will try the ohm reading and see what happens

Re: Cranks but no start
 

A verry simple and basic test for spark at the points, and one that I use, is just to remove the dist cap and with the ignition switch on and points closed, short them out with a screw driver. If all is well you will see a spark. If no spark, then there is a break in the circuit somewhere back to the coil. I had to replace the wire from coil to distributor on my 52 as the old insulation was bared enough to short out intermittently.

Re: Cranks but no start
 

I would try hot wiring from the battery- to the - post on the coil then try to start it. If it starts the problem is in the wiring, if it doesn't start the problem is in the ignition system.

Re: Cranks but no start
 

Wow Luke you have been blessed with a ton of great info we can all use. I know you will get it worked out. Don't get discouraged, and thanks for opening this subject so we can all learn. Love this forum!

Re: Cranks but no start
 

So I tested the ohms from the wire that hooks up to the coil from the distributor to the distributor case with the distributor out of the vehicle. With the points closed on the flat of the cam I get 000.1 ohms and with the points open on high part of cam I get 000.0 ohms. I tried to short the points with a screwdriver driver and nothing happened. I checked the wires in the distributor for bare wire or anything and can't find anything wrong.

Re: Cranks but no start
 

Greg58 - good comment. Will indicate whether Ignition Switch or wiring faulty.

Re: Cranks but no start
 

With the ohm meter connected to the distributor wire on one lead and the other lead grounded to the distributor housing, there should be a reading of 1 with the points open. It sounds like the distributor is shorted internally.